NCO Program Launched

[CAPAPRN]

AFI34-1201 4 OCTOBER 2006
Chapter 8
CUSTOMS AND COURTESIEs
8.2. Other Marks of Respect.
8.2.1. Juniors shall show deference to seniors at all times by recognizing their presence and by employing
a courteous and respectful bearing and mode of speech toward them.

e.g. "Good afternoon SMSgt Jones"  therefore "Good afternoon sir" became easier. There is no AFI stating NCO's are to be addressed as Sir/Ma'am.

[AirAux]

Never seen it, never heard it.

e.g. "Good afternoon SMSgt Jones"  therefore "Good afternoon Sargeant" became easier.

The whole idea of our concept is that "They" don't want to be officers.  Traditionally Sir refers to officer.  (And would therefore be an insult to our bonafide NCO's that are insisting on adding an NCO corps to CAP.)

[NCRblues]

Happens every day on active duty AF. Sir or ma'am to SSGT and above.

Even the TI's at basic are called sir/ma'am

[SarDragon]

Oh, basic is a whole different ball game. Special arena, special rules.

[NCRblues]

Oh, basic is a whole different ball game. Special arena, special rules.

Ok, let me put it this way.

In the 3 commands I was assigned to plus in basic and in tech school, all the NCO's (including when I made SSGT) was called sir/ma'am.

Now, maybe those 3 units in 3 different MAJCOMS was doing things wrong but...

[SarDragon]

Oh, basic is a whole different ball game. Special arena, special rules.

Ok, let me put it this way.

In the 3 commands I was assigned to plus in basic and in tech school, all the NCO's (including when I made SSGT) was called sir/ma'am.

Now, maybe those 3 units in 3 different MAJCOMS was doing things wrong but...

I'm agreeing with you, while pointing out that, for all services, what happens at basic can be different from the real world.

[ColonelJack]

Really, Air Force NCO's are called sir/ma'am, really?
You wouldn't have a cite for that because I was never called sir except by accident. And that was because I was wearing a flight suit on an AETC base.

They sure are called "sir" during basic training.  It's the first word out of your mouth whenever you talk to a TI.

Memories ...

Jack

[JC004]

[Storm Chaser]

Really, Air Force NCO's are called sir/ma'am, really?
You wouldn't have a cite for that because I was never called sir except by accident. And that was because I was wearing a flight suit on an AETC base.

It's an Air Force custom; I don't believe it's spelled out in any AFI. I've been in the Air Force for over 17 years both as an officer and NCO and it's always been perfectly acceptable to call an NCO "sir" or "ma'am". In fact, I remembered being yelled at by a SrA when I first enlisted because I didn't call her "ma'am". In the Air Force, you don't usually hear anyone being called just plain "sergeant". It's more common to be called "Sgt Smith" or "Sgt Jones", than just "sergeant".

[AirAux]

So, if real active duty NCO's want to be called Sir, why is there a problem with them being officers in CAP and rightfully being called Sir?  Whatever happened to NCO pride and the old, "Don't call me Sir, I work for a living"??

[Grumpy]

So, if real active duty NCO's want to be called Sir, why is there a problem with them being officers in CAP and rightfully being called Sir?  Whatever happened to NCO pride and the old, "Don't call me Sir, I work for a living"??

What ever happened to calling someone Sir or Ma'am out of simple politeness or respect?  Wow!  What a novel idea.

[a2capt]

That whole line of "I work for a living" disgusts me.
Everyone is there to work, everyone has a function, together, everyone advances.

[AirAux]

Whatever happened to NCO pride and the old, "Don't call me Sir, I work for a living"??

Hey, I didn't make it up, NCO's did and I heard it many times in the military..  All work for a living, but not all carry an M-4 to work..

Further heritage notes "Sir" is a connotation of title, such as knighthood.  Not necessarily used by the rank and file.  Also, CAP Cadets do not refer to CAP Cadet NCO's as Sir. 

I guess we can make it optional, like, "So help me God" at USAFA..   Why have customs, courtesies, or tradition in the military anyhow??  I am so glad I was old school military, so help me God!!

[Storm Chaser]

Also, CAP Cadets do not refer to CAP Cadet NCO's as Sir. 

Many cadets learn this at encampment and other similar activities. I suspect this comes from prior service members from other services. When I was a cadet, we had a C/Lt Col and C/Maj who were both in the Army National Guard. They incorporated many Army themes into our cadet training. A couple of years later, we had a Marine Reservist and he did the same thing, incorporating Marine themes into our training.

Why else would we wear a reverse flag on our BDUs? The Air Force doesn't, so I suspect whoever came up with the idea was looking at the Army BDU/ACU.

[lordmonar]

Speaking for myself I had a hard time originally being called Sir, it's a hard habit after serving as an NCO for 30plus years.

That is simply a personal issue, and should have zero effect on how CAP conducts any form of business.

CAP is the Air Force Auxiliary, not the Army aux or the Navy or the Corps. We follow the AF traditions, and in the AF NCO's are called sir/ma'am.

I see this as becoming an issue with sister service NCO's coming in and demanding the "Army/navy/corps way of doing things" and that is unacceptable.

Really, Air Force NCO's are called sir/ma'am, really?
You wouldn't have a cite for that because I was never called sir except by accident. And that was because I was wearing a flight suit on an AETC base.

I called all my NCO's Sir/Ma'am except maybe the chief.
Day one at BMTS it was "Sir! Airman Harris Reports"!

[lordmonar]

So, if real active duty NCO's want to be called Sir, why is there a problem with them being officers in CAP and rightfully being called Sir?  Whatever happened to NCO pride and the old, "Don't call me Sir, I work for a living"??

I hate that joke and I yelled at all my peers who told it.   It only teaches the airman to disrespect the officers.

[DennisH]

I can't speak for all old Army NCOs but telling someone don't call me Sir, I work for a living was always a joke shared up close and personal and never near the wrong ears. Some folks need to be very aware of what they say , to whom and who is listening. Others need to lighten up and enjoy some humor before they implode. I had a young Soldier who was flustered call a CPT "Sergeant" without missing a beat the CPT said " Do I look like I have the IQ of a rock? I am a commissioned officer not someone whose parents were brother and sister"  I laughed, the PVT apologized and moved off never to are that mistake again.
Some folks wear their rank and others are their rank.

[Grumpy]

So, if real active duty NCO's want to be called Sir, why is there a problem with them being officers in CAP and rightfully being called Sir?  Whatever happened to NCO pride and the old, "Don't call me Sir, I work for a living"??

I hate that joke and I yelled at all my peers who told it.   It only teaches the airman to disrespect the officers.

Not to mention the fact that you're correcting them for using everyday common courtesy.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Whatever happened to NCO pride and the old, "Don't call me Sir, I work for a living"??

Hey, I didn't make it up, NCO's did and I heard it many times in the military..  All work for a living, but not all carry an M-4 to work..

Further heritage notes "Sir" is a connotation of title, such as knighthood.  Not necessarily used by the rank and file.  Also, CAP Cadets do not refer to CAP Cadet NCO's as Sir. 

I guess we can make it optional, like, "So help me God" at USAFA..   Why have customs, courtesies, or tradition in the military anyhow??  I am so glad I was old school military, so help me God!!

What's the problem with "So help me god" at the AFA?

[Grumpy]

"They" are working on removing it from the honor code.