NCO Program Launched

[Luis R. Ramos]

But USAF was starting to change it to an uniform thread!

Go ahead, USAF, tell us! I am hanging onto my sofa. Tell us, why did they think you were a cop? What happened over the next two days?!!

Flyer

[jeders]

This thread seems to be malfunctioning because it hasn't become a uniform thread yet.  Are you people ill?

Well, if we use Eclipse's line of reasoning, this whole program is nothing but a uniform issue. So it's kind of a uniform thread in disguise.

But USAF was starting to change it to an uniform thread!

Go ahead, USAF, tell us! I am hanging onto my sofa. Tell us, why did they think you were a cop? What happened over the next two days?!!

Flyer

Yes, please do.

[Eclipse]

This thread seems to be malfunctioning because it hasn't become a uniform thread yet.  Are you people ill?

So, what are the NCO stripes gonna look like?

(There you go.)

They will be similar to the USAF stripes but have a prop instead of a star and sat "CAP" - most likely identical to those "test"
stripes we saw a few years ago that I can't find the photo of.

[MacGruff]

On my way home from a meeting I stopped for gas. The gas station owner and the shoplifting kid both assumed I was a cop, leading to a hilarious chain of events that played out over the next two days.

Well?

Are you going to roll out the whole story?

Maybe in a new thread???

[Майор Хаткевич]

This thread seems to be malfunctioning because it hasn't become a uniform thread yet.  Are you people ill?

But USAF was starting to change it to an uniform thread!

Go ahead, USAF, tell us! I am hanging onto my sofa. Tell us, why did they think you were a cop? What happened over the next two days?!!

Flyer

Yes, please do.

At a computer, so I can type this whole saga up.

I was on the way home after the meeting, and running on empty. Not wanting to pump gas in the morning when it is freezing, I went to the closest gas station to my house. But on the way, the wife gave me a call, and since we hadn't eaten dinner, she said to stop by McDonalds for some Crispy Chicken Southwest Salads (Yum!). So I had to reroute to a gas station that was not on the way, but a quarter mile past my home. Pulled into drive through, and they told me it would be a few minutes for the salads. Told them I'm going to go get gas and walk in to pick up the order (this is a McShell gas station). To get into the McDonalds I had to go through the station, and while walking in noticed the owner talking to a kid, asking him "where you live", etc. Figured kid was busted trying to steal, but none of my business. This is where the story really begins.

The owner turned to me (wearing BBDUs, with Field Jacket, nothing on it but name/CAP tapes, grade/CAP cutouts and the flag), and asked me what to do. "Kid says his parents kicked him out from home". So I asked him, how old is he, was told 15. Asked him where he lives, was told next town over. Knowing that no shelter will take a minor, and parents can't kick out a minor, I told the owner to call the local PD and they would take him home (or hand off to the PD in the next town). This is where I made my mistake. I believed the store owner did his due diligence.  He said he won't get the kid in trouble for trying to steal, said he has a "one strike" get out of free card. Nice guy, really. I got my food, and took it back to the car/finished pumping gas. In the mean time, he did what I suggested, and called the cops, even let the kid talk to the cops. I came back in, saw that the kid was holding a bag of chips, which I assumed the owner let him take. Offered to pay for the food, but the owner said he would cover it. Like I said, nice guy. I went to an ATM in the store and got some cash. Wrote my number and name on the receipt, and gave the cash/receipt to the kid, telling him to keep the money as an emergency stash, in case he gets into trouble with his parents again. Told him if he really gets into trouble, I live in the area and he can call me. Gave him the speech about not stealing, how people are usually willing to help, yadda yadda. Knowing my wife was waiting at home, I left him with the gas station owner and went home.

At home I relayed the story to my wife, and not twenty minutes later, I'm getting a call from a 224 area code (typically cellphones in our area). I look at the phone, look at my wife, and answer. On the phone is an angry woman (I thought it was kind of quick for the cops to get him home). She asked me who I was, and I asked her who was calling. She identified herself and asked how I know her son, and I was a bit dodgy saying I was just a person who ran into him at a gas station. She told me that if I don't tell her how I know her son, she would pass on my info to the police, to which I said go ahead. Realizing (I guess) that she is at an impasse, she calmed down a bit, and asked again, nicely. I told her that I was getting gas at the station, and was just a passerby. She asked me if I gave her son money, to which I said yes. Here she relayed the story.

He wasn't kicked out of home. He lives in a home about as nice as mine, in my town, and goes to my former high school. Earlier in the day, a "delinquent friend" and him stole liquor from a store, and were chased by cops through a corn field, but got away. At the time of the call, he was being held at our local PD for possession of alcohol as a minor, as well as the earlier theft, and his parent's having tried to file a missing persons report  (it's the suburbs, kid was gone for a few hours).  Here she relayed that he was telling her and the cops that a "Police officer gave me the money". Of course, like the boy who cried wolf, no one believed this kid as all the cops were looking for him that day. At first I didn't quite get why he would come up with such a dumb lie either, and then of course I looked down at what I was wearing, and briefly explained to her that while he was incorrect about who I was, I did wear a uniform and I suppose it could be confused for a PD uniform. This, to me explained why the kid looked so defeated in the convenience store. He thought he was done. I'm sure he was even more confused when I up and left the store!

I made arrangements with the mother to get my money back, and met the father last night. He told me the full story: Stole four bottles of liquor (I assume vodka), and an orange juice at a Walgreens. Went next door to a Starbucks, and got cups to drink it out of. After drinking a bottle between the two of them, they went to a Sun Foods (expensive tastes!) to steal food to eat. They almost made it out of the store, but were stopped. They dropped the food and ran out of the store. This is where the cops were called (and the Walgreens, aware of the theft had called them earlier to report it as well). FIFTEEEN cops chased these kids, some through the earlier mentioned cornfields, but lost track of them.  The cornfield was quite close to the gas station so I guess when the kids split up, his kid ended up at the gas station, and ended trying to steal there as well!

Now the most messed up part of this, was the gas station owner. While I think he's nice for not calling the cops on a first offense, he was going to let the kid go, despite HIM seeing the alcohol in the kids backpack (and smelling it on him when he was up close, talking to him), and hearing the story of him getting kicked out. He was just going to let him go. That is, until a "cop" came into the station and told him that he needs to call the police station to take the kid home. J If the kid didn't come up with that dumb lie, he would probably leave the station and either make it home, get picked up along the way, or try to go elsewhere on his little rampage.

From this episode I learned a few lessons:

I should never assume someone else did his due diligence (apparently when asked where in the next town over the kid lived, he couldn't give an answer to the store owner...red flag much?)
I'm too nice.
People really don't know a thing about uniforms, or how to read nametapes.

[Shuman 14]

As I see it now, the result of this will be:
1. Some members change insignia
2. A smaller pool of potential unit commanders
3. No appreciable effect on the average CAP squadron

Maybe the ability to attend USAF NCO professional development training courses...

Maybe the development of of CAP specific NCO professional development courses and the cooresponding NCOPD ribbon/medal...

[JC004]

As I see it now, the result of this will be:
1. Some members change insignia
2. A smaller pool of potential unit commanders
3. No appreciable effect on the average CAP squadron

Maybe the ability to attend USAF NCO professional development training courses...

Maybe the development of of CAP specific NCO professional development courses and the cooresponding NCOPD ribbon/medal...

I'd think the distance learning NCO courses would be a near certainty as part of the program.

I just don't see a massive NCO corps forming.  If the cost of adding a new ribbon with Vanguard is anything like the cost of adding a new patch to the catalog, and assuming the 6% sales kickback to CAP with a small NCO corps, I'd say it isn't worth adding a ribbon for just NCO training.  If we needed a ribbon for PD, I'd probably support the idea of a single CAP training ribbon.  Or make the Membership Ribbon into a Training Ribbon (since it's already somewhat like an AF Training Ribbon, essentially...but authorize attachments in CAP's case.  Just an idea.  I would like to make a number of revisions to the CAP ribbons, and I have some specific ideas for those - I'd like to see my consolidated awards ribbon and community service ribbon requirements, but training and levels should be addressed at some point - especially if the NCO program varies a lot on levels).

[abdsp51]

As I see it now, the result of this will be:
1. Some members change insignia
2. A smaller pool of potential unit commanders
3. No appreciable effect on the average CAP squadron

Maybe the ability to attend USAF NCO professional development training courses...

Maybe the development of of CAP specific NCO professional development courses and the cooresponding NCOPD ribbon/medal...

Does the ACA send their Adult members to Army courses?  Does the CGAux send it's member to any CG schools?  With as competitive as the AF is getting for promotions this will be highly unlikely.

[PHall]

As I see it now, the result of this will be:
1. Some members change insignia
2. A smaller pool of potential unit commanders
3. No appreciable effect on the average CAP squadron

Maybe the ability to attend USAF NCO professional development training courses...

Maybe the development of of CAP specific NCO professional development courses and the cooresponding NCOPD ribbon/medal...

Not going to frickin' happen unless CAP want's to pay for it. Those course slots are not free.

[Panache]

Maybe the ability to attend USAF NCO professional development training courses...

Maybe the development of of CAP specific NCO professional development courses and the cooresponding NCOPD ribbon/medal...

Not going to frickin' happen unless CAP want's to pay for it. Those course slots are not free.

More likely the costs will be borne by the NCO.

[abdsp51]

More likely the costs will be borne by the NCO.

Not gonna happen there is a backlog of folks to get through, so AETC is not going to open slots up for CAP.

[JC004]

More likely the costs will be borne by the NCO.

Not gonna happen there is a backlog of folks to get through, so AETC is not going to open slots up for CAP.

With CAP's already-existing authorization to take Air Force courses, for in-person courses, the rule is it can't be at the Air Force's expense and it's Space-Available.  So you're on standby for X course and it's not practical if you don't live close by (or can't fly/stay away on a whim).

[lordmonar]

ALS, NCOA and the SNCOA are all offered via distance education......so yes maybe these courses may open up for CAP NCOs.....and NO....there is very little possibility that a CAP NCO would ever go in-residence....(although as pointed out......the process is in place to make it happen....if there were a space available, and someone other then  the USAF paid for it.).

[PHall]

ALS, NCOA and the SNCOA are all offered via distance education......so yes maybe these courses may open up for CAP NCOs.....and NO....there is very little possibility that a CAP NCO would ever go in-residence....(although as pointed out......the process is in place to make it happen....if there were a space available, and someone other then  the USAF paid for it.).

ALS is not offered via Distance Education.  Even in the Guard and Reserve it's done in residence only.

[abdsp51]

I can tell you for NCOA and SNCOA there will not be space available.  There is a back ltog of TSgt's that still need to get in and the same with SNCOA there are plenty of SMSgts and MSgt's who need to get in.  Also has changed it's policy on Course 14 to you have to be a MSgt now to even enroll.  And are you really wanting to burden the academies with having to learn 39 with as jacked as it is?  How about formations when someone wearing G/W or heaven forbid the polo will stick out.  What do you do when hypothetically you have an AD SSgt who happend to be a CAP MSgt or even SMSgt going to the SNCOA does he/she get credit for it as part of their AD PME? 

Before we consider AF PME for a fledgling program let's get it off the ground first and working before trying to get any fringe benefits from ma blue. 

[lordmonar]

ALS, NCOA and the SNCOA are all offered via distance education......so yes maybe these courses may open up for CAP NCOs.....and NO....there is very little possibility that a CAP NCO would ever go in-residence....(although as pointed out......the process is in place to make it happen....if there were a space available, and someone other then  the USAF paid for it.).

ALS is not offered via Distance Education.  Even in the Guard and Reserve it's done in residence only.

http://www.ang.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123346812

[Shuman 14]

As I see it now, the result of this will be:
1. Some members change insignia
2. A smaller pool of potential unit commanders
3. No appreciable effect on the average CAP squadron

Maybe the ability to attend USAF NCO professional development training courses...

Maybe the development of of CAP specific NCO professional development courses and the cooresponding NCOPD ribbon/medal...

Does the ACA send their Adult members to Army courses?  Does the CGAux send it's member to any CG schools?  With as competitive as the AF is getting for promotions this will be highly unlikely.

Don't know what ACA is.

Yes members of the USCGAux can and do attend USCG schools quite regularly... subject to funding and space available seating at the schools themselves.

CAP Officers can attend the USAF's SLS and the Air War College correct? So why is it unlikely for the new CAP NCO Corps to attend USAF NCO courses? 

[BillB]

CAP officers can NOT attend any of the USAF schools in residence. Air War College is only offered to CAP via corrospondance. The reasons given are space availablity and many require security clearances. At the same time some of the sections of the various schools are open with permissions but credit is not given. Add to that that a college degree is required to enroll, and to many CAP members are not eligible.
The SNCOA at Tyndall AFB told me they might be able to squeeze 1 or 2 CAP NCOs in the program, but how many could afford to pay for housing and meals for the length of the Academy?

Bill Breeze
Air War College 1974

[abdsp51]

CAP Officers can attend the USAF's SLS and the Air War College correct? So why is it unlikely for the new CAP NCO Corps to attend USAF NCO courses? 

We don't have SLS we have SOS, and there is a significant cost for the PME courses.  I am sure the average member does not have the disposable funds for such a trip.

[Private Investigator]

All, as a current CAP NCO (former Navy Chief Petty Officer), and one who really wants to see this new program take off, let's look at this from another direction. I tend to agree that grade structure in a civilian volunteer organization can lead to unique situations that create difficulties, egos abound. Why have a CAP NCO program? Capturing and exploiting the unique capabilities of former and current military NCO's (senior enlisted personnel for those that don't understand the full meaning of NCO) can only be beneficial for the organization, especially when the organization has interaction with true military organizations on a regular basis. These individuals come to the CAP with very unique qualifications that don't readily surface in the civilian workplace. Why not identify, recognize these individuals, exploit there capabilities for the good of the organization and most important, provide a developmental process for their professional growth and accompanied recognition for the effort they do provide the organization. Yes, some of us don't have aspirations for command, but we provide a very valuable resource for commanders from a unique perspective gained by our military experience. Some have stated that Officers manage the process and NCO's make the process work. If you examine the current military structure, you may find that senior NCO's are now managing the process as well as making the process work.
I for one am quite proud of the military career that I am now retired from and enthusiastically look forward to continuing my tenure in the CAP as a Non-Commissioned Officer providing the best for the organization that I can, which incidentally, has NO limitations (command or otherwise) from my perspective. :clap:

Welcome aboard and thanks for sharing