Reclassification of BDU uniform

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The only changes I would make would be to the BBDU uniform:

Leather hook & loop nameplate (which the AF briefly experimented with)

Metal collar insignia (AF doesn't use it, plus it's already authorised for the BBDU cap)

With just those two things you've saved time and money on nametape, CIVIL AIR PATROL tape, and embroidered collar insignia.

[Garibaldi]

The only changes I would make would be to the BBDU uniform:

Leather hook & loop nameplate (which the AF briefly experimented with)

Metal collar insignia (AF doesn't use it, plus it's already authorised for the BBDU cap)

With just those two things you've saved time and money on nametape, CIVIL AIR PATROL tape, and embroidered collar insignia.

I thought metal grade insignia was NOT authorized for the BBDU hat, only embroidered.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

No, that's the funny thing and another maddening illogic about 39-1...the only place we can wear metal grade is on the BBDU hat.

You figure it out.  I can't.

[Майор Хаткевич]

No, that's the funny thing and another maddening illogic about 39-1...the only place we can wear metal grade is on the BBDU hat.

You figure it out.  I can't.

I had cloth put on, but then when it looked like crap, ripped it off and got a metal piece.

[BSU Commander]

+1

[MKing]

Ok, here's my two cents. Yes it is true that BDU isn't as easy to find anymore, yes the AF does wear the ABU, and yes we could switch to ABU or even go straight over to the BBDU (which as said earlier in this thread is probably a good idea) The issue we have is that National has chosen to stonewall. To my knowledge the USAF has already said we can wear the ABU as far as they're concerned. But with the USAF looking at replacing ABU in favor of something such as Multicam, we might not switch for a long time. I really don't see why all the dead horses have to be beaten this way. We have a job to do, new uniform or old uniform doesn't matter. We should just be happy they let us wear a uniform. 
You may now continue beating the dead horse
-F.O. King

[Eclipse]

Yes it is true that BDU isn't as easy to find anymore,

No, it is not true, except perhaps in the limited case of cadets and a few seniors who may have been getting used surplus from unit sources
supplied from DRMO, and in a lot of those cases, because of the USAF and other services' retirement of woodland camo, many of those units, for now,
are swimming in uniforms.

For the average member, who can't spell AAFES, has never been to an MCSS, and has always obtained their uniforms through local or online sources,
there is absolutely no shortage.  Further, the way most members wear their uniforms, a set of BDUs can last ten years and still look like new.

The issue we have is that National has chosen to stonewall. To my knowledge the USAF has already said we can wear the ABU as far as they're concerned.

Cite please.  There is no indication that CAP has ever even officially made the request, let alone been denied or is stonewalling.

[RogueLeader]

But with the USAF looking at replacing ABU in favor of something such as Multicam,

Has often been said, but without evidence.  Please cite.  While multicams are worn outside the wire in A-stan, that does not mean they are going to be changing uniforms stateside.  Which is another dead horse that has been beaten.

[Ned]

The issue we have is that National has chosen to stonewall.

Excuse me? 

Did you just say that National has "delayed or blocked a request by refusing to answer questions or giving evasive replies"?

Really?

On what do you base this assertion?

Which of the hard working volunteers or professional staff at National has treated our members so disprespectfully?  Please tell me.

Or were you just accusing our leaders of unethical behavior without any basis beyond rumor and speculation?

The next time you bemoan the fact that our "best and brightest" do not seem to aspire to national leadership, reflect that at least one small part of that might be because our leadership is forced to endure these kinds of public and painful accusations by members.

To my knowledge the USAF has already said we can wear the ABU as far as they're concerned.

That's odd.  The last four or five times I spoke with the CAP-USAF commander on this topic that is not what he said.  I wonder where the miscommunication lies.

The AF position is that CAP wear of the ABU is specifically prohibited by DoD policy.  The AF has encouraged us to request a waiver from the Office of the Secretary of Defense, and I personally believe that the AF will be supportive of our request, but the packet is still being put together by CAP staffers.


Ned Lee

[Walkman]

Ned, I've just gotta' say I love it when you swoop into a thread like this and hit the facts.  :clap:

(edit for typo)

[JeffDG]

Ned, I've just gotta' say I love it when you swoop into a thread like this and hit the facts.  :clap:

(edit for typo)

Facts are meaningless.  I mean, you can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true.  Facts schmacts.
-Homer J. Simpson

[Critical AOA]

Dang... it is amazing how someone can make their first post ever one that gets such a forceful slap down.   

[RiverAux]

The AF position is that CAP wear of the ABU is specifically prohibited by DoD policy.  The AF has encouraged us to request a waiver from the Office of the Secretary of Defense, and I personally believe that the AF will be supportive of our request, but the packet is still being put together by CAP staffers.

Hmm, this appears to be new information.  I think most of us here were under the impression that the AF had total independent control over this issue and that it would only take an ok from them to authorize CAP to wear AF-style uniforms. 

Is this an existing generic DoD policy that prohibits others from wearing DoD uniforms that CAP has always gotten waivers from in regards to AF-style uniforms?  Or is this something new?

[Майор Хаткевич]

Dang... it is amazing how someone can make their first post ever one that gets such a forceful slap down.   

Online forums have existed in their current for for at least 10 years now. Forum etiquette would lead to one SEARCHING for said topic, which would find many an answer. 

[SARDOC]

The AF position is that CAP wear of the ABU is specifically prohibited by DoD policy.  The AF has encouraged us to request a waiver from the Office of the Secretary of Defense, and I personally believe that the AF will be supportive of our request, but the packet is still being put together by CAP staffers.

Hmm, this appears to be new information.  I think most of us here were under the impression that the AF had total independent control over this issue and that it would only take an ok from them to authorize CAP to wear AF-style uniforms. 

Is this an existing generic DoD policy that prohibits others from wearing DoD uniforms that CAP has always gotten waivers from in regards to AF-style uniforms?  Or is this something new?

This was published quite some time ago and found a blurb on CAP Knowledgebase.  I think it's an absolutely a BULLSTINK excuse since the DoD or the USAF doesn't provide Civil Air Patrol with the Field Uniforms anyway and we get them from various outside vendors and that doesn't change.  We can still buy the new pattern from BDU.com like we do with BDUs now.  That being said.  I don't think we should go to ABU's anyway, I just think their excuse is terrible.  Just come out and say it's a terrible uniform and we aren't doing it.  I think our Emergency Services Teams should all be wearing the BBDU.  Personal Opinion that if we are playing with Civilian ES folks we should at least look like Civilian ES folks.

December 2011   Wear of the Airman's Battle Uniform (ABU): DoD policy prevents the transfer, donation, and sale of digitized camouflage pattern uniforms to anyone outside the USAF with very few exceptions. Unfortunately Civil Air Patrol is not one of the exceptions. This prohibition is necessary to protect the unique technologies used in developing the uniform.  The National Board has placed a hold on all uniform changes pending a review of the entire CAP uniform structure. This review is ongoing by the CAP National Uniform Committee and a draft report will be presented to the Summer National Board Meeting in Baltimore in August 2012. The presentation will be available online via webstream but all CAP members are encouraged to attend.   

[SARDOC]

The AF position is that CAP wear of the ABU is specifically prohibited by DoD policy.  The AF has encouraged us to request a waiver from the Office of the Secretary of Defense, and I personally believe that the AF will be supportive of our request, but the packet is still being put together by CAP staffers.

Hi Ned,

Is it the policy that we can not wear the ABU?  The Statement issued by the Civil Air Patrol stated that "DoD policy prevents the transfer, donation, and sale of digitized camouflage pattern uniforms to anyone outside the USAF with very few exceptions. "

That would seem to conflict.  Nobody is asking the Air Force to transfer, donate or sell the digitized camouflage uniforms...we are just asking for permission to wear.  Individual members would still be responsible to purchase their own uniforms outside of AAFES (that might be considered DoD sale) 

Like I said in the above post I still disagree with the wear of ABU's, my issue is the reasoning provided is flawed. 

My vote is BBDU's for everybody.

[RiverAux]

SARDOC --- I read the KB statement the same way you do. 

[ranviper]

My vote is BBDU's for everybody.

Mine too. Civilian Law Enforcement use it, why not Civilian ES?

BDU's are stupid to have in the woods whilst TRYING to be seen. And, they look stupid with bright BLUE name tapes.

Sure the USCG uses it, so does the USCG aux, other parts of the military, law enforcement agencies, and so on. Any type of BDU pattern is likely going to be used somewhere, so that's no excuse not to use them. BBDU's just makes sense.

[PHall]

My vote is BBDU's for everybody.

Mine too. Civilian Law Enforcement use it, why not Civilian ES?

BDU's are stupid to have in the woods whilst TRYING to be seen. And, they look stupid with bright BLUE name tapes.

Sure the USCG uses it, so does the USCG aux, other parts of the military, law enforcement agencies, and so on. Any type of BDU pattern is likely going to be used somewhere, so that's no excuse not to use them. BBDU's just makes sense.

If you were wearing your required orange vest over your BDU's while you were in those woods, you would be seen.

[SARDOC]

I just think Blue BDU's make us fit better with the professional ES crowd than looking like some kind of Militia.  We Don't need Camouflage which  the entire purpose is to conceal.  It's not even the uniform of our parent service anymore as they have long since abandoned it. So either Uniform we wear it's not the uniform of our parent service.  We should look to the future mission of the Civil Air Patrol and get a Uniform that everyone can wear so we look like the team that we should be.