Re The wear of Berets and Cords

[Abby.L]

In regards to the berets, this is true. The only color authorized is the dark blue offered by Vanguard, and may only be worn after completion of National Blue Beret(With appropriate device) or at the authorization of the wing king. If a unit wants to wear a beret as their "Unit ballcap," this would not be acceptable.

That is not the only source of the Blue Beret.

With cords, that's a different matter. The white cord is for Color Guards and whatnot(CAPM39-1 says NCC wing winners only, but 52-16 states that squadron color guards may wear it. My unit follows the latter). There is a huge flame war regarding that aspect, so be aware. The silver cord is only for unit Honor Guards(At the discretion of the unit commander) and those who have graduated from National Honor Guard Academy. Other than that, there are Kelly Green, Scarlet, Ultramarine blue(If I'm not correct) and non-metallic gold cords that are for group-level, wing-level, region-level, and national Cadet advisory councils, respectively. Also, numerous colors/styles of cords may be authorized by the wing king for different purposes. If your squadron uses a cord to denote a staff position, that is one example. Florida has the Honor Cadet thing(No clue what it is  ) that's of the same idea. Squadron position cords shouldn't be worn outside of the squadron, and wing cords(Florida, for example) shouldn't be worn outside of the wing.

This is all found in 39-1 and 52-16

EDIT:
Cadets are the only ones allowed to wear cords. Senior Members are not allowed cords of any sort.

I highlighted the wrong portions of your post.
[/quote]

I'm just gonna take that in stride, and say "Oh well." My statement in regards to squadron/wing cords was only an opinion, anyhow.

But might I ask how else one can get the Blue Beret, other than completion of NBB? Because if you're talking about the ability for wing commanders to authorize it, then I already included that.

[That Anonymous Guy]

the ones who posted links and/or quoted the regulations.

I don't see anything wrong in my post...

Nor mine, it was simply vague.

[Abby.L]

the ones who posted links and/or quoted the regulations.

I don't see anything wrong in my post...

Nor mine, it was simply vague.

I'm gonna have to be with Lord Monar on this one. Yours wasn't just vague, but it was very vague.

[Struts]

For an example on Wing Commanders being able to add a supplement; in NH Wing is authorised to wear red and white aguellettes for NCOA.

[kcbrent]

My only concern with citing things in 39-1 is that it is so outdated who knows what is correct and what isn't I can show you several examples where the uniform has changed 5 times (i.e. Blue field unform).

So.....is the Color Guard specs in there now, accurate?

[Abby.L]

CAPM 39-1 mentions nothing about a white cord for color guards, only for color guard teams at NCC. However, as I stated earlier, 52-16 states that squadron color guards may wear the white cord. It's up to the commander to follow whatever one he wants, since there is a contradiction. Also, you may look at the supplement for your wing. COWG allows for white ladder lacing on combat boots for color guards, but someone from another wing would be perplexed.

[kcbrent]

Now what about bibes (be it white bibs for example) can CAP CG wear bibs? Or its this under approval of WG add well?

[Eclipse]

Now what about bibes (be it white bibs for example) can CAP CG wear bibs? Or its this under approval of WG add well?

Only Honor Guards (assuming you're asking about what I think you're asking).

[arajca]

COWG allows for white ladder lacing on combat boots for color guards, but someone from another wing would be perplexed.

Where did you find that authorization?

[kcbrent]

I do see in the earlier posts to this topic re 39-1  and 52 that it does list "Scarves", I have always known them to be called "Bibs" and maybe that was jusst a nickname (since it looks like a bib) and the true name may very well be scarves? is my assumption correct?



Honor Guardsmen will wear silver shoulder cords; (b)
scarves; (c) white gloves; (d) white and black belts; (e) helmet liners.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I do see in the earlier posts to this topic re 39-1  and 52 that it does list "Scarves", I have always known them to be called "Bibs" and maybe that was jusst a nickname (since it looks like a bib) and the true name may very well be scarves? is my assumption correct?



Honor Guardsmen will wear silver shoulder cords; (b)
scarves; (c) white gloves; (d) white and black belts; (e) helmet liners.

Why don't you tell us what your unit has, and we can go from there? You can't just dress up a Color Guard as an Honor Guard and call it a day. There are differences outside of appearance on those two.

[spaatzmom]

I do see in the earlier posts to this topic re 39-1  and 52 that it does list "Scarves", I have always known them to be called "Bibs" and maybe that was jusst a nickname (since it looks like a bib) and the true name may very well be scarves? is my assumption correct?



Honor Guardsmen will wear silver shoulder cords; (b)
scarves; (c) white gloves; (d) white and black belts; (e) helmet liners.

They are actually called ascots and worn by Honor Guardsmen NOT Color Guards.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Color Guards wear ascots as well, just without the HG patch.

[Extremepredjudice]

Color Guards wear ascots as well, just without the HG patch.

Cite?

[spaatzmom]

Color Guards wear ascots as well, just without the HG patch.

I cannot find any citation that can support this statement.  Please provide such. 

In the 52-4 for color guard uniform it lists the following;

Manual.
b. The authorized uniform for male cadets is the short-sleeve blue shirt (with epaulets) and blue
trousers. The authorized uniform for female cadets is the short-sleeve blue blouse (with epaulets) and
blue slacks or skirt. 
c.  Ties and Tie Tabs will not be worn. Ribbons will be worn. Taps on shoes are not authorized.
d.  Color guards will wear the uniform/accessories listed below. All items are found in either the
Vanguard catalog or any parade accessory catalog. No other items are authorized.   

Gloves, Pistol belt, Shoulder cord, Rifle, Flag sling

Honor Guards do not use helmet liners or white and black belts.  Their uniform is as follows;

CAPM 39-1   23 MARCH 2005 67
CHAPTER 3 – CIVIL AIR PATROL HONOR GUARD UNIFORM
3-1. General.  This chapter prescribes the standardized uniform worn by Civil Air Patrol honor guards. 
This uniform is approved for wear during honor guard duties and performances only.  Only those items
described in this chapter may be worn.  Items such as blue ascots with BDU, boots with the service dress
uniform, swords, "Smokie Bear" hats, etc., are not permitted.  National Cadet Competition drill teams,
color guards, or other CAP special teams will not wear this uniform.  The honor guard uniform consists
of the service dress uniform coat with epaulets and slacks/trousers, male service cap with cadet officer
cap device, white ascot with Honor Guard patch, metallic silver shoulder cord, white pistol belt, white
gloves, and a brown non-operating parade rifle with white leather sling.  Helmets or helmet liners will
not be used.  Either the old or new style of service dress may be worn; however, all members of an
honor guard should be in the same style, if possible.  Bayonets, swords, or sabers will not be used under
any circumstances.  This uniform is authorized for  year-round wear.  The colors element flag bearers
will wear white flag slings instead of white pistol belts.  The guards will wear pistol belts.  See Table 3-1
for specific uniform requirements.
3-2. Wear Instructions and Grooming Standards.  Since this uniform is a specialized uniform worn
in a specific way, wearing instructions and grooming standards are included in this chapter.  Honor
guard members may find it beneficial to have two service dress uniforms, one for everyday CAP wear
and one for honor guard performances, and two pair of low quarter shoes, one pair with the Honor
Guard taps and one without.  See Table 3-2 for specific wear and grooming instructions.
3-3. Use of Air Force Honor Guard Uniforms or Equipment.  The use of Air Force Honor Guard
uniforms or equipment is prohibited.  This includes base honor guards, The Air Force Honor Guard
(based at Bolling AFB, DC), and USAF Honor Guard uniforms purchased or procured by any means.

http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/M39_1_chap_3.pdf

[Abby.L]

COWG allows for white ladder lacing on combat boots for color guards, but someone from another wing would be perplexed.

Where did you find that authorization?

http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library/reg-man/39-1sup_co030501.pdf

It's rather old, but it's the newest one for COWG, so it's still viable. Unless anything's been put out for COWG recently, this is as updated as it gets. A few parts get defeated by the newest ICL of 39-1, though.

[Eclipse]

COWG allows for white ladder lacing on combat boots for color guards, but someone from another wing would be perplexed.

Where did you find that authorization?

http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library/reg-man/39-1sup_co030501.pdf

It's rather old, but it's the newest one for COWG, so it's still viable. Unless anything's been put out for COWG recently, this is as updated as it gets. A few parts get defeated by the newest ICL of 39-1, though.

That's not how supplements and OI's work.

They have to be re-validated whenever there is a new Commander (at the respective level), or a revision to the respective regulation.
That may well be the guidance COWG members are living with, but it is no longer enforceable as a supplement.

[Abby.L]

COWG allows for white ladder lacing on combat boots for color guards, but someone from another wing would be perplexed.

Where did you find that authorization?

http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library/reg-man/39-1sup_co030501.pdf

It's rather old, but it's the newest one for COWG, so it's still viable. Unless anything's been put out for COWG recently, this is as updated as it gets. A few parts get defeated by the newest ICL of 39-1, though.

That's not how supplements and OI's work.

They have to be re-validated whenever there is a new Commander (at the respective level), or a revision to the respective regulation.
That may well be the guidance COWG members are living with, but it is no longer enforceable as a supplement.

...My life's now a lie... 

Well now, I gotta go figure out my life now... 

Guess we all learn something new every day! 

[arajca]

The best way to find the approved supplements to manuals and regs is to check the wing website.

There are no supplements or wing directives concerning CAPM 39-1 currently listed.

[lordmonar]

My only concern with citing things in 39-1 is that it is so outdated who knows what is correct and what isn't I can show you several examples where the uniform has changed 5 times (i.e. Blue field unform).

So.....is the Color Guard specs in there now, accurate?

That's what your chain of command is for.....and not us Yahoos on CAPTALK.
Read the reg and follow your chain of command's directions.

End of story.