Medical Certificate

[FlyTiger77]

...pay them for the extra paperwork...

In my experience, Army flight surgeons have never accepted pay for doing a civilian medical in conjunction with an annual military flight physical.

[SARDOC]

^^ That's just the thing.  Not all Military Flight Surgeons are AME's.  Even if they were it would be against regulations to pay them for the extra paperwork.

The Military Flight Physical is an annual requirement so I would think the documentation would need to be updated every time there is a new version.   Also, Military Medical Clearances could be revoked even for the most trivial items.  So the integrity of the Member is crucial in the event their clearance is suspended.

[bflynn]

Military Medical Clearances could be revoked even for the most trivial items.  So the integrity of the Member is crucial in the event their clearance is suspended.

Class 3 medicals can be lost too.  So we're already depending on the integrity of members, which I don't think is a bad thing.

[SARDOC]

Military Medical Clearances could be revoked even for the most trivial items.  So the integrity of the Member is crucial in the event their clearance is suspended.

Class 3 medicals can be lost too.  So we're already depending on the integrity of members, which I don't think is a bad thing.

Back in the day when I was a Corpsman in an Aviation Unit, I could pull an "up Chit" for any reason I deemed necessary, even if it was that the Aviator failed to return their medical record to the squadron as directed.

In preparing for an inspection I had four pilots that wouldn't return "their" medical record, I had to remind them that the medical record was actually the property of the U.S. Government and that their flight clearances were suspended for failure to comply.  They ignored me for over a month...strangely within hours of having their flight status and flight pay suspended I had all four records.  As a Corpsman I can suspend, but then they had to go to medical and meet with a flight surgeon to get a new clearance.  All the Aviators in the Command knew not to mess with Doc when he warns you.   

[PHall]

Military Medical Clearances could be revoked even for the most trivial items.  So the integrity of the Member is crucial in the event their clearance is suspended.

Class 3 medicals can be lost too.  So we're already depending on the integrity of members, which I don't think is a bad thing.

Back in the day when I was a Corpsman in an Aviation Unit, I could pull an "up Chit" for any reason I deemed necessary, even if it was that the Aviator failed to return their medical record to the squadron as directed.

In preparing for an inspection I had four pilots that wouldn't return "their" medical record, I had to remind them that the medical record was actually the property of the U.S. Government and that their flight clearances were suspended for failure to comply.  They ignored me for over a month...strangely within hours of having their flight status and flight pay suspended I had all four records.  As a Corpsman I can suspend, but then they had to go to medical and meet with a flight surgeon to get a new clearance.  All the Aviators in the Command knew not to mess with Doc when he warns you.   

And you wonder why flyers hate you.       It's bad enough we gotta play "you bet your career" with you clowns every year.

[SARDOC]

Military Medical Clearances could be revoked even for the most trivial items.  So the integrity of the Member is crucial in the event their clearance is suspended.

Class 3 medicals can be lost too.  So we're already depending on the integrity of members, which I don't think is a bad thing.

Back in the day when I was a Corpsman in an Aviation Unit, I could pull an "up Chit" for any reason I deemed necessary, even if it was that the Aviator failed to return their medical record to the squadron as directed.

In preparing for an inspection I had four pilots that wouldn't return "their" medical record, I had to remind them that the medical record was actually the property of the U.S. Government and that their flight clearances were suspended for failure to comply.  They ignored me for over a month...strangely within hours of having their flight status and flight pay suspended I had all four records.  As a Corpsman I can suspend, but then they had to go to medical and meet with a flight surgeon to get a new clearance.  All the Aviators in the Command knew not to mess with Doc when he warns you.   

And you wonder why flyers hate you.       It's bad enough we gotta play "you bet your career" with you clowns every year.

They can hate me all they want.  When they fail to bring the records back for six months and the squadron fails the NATOPS audit because if it.  The Doc (me) and the Skipper would be answering to the Admiral.  Not when I've got tools at my disposal to influence the outcome...I don't think so.

[PHall]

Military Medical Clearances could be revoked even for the most trivial items.  So the integrity of the Member is crucial in the event their clearance is suspended.

Class 3 medicals can be lost too.  So we're already depending on the integrity of members, which I don't think is a bad thing.

Back in the day when I was a Corpsman in an Aviation Unit, I could pull an "up Chit" for any reason I deemed necessary, even if it was that the Aviator failed to return their medical record to the squadron as directed.

In preparing for an inspection I had four pilots that wouldn't return "their" medical record, I had to remind them that the medical record was actually the property of the U.S. Government and that their flight clearances were suspended for failure to comply.  They ignored me for over a month...strangely within hours of having their flight status and flight pay suspended I had all four records.  As a Corpsman I can suspend, but then they had to go to medical and meet with a flight surgeon to get a new clearance.  All the Aviators in the Command knew not to mess with Doc when he warns you.   

And you wonder why flyers hate you.       It's bad enough we gotta play "you bet your career" with you clowns every year.

They can hate me all they want.  When they fail to bring the records back for six months and the squadron fails the NATOPS audit because if it.  The Doc (me) and the Skipper would be answering to the Admiral.  Not when I've got tools at my disposal to influence the outcome...I don't think so.

And they had their records for what reason?  If it was to go to a school isn't part of your guys inprocessing checklist to retrieve the records from them before you sign off your block?

Or does the Air Force have a better way to do this. Because we don't really have this kind of problem.
We may have other problems, but not this problem...

[SARDOC]

And they had their records for what reason?  If it was to go to a school isn't part of your guys inprocessing checklist to retrieve the records from them before you sign off your block?

Or does the Air Force have a better way to do this. Because we don't really have this kind of problem.
We may have other problems, but not this problem...

The Medical Records were maintained by the Squadron's Medical Department.  The Command had an assigned flight surgeon who happened to be a reservist, so his role was mostly Quality Assurance but occasionally clinical for those in an active aviation billet.  Active and Reserve Pilots and Aircrew had to have all their medications issued to them via a flight surgeon.  The Branch Medical Clinic typically had 2-3 Flight Surgeons on duty during the day.  For them to get a routine physical or sick call they had to come to the squadron and retrieve their record and hand carry it to the Clinic.

After their appointment they are supposed to come back to the Squadron and return their record along with any appropriate SIQ documentation and Medical Notes.  Frequently, when assigned SIQ they would just go home and bring their record back the next working day.  Occasionally they got a referral to see a specialist at the Naval Hospital which was over 20 miles away for multiple follow up appointments with them needing to hand carry their record each time.  My predecessor would frequently allow them to just hold on to the record for convenience purposes.

This developed the "it's My record" culture.  I was frequently just referred to their "up Chit"(authorization for Flight) and that the record was none of my business.  That answer was a NO GO.  My job was to audit each of their appointments especially those with specialists that were not flight surgeons for any medications or medical conditions that would make the member not aeronautically adaptable to flight. 

When Records stopped coming back to the Squadron Medical Department, I brought it up to the OPS Chief which ended my problem with the Aircrew guys.  It was the Officers that I had a problem with.  The OPS Chief and myself brought the issue up with the OPS/O and I got the shaking head nod but nothing changed.  Eventually the Ops Chief brought it up to the CMC who brought it up to the skipper..still nothing Changed.  It wasn't until the wing medical officer came to do a spot check before a NATOPS inspection when he flipped out when he saw record sign out cards that were over three months old.  I really wish I was there to see it.  He went straight to the skipper and made a call that he could "down" the entire squadron and require all aviation personnel re do a Flight Physical (even I think that would be overboard...but there were other issues)  The Next day I came back to work and the skipper told me to fix it.  I started issuing Down Chits to the most uncompliant in the group.  One a Day, until we got to day four.  So after downing three pilots the word got out and I had all the records back in the cabinet.  After that no problems with the exception of one or two non Aviation personnel.  Which was quickly rectified by their division chief.

[SarDragon]

 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[PHall]

Ah, I see the difference here. The Navy keeps the records at the squadron. In the Air Force they're kept in the Base Flight Surgeon's office.
The medical folks maintain custody of the records about 98% of the time.

I knew we had a "better" system!

[SarDragon]

Well, not "better", just different. Our deployment structure differs from yours, necessitating different handling procedures. When everyone plays nicely, the system works well.

[SARDOC]

There were tenant units that did indeed keep their medical records at the clinic.  Mostly those assigned to shore duty at the Naval Station and the Naval Air Station.  I know we kept the records because we were expected to be able to deploy a detachment anywhere in the world between 48-72 hours.  Our unit was primarily assigned to Combat Search and Rescue and Naval Special Warfare Support.  So as the Corpsman I had to be able review the Detachment roster and verify those sailors that were a No Go for deployment and notify the chain that a sailor was ineligible for medical reasons so they can assign a suitable replacement.  It the timeline I had to provide that decision within 8 hours of receiving orders and since I was a drilling reservist this could be a real trick especially if I wasn't local and/or didn't have access to the member's record.  So the QA deployment process was ongoing so I could just check the deployment roster against my roster of eligible sailors.

That's why I started becoming a real PITA when it came to returning medical records.

[PHall]

The Air Force has the same 48 - 72 hour deployment window. And yet feels no need to keep the medical records at the squadron.

Of course we don't have medical personnel assigned to the squadron either...

As part of our deployment process, as soon as the unit identifies which personnel are deploying, that list is sent to the Clinic where the records are pulled and reviewed. If there is a problem with someone's record the squadron is notified and either the problem is "fixed" or another person is deployed instead.

But hey, we are talking about the Navy here. And the Navy is known for doing things "the Navy way"...