"Going Grey at 65:" A Modest Proposal for SM Uniforms

Started by ddelaney103, January 31, 2007, 05:46:32 PM

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ZigZag911

Quote from: lordmonar on February 02, 2007, 12:10:16 AM

I would suggest that we just dump the USAF uniforms for SM's all together.  Go with the TPU (as being closest to the USAF uniform) BBDU and Blue Flight suit.


I'm not all that fond of the TPU, but I have to agree with Lord M (again!) that it would really be a worthwhile thing to achieve UNIFORMITY in our uniforms!

lordmonar

Quote from: ZigZag911 on February 02, 2007, 04:38:41 AM
...but I have to agree with Lord M (again!).....

I just saw four guys on horses ride by my house...just now.  Let's not start anything we can't handle later! :o
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

LtCol White

#42
dcpacemaker, your message was read and ignored considering the source.
LtCol David P. White CAP   
HQ LAWG

Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska

Diplomacy - The ability to tell someone to "Go to hell" and have them look forward to making the trip.

DogCollar

I would submit that perhaps turning down the heat a bit might be more productive?  These point-counter point postings, that are personal in nature, could be handled via personal messaging.  This board is a public area, and being such, it is incumbent upon us all, as officers of CAP, to comport ourselves accordingly.

It's okay for everyone to have strong feelings and opinions about CAP.  It is important to recognize that this is not a perfect means of communication (being on-line, email, etc..) where it is easy to take offense at something written, that said face to face would be no big deal.
Ch. Maj. Bill Boldin, CAP

Dragoon

One purpose of a uniform is to make folks on a team look the same

uni = one
form = appearance


If we have alternate uniforms, it makes sense to make them all, well, UNIFORM.  To the extent possible.

If you have have to wear CAP cutouts on one suit, why not on both?
If you have to wear a hat with one suit, why not with both?
If you have to wear grey epaulets with one suit, why not with both.
Why the heck does CAP have so many different nametags, fer cryin' out loud?

As a commander, I'm much more interested in my unit presenting a uniform appearance than I am with some guys looking spiffier than others because they can.

I agree with lordmonar that since USAF is unlikely to put "fat 'n fuzzies" into USAF suits, and since CAP really needs the talents for these folks, the only way to get all CAPers into a single uniform is to put us all into corporate uniforms.

Failing that, it's best to make the two suits look as alike as possible.

A.Member

I just say:

Boooooo!

All of these uniform change discussions have gotten rather old.  The amount of time some of you spend discussing it amazes me. 
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

DogCollar

Dragoon,

I concur with you about the need for more "uniformity" of the uniforms.  I think I would do it a little differently however.

Instead of one universal uniform...I would offer two.  One, the USAF style uniform for everyone that meets the weight and grooming requirement.  Second, the much maligned grey slacks and golf shirt for everyone who doesn't.  I would drop all other CAP distinctive uniforms.

There would be no discriminating against those who can't or won't meet weight and grooming standards from rising in rank and responsibility.  It might also be incentive for some to adopt a healthier lifestyle in order to wear the uniform.

Given my previous posting, I hope I haven't offended anyone by this suggestion.  Offense was not my intent.
Ch. Maj. Bill Boldin, CAP

Major_Chuck

About the only thing I don't like about the TPU is the Service Jacket.  I do not like the double breasted button look.  Every photo I've seen of people wearing it makes them look rather...wide....

This weekend however I did wear the Class B version of the TPU with a black jacket (actually my Army All Weather Coat) and it looked fine.  (I know, not authorized but it was blasted cold.)
Chuck Cranford
SGT, TNCO VA OCS
Virginia Army National Guard

Dragoon

Quote from: DogCollar on February 02, 2007, 05:02:58 PM
Dragoon,

I concur with you about the need for more "uniformity" of the uniforms.  I think I would do it a little differently however.

Instead of one universal uniform...I would offer two.  One, the USAF style uniform for everyone that meets the weight and grooming requirement.  Second, the much maligned grey slacks and golf shirt for everyone who doesn't.  I would drop all other CAP distinctive uniforms.

There would be no discriminating against those who can't or won't meet weight and grooming standards from rising in rank and responsibility.  It might also be incentive for some to adopt a healthier lifestyle in order to wear the uniform.

Given my previous posting, I hope I haven't offended anyone by this suggestion.  Offense was not my intent.

That would really break the concept of uniformity - half the organization in a coat and tie, festooned with rank and ribbons, and the other half in an open-necked knit shirt with no rank insignia, no ribbons, and different colored slacks.

If we are one team, I'm gonna continue to vote towards looking like one team.

Dragoon

Quote from: CAP Safety Dude on February 02, 2007, 05:44:45 PM
About the only thing I don't like about the TPU is the Service Jacket.  I do not like the double breasted button look.  Every photo I've seen of people wearing it makes them look rather...wide....

Well, technically, those likely to wear the uniform are wide to begin with ;D

Although yeah, I thought double breasted was a bad fashion choice for heavy folks.

davedove

Quote from: Dragoon on February 02, 2007, 06:32:37 PM
Quote from: DogCollar on February 02, 2007, 05:02:58 PM
Dragoon,

I concur with you about the need for more "uniformity" of the uniforms.  I think I would do it a little differently however.

Instead of one universal uniform...I would offer two.  One, the USAF style uniform for everyone that meets the weight and grooming requirement.  Second, the much maligned grey slacks and golf shirt for everyone who doesn't.  I would drop all other CAP distinctive uniforms.

There would be no discriminating against those who can't or won't meet weight and grooming standards from rising in rank and responsibility.  It might also be incentive for some to adopt a healthier lifestyle in order to wear the uniform.

Given my previous posting, I hope I haven't offended anyone by this suggestion.  Offense was not my intent.

That would really break the concept of uniformity - half the organization in a coat and tie, festooned with rank and ribbons, and the other half in an open-necked knit shirt with no rank insignia, no ribbons, and different colored slacks.

If we are one team, I'm gonna continue to vote towards looking like one team.

Even worse, what if only one or two couldn't wear the AF uniforms.  They would really stand out.

I agree that, unless the AF allows those who don't meet weight and grooming standards to wear their uniform, the only way to achieve true uniformity is to go corporate.

Now, I'm not advocating we get rid of the AF uniform, especially the service dress.  I like the uniform.  Perhaps that could be kept as an optional uniform for use when complete uniformity is not required.

Even the TPU is not currently a universal uniform.  Those who chose to wear facial hair, no matter how neatly trimmed, no matter how fit they are, cannot wear the uniform.  I personally think that restriction should be removed.
David W. Dove, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander for Seniors
Personnel/PD/Asst. Testing Officer
Ground Team Leader
Frederick Composite Squadron
MER-MD-003

Dragoon

Quote from: davedove on February 02, 2007, 06:52:24 PM
Even the TPU is not currently a universal uniform.  Those who chose to wear facial hair, no matter how neatly trimmed, no matter how fit they are, cannot wear the uniform.  I personally think that restriction should be removed.

I'd agree, but I'd also agree that it's not unreasonable to demand that our male officers shave (unless they have a medical waiver) and cut their hair.

Being fat is a lot harder to solve than dropping 20 bucks at Hair Cuttery.  While I'm sure we'd lose a few members who love their beards, the result would make us a lot more uniform, and looking a bit more like standard image of an american serviceman.

But either way, one suit (or two suits that look a lot alike) seems the way to go.

ZigZag911

Quote from: lordmonar on February 02, 2007, 05:40:32 AM
Quote from: ZigZag911 on February 02, 2007, 04:38:41 AM
...but I have to agree with Lord M (again!).....

I just saw four guys on horses ride by my house...just now.  Let's not start anything we can't handle later! :o

Yeah, I'm getting a bit concerned myself, Armageddon and all that!

BillB

Don't wory about the Four Horsemen.  Worry about that black van from Maxwell.
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

ZigZag911

Quote from: BillB on February 02, 2007, 11:28:00 PM
Don't wory about the Four Horsemen.  Worry about that black van from Maxwell.

Actually, now that the 'roadside assistance' period is past on the warranty, it's kind of comforting knowing they're with me wherever I go!!

AlphaSigOU

Quote from: Dragoon on February 02, 2007, 07:55:41 PM
Quote from: davedove on February 02, 2007, 06:52:24 PM
Even the TPU is not currently a universal uniform.  Those who chose to wear facial hair, no matter how neatly trimmed, no matter how fit they are, cannot wear the uniform.  I personally think that restriction should be removed.

I'd agree, but I'd also agree that it's not unreasonable to demand that our male officers shave (unless they have a medical waiver) and cut their hair.

Being fat is a lot harder to solve than dropping 20 bucks at Hair Cuttery.  While I'm sure we'd lose a few members who love their beards, the result would make us a lot more uniform, and looking a bit more like standard image of an american serviceman.

But either way, one suit (or two suits that look a lot alike) seems the way to go.

I'll hafta agree... I don't mind if they allow well-trimmed facial hair for those that wear the TPU. Then we'd really start looking like the U.S. Navy of old!  ;D
Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
Billy Mitchell Award (#2375 - 1981)
Administrative/Personnel/Professional Development Officer
Nellis Composite Squadron (PCR-NV-069)
KJ6GHO - NAR 45040

Major Carrales

Quote from: BillB on February 02, 2007, 11:28:00 PM
Don't wory about the Four Horsemen.  Worry about that black van from Maxwell.

Ah ha!!!  The rather dashing 19th Century Victor Hugo hero... Baron Black van Maxwell!!!  Isn't the such an character?  Well, there should have been.
"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454

DrJbdm

I thought I actually read somewhere that NHQ was actually looking at developing a new flight cap with grey braid instead of the current silver/blue that AF has now?? Or was it a grey flight cap they where looking at?? I can't really remember where I read that or what it was they wanted to do with the flight cap. I can't be getting that old already can I??  ;D    I wish they would leave it alone, let's stop trying to be more distinctive.

I wish they would do something with our mess dress uniforms however. the blue braid on the sleeves and on the shoulder boards blends in so well with the material that you can't see it. I wish we could make it look a little closer to the Air Force Silver so it stands out a bit more. our mess dress uniforms just don't look as good as the air force version. I don't see why we can't have the same silver braid they have, we already put a big round CAP seal on the jacket. just place CAP on the shoulder board as well if you need more distinctiveness. how distinctive do we have to be anyway? 

  Back in the 80's when we had the blue grade slides we looked so much better, much more aligned with the AF. I remember a funny story, I was at the BX at Bergstrom AFB with a Captain (I was a cadet officer back then) when a Marine NCO walked up, looked at the Captains blue CAP slides and asked "Sir, Are Air Force airmen getting so stupid that they have to spell Captain next to your rank?"  that was a true story.  Now you know why when you go to the Navy recruiter they give you an IQ test, if your IQ score is below your shoe size you go to the marines, if it's above your shoe size you can go into the Navy. LOL.

Sorry Marines, just messin with you.

ZigZag911

Quote from: DrJbdm on February 04, 2007, 05:38:25 PM
  Back in the 80's when we had the blue grade slides we looked so much better, much more aligned with the AF. I remember a funny story, I was at the BX at Bergstrom AFB with a Captain (I was a cadet officer back then) when a Marine NCO walked up, looked at the Captains blue CAP slides and asked "Sir, Are Air Force airmen getting so stupid that they have to spell Captain next to your rank?" 

Prior to the development of the miniature device for the flight cap, there was an Urban Legend that Seniors without grade had to wear a cutout on the flight cap....and we actually did see a REALLY new SM do so once...picture it, a flight cap with CAP emblazoned on it in silver letters!

We're still chuckling over whether this person's entire wardrobe was similarly marked!

JohnKachenmeister

When I got promoted in CAP to major, my wife asked why it still said "CAP" on my gray epaulet.  "Shouldn't it be MAJ?"

My wife was never a Marine, but she is a blonde.

Another former CAP officer