SOS school

[BradM]

Can you take this course if you don't have a 4 year college degree? I have a 2 year degree and some more college I just didnt finish and get my Bachelor's.

Are there links that you can give so I can learn more about this course and its preresquisites?

Thank you.

[RogueLeader]

No. It is now a requirement to have a bachelors degree. There is a thread here about it.

[BradM]

According to this page:

http://www.au.af.mil/au/soc/course_20.html

Eligibility.
US armed forces officers (Active Duty, Reserve, National Guard, and Civil Air Patrol) selected for the grade of captain (0-3) or above are eligible for enrollment into the SOS DL course.

Federal civilian employees in the grades of GS-9, WG-10, WL-9, and WS-8 and above who possess regionally-accredited baccalaureate degrees and who have completed their probationary periods (that is, have finished one year as federal employees) may enroll. 

International officers and civilians may refer to AFI 36-2301, Paragraph 11.3 for enrollment criteria and procedures.

--

I put the breaks in above. But it looks like the BA degree is for Federal civilian employees. It doesn't say in the first line that CAP Captains must have it. I know that AD/Reserve/Guard Captains already have a 4-year college degree but in the case of a CAP Captain it doesnt explicitly state that you need it. I know probably wishful thinking on my part.

[ßτε]

http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/cap_university/au_a46_students__usaf_dl.cfm

[SARDOC]

Brad,  This question was a source for much consternation on CAPTALK.  The Air Force last year closed the Loophole that allowed for those without at least a BA/BS to attend anything at Air University.  Air University is a regionally accredited school and the SOS, ACSC, AWC are all considered graduate courses so they enforce the same entry requirements for everybody.

[BradM]

Thank you, it looks like I have to go back to school and finish my BA if I want to do SOS or the other courses. I'm due to be a 1st Lt Feb 16, 2012 so counting the 1.5 years as a 1st Lt plus 3 years as Captain I have 4.5 years to complete my BA

It looks like you can be a Major now and take SOS? Another topic said people were having problems with being accepted if they were a Major already.

[SARDOC]

It looks like you can be a Major now and take SOS? Another topic said people were having problems with being accepted if they were a Major already.

Yes from looking at the other threads it looks like that has been corrected.  That's why CAP updated the website to read at least a Captain to take SOS

[AirDX]

SOS, ACSC, AWC are all considered graduate courses

Which is funny, since ACE evaluated SOS as equivalent to 6 undergraduate semester hours.  Which is what I'm using it for, having slipped under the wire on the BA/BS requirement.  My school accepted it as upper division credit, saving me about $2000.

[Pylon]

SOS, ACSC, AWC are all considered graduate courses

Which is funny, since ACE evaluated SOS as equivalent to 6 undergraduate semester hours.  Which is what I'm using it for, having slipped under the wire on the BA/BS requirement.  My school accepted it as upper division credit, saving me about $2000.

ACE's evaluation also recommends several graduate-level hours for it.  I looked into its evaluation for my master's, but ended up not using it.

[AirDX]

ACE's evaluation also recommends several graduate-level hours for it.  I looked into its evaluation for my master's, but ended up not using it.

They recommend 3 graduate hours in addition to the undergrad hours for the resident course, which not too many of us CAP guys are going to get.  The DL program recommendation is:

Version 3: In the upper-division baccalaureate category, 3 semester hours in managerial communications and 3 in national security studies and military strategy (3/06)(3/06).

[disamuel]

When I enrolled for SOS this past summer I had to go back to my University (that I graduated from in 1984) and fill out a form requesting proof of graduation be forwarded to Maxwell.

[RADIOMAN015]

http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/cap_university/au_a46_students__usaf_dl.cfm

Excellent to see that the loophole was closed.   We should require all officers (2nd Lt and above) in CAP to have at least a BA degree.  All others should be Warrant Officers.  See http://www.defense.gov/about/insignias/officers.aspx
RM

[davidsinn]

We should require all officers (2nd Lt and above) in CAP to have at least a BA degree.

Why? How does spending tens of thousands of dollars make me a better CAP Officer?

[titanII]

We should require all officers (2nd Lt and above) in CAP to have at least a BA degree.  All others should be Warrant Officers.

Even though I'm a cadet, and this wouldn't apply to me, I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree. How would a Bachelors in Biology make someone a better leader of cadets, aerospace educator, or ES leader compared to a retired USAF E-7 that never got a college degree? Both don't have a relevant college degree. But one of them is very well educated in the Air Force tradition, leadership, and maybe even aerospace or ES. But they can't go up through the ranks, because they don't have a college degree? As you have said many times, this is the Civilian Auxiliary of the Air Force- not the Air Force. You don't need a degree to commission. We'll take (and use!) all the volunteers we can get.

[RADIOMAN015]

We should require all officers (2nd Lt and above) in CAP to have at least a BA degree.

Why? How does spending tens of thousands of dollars make me a better CAP Officer?

Well you could still be a Chief Warrant Officer 3 rather than a Captain.   Perhaps we could look at an Associates Degree/Specialized Technical School for advancement to regular type CAP officer rank with appropriate military or other management experience.  Also maybe position based non warrant officer (line versus staff) only promotions (you revert down to your old WO rank when you leave the position).    For the most part I would prefer to call most CAP'ers "Mister" or "Misz", seems more appropriate. It's a more pure approach/comfort level for me (being a retired AF officer, who was also an NCO) than the current system.

As far as education goes, it is VERY expensive and I fully understand the difficulties this presents for those that have no government (GI bill) or employer support for assisting with paying the tuition.  Surely, I don't see anyone getting a college degree just for CAP purposes BUT to advance their 'real' work life career (although I've met people in CAP that have no real civilian career, but only a CAP 'career' ).   

The Army & Navy retained the Warrant Officer program, which is for a technical specialist in a particular field including (Army) pilots.  Much more applicable to CAP than the current AF officer structure.   Actually my feeling is that the WO program should have been retained in the Air Force.

Also I think SOS is a waste of time for any CAP member.  All of CAP's professional development education/training should be CAP specific.  The CAP Officer basic course is a great example of an on line course. :clap:     Civil Air Patrol is NOT the Air Force, pure and simple!
RM     

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

For the most part I would prefer to call most CAP'ers "Mister" or "Misz", seems more appropriate. It's a more pure approach/comfort level for me (being a retired AF officer, who was also an NCO) than the current system.
...
Civil Air Patrol is NOT the Air Force, pure and simple!   

So CAP is not the Air Force but you have a problem with our grade structure because you are retired Air Force.

By this logic you would have problems addressing police or firemen who use the same officer grades.

If you are not comfortable with CAP, why exactly are you here?

For many reasons I don't have a bachelors degree. I finished SOS long before the policy change and it and many other courses I've taken to advance my CAP career would help me finish a BS.

[SARDOC]

RM ^^^ I agree to an extent.  I think our Organization could be well served by a well defined career path.  Having an Enlisted/Warrant/Officer structure.  I don't however think that a BA/BS is a requirement necessary for our organization...If we were a Paid Career SAR agency I might be more inclined to agree.  In Lieu of a BA/BS degree maybe something like a week long OCS program (Can be Done on Multiple weekends) to teach members who wish to be in the Management portion of our organization more about how our organization works and expectations of leadership in Civil Air Patrol.  When people from outside agencies see people with Officer insignia it usually represents authority of some sort.  Not just completed basic orientation and six months.

I could go on and on...if only I were Emperor of Civil Air Patrol.   

[arajca]

The response I got when I proposed an Officer Training Program a few years ago persuaded me that going any further with it would be a waste of time.

Six months, one weekend a month, with homework and online work in between. Two of the weekends were SLS and TLC.

[RADIOMAN015]

I just like to comment in red see below

For the most part I would prefer to call most CAP'ers "Mister" or "Misz", seems more appropriate. It's a more pure approach/comfort level for me (being a retired AF officer, who was also an NCO) than the current system.
...
Civil Air Patrol is NOT the Air Force, pure and simple!   

So CAP is not the Air Force but you have a problem with our grade structure because you are retired Air Force.
Well I think even the AF continues to have a problem with this rank/grade structure.   Basically rated personnel, pilots got a pass to field grade officer status and than had to do some real leadership and management, but prior to that they were just technicians flying an aircraft.  WO grades would save us money and those in flying could just fly OR make a selection at CWO3 to go over to a management/leadership position.  There's plenty of senior NCO's that could easily be placed as WO's.   Hey in retrospect I would have liked to have been a WO

By this logic you would have problems addressing police or firemen who use the same officer grades.
I'm quite aware of the important vast difference between public safety officers (fire & police), eg Lt's & Capt's, and CAP's grades.     

If you are not comfortable with CAP, why exactly are you here?
Well it's a good hobby to have, close to my house :angel:.  If you like to people watch there's plenty to watch .  I also think that the cadet program can make a difference in some teenagers lives.   Even our limited emergency services missions can help the AF and state government.  Hey from a radio comm standpoint where else could I set up and operate a HF/SSB/ALE station, with top of the line equipment .  Overall I think we have some very dedicated volunteers in CAP, their grade rank displayed isn't the most important factor in their dedication.  I sometimes wonder if the entire organization would work better without adults having any grade rank BUT just position titles, and all of us addressed as "Mister" or "miz"

For many reasons I don't have a bachelors degree. I finished SOS long before the policy change and it and many other courses I've taken to advance my CAP career would help me finish a BS.

Well a mighty salute to you for using the system to get some free college credit where it is possible.  Remember that there's other courses that CAP members can take besides SOS, ACS, etc via the AF that may also offer college credit.  Also I do realize that it's an individual's choice on what they want to accomplish in their work life career.  Some see work just as a "job' and their CAP volunteerism as a 'career'    

RM. RM

[SarDragon]

RM, did it occur to you that the red-on-blue text is really hard to read? Your posts in that style remind me of some middle school web site efforts, from days long past.

If you want us to read your posts, make them readable.

[exFlight Officer]

The response I got when I proposed an Officer Training Program a few years ago persuaded me that going any further with it would be a waste of time.

Six months, one weekend a month, with homework and online work in between. Two of the weekends were SLS and TLC.

That's too bad your idea got shot down.   I would have taken this course if it were available. Even today, I would try to take it if this course became available.