Laser Lights/Pointers Danger to Pilots

[RADIOMAN015]

Here's some information gathered from the SC area:
http://www.thesunnews.com/2011/09/26/2411422/laser-pointers-on-the-way-out.html#storylink=mirelated
Nation wide incidents are up.  Looks like it's a federal offense with a $11K fine potential.

Try using google news search "laser's pointed at aircraft" and you will get a very good idea of the frequency of this occurring.

Locally, this week we had one incident involving a state police helicopter flying on patrol.  Fortunately, with all its' surveillance equipment it located the subject and hovered as the target as they observed the individual actually go to another window in the muti story house and point the laser at the helo again.   The helo was able to ID the address and the local PD was dispatched to identify the individual. :clap:  Likely they video taped the individual with the optical camera available on the aircraft.   I noted also they contact the local control tower that made a log entry and was notifying the FAA.
RM           

[Flying Pig]

That happens to us about once per month.  It sucks. A few times if its outside of the city, we will just land and deal with it ourselves if there are no ground units around. 

[Al Sayre]

A good old fashioned butt-whupin' for the perpetrator would do wonders to solve this problem, or better yet:   Mr. Laser, meet Mr. Taser...

[ol'fido]

Weren't you schilling a "laser pointer signalling device" in another thread? 

[RADIOMAN015]

Weren't you schilling a "laser pointer signalling device" in another thread? 

I wasn't trying to get anyone to buy anything.    That thread had to do with whether a ground team should considering carry this product IF it became necessary in an emergency (H.R. 386 "Securing Aircraft Cockpits Against Lasers Act of 2011" passed the U.S. House of Representatives on February 28, 2011 and is moving on to the Senate for approval.  The bill specifically exempts "an individual using a laser emergency signaling devices to send an emergency distress signal."  )  to use would it be effective .

The examples above are people that are purposely using these type of devices to cause issues with aircraft/helicopters in flight and others -- NO EMERGENCY IS INVOLVED.

RM   

[RADIOMAN015]

Here's a pretty good website on safety of using lasers, etc
http://laserpointersafety.com/index.html
RM

[Major Lord]

Okay, given a choice of the necessity of signalling an aircraft at night, pick one or more of the following preferences:

1) Laser Pointer
2) Flashlight
3) Strobe light
4) 12 gauge flare
5) 37 mm Parachute flare from my grenadeer, flare launcher
6) Forest fire
Contact on VHF A/C or CAP radio

Major Lord

[Spaceman3750]

Contact on VHF A/C or CAP radio

I'll take radio for 600.

That flare launcher sounds fun, but I'd be worried about it being followed up by number 6 .

[Eclipse]

Lumisource LS-MIR

[titanII]

Okay, given a choice of the necessity of signalling an aircraft at night, pick one or more of the following preferences:

1) Laser Pointer
2) Flashlight
3) Strobe light
4) 12 gauge flare
5) 37 mm Parachute flare from my grenadeer, flare launcher
6) Forest fire
Contact on VHF A/C or CAP radio

Major Lord

ain't nothin like some good old-fashioned smoke signals! 

[davidsinn]

Lumisource LS-MIR

[Flying Pig]

ain't nothin like some good old-fashioned smoke signals! 

I've popped smoke before on calm, cold or very humid days and watched the smoke basically puddle onto the ground and fill in all the low spots around me and then sit like a 2ft thick fog and slowly dissipate.  Nobody in the air would have ever seen it.  It was actually in Korea sitting in a field waiting for some CH47s to come and get us to take us back to the Marine Expeditionary Camp at Po'hang. Not that they needed it to find us, but had we been in any tree cover heavy brush it would have been useless.

[Major Lord]

ain't nothin like some good old-fashioned smoke signals! 

I've popped smoke before on calm, cold or very humid days and watched the smoke basically puddle onto the ground and fill in all the low spots around me and then sit like a 2ft thick fog and slowly dissipate.  Nobody in the air would have ever seen it.  It was actually in Korea sitting in a field waiting for some CH47s to come and get us to take us back to the Marine Expeditionary Camp at Po'hang. Not that they needed it to find us, but had we been in any tree cover heavy brush it would have been useless.

Very true, not to mention the Smoke Grenades cost between 30- 40 bucks a pop at retail. Marine smoke flares are a bit cheaper. ( Willie Petes are the attention getter of choice!) If I am ever lost, just look for the high rocky ground surrounded by a glorious ablaze forest.....( Note: What comes out of a burnt forest? Answer? Crispie Critters!) If I really became disabled in the woods or whatever version of hell I was in that day, I would turn on my APRS tracking transmitter with the "mayday" signal. Every ham in the free world will see it pop up on google maps, accompanied by klaxon horns, and hams can self launch a mission without delays or approvals!



Major Lord

[Flying Pig]

http://www.findmespot.com/en/

This is actually the way to go.  We get these all the time from people hiking the Sierra Mountains.  We fly right to them.  We got one a few weeks ago, the woman had fallen and broken her leg, hit her SPOT and within 30 minutes she was in a helicopter flying to the hospital from the Mono Recess.

[titanII]

ain't nothin like some good old-fashioned smoke signals! 

I've popped smoke before on calm, cold or very humid days and watched the smoke basically puddle onto the ground and fill in all the low spots around me and then sit like a 2ft thick fog and slowly dissipate.  Nobody in the air would have ever seen it.  It was actually in Korea sitting in a field waiting for some CH47s to come and get us to take us back to the Marine Expeditionary Camp at Po'hang. Not that they needed it to find us, but had we been in any tree cover heavy brush it would have been useless.

I was talking about Native American style smoke signals... with a fire and a blanket. 

[Major Lord]

http://www.findmespot.com/en/

This is actually the way to go.  We get these all the time from people hiking the Sierra Mountains.  We fly right to them.  We got one a few weeks ago, the woman had fallen and broken her leg, hit her SPOT and within 30 minutes she was in a helicopter flying to the hospital from the Mono Recess.

Do you prefer the SPOT over the PLB's? I have heard that the newer SPOTS are not as good as the older SPOT; any opinion? I use APRS because I manufacture them and they don't have a subscription fee ( I am too cheap) and I don't spend much time in the boondocks these days....unless you count the hardcore wildlands of Napa, where a drug dealer is a guy selling Pinot Noir, and a hazard is an unfilled pothole or a place on the golf course! On the other hand, there is little chance I will be eaten by bears, and hardly anyone ever gets shot....unless they really insist on it.

Major Lord

[wuzafuzz]

If I really became disabled in the woods or whatever version of hell I was in that day, I would turn on my APRS tracking transmitter with the "mayday" signal. Every ham in the free world will see it pop up on google maps, accompanied by klaxon horns, and hams can self launch a mission without delays or approvals!



Major Lord

I didn't realize APRS has a "mayday"option, or that webpages like aprs.fi would highlight such a report.  Sounds handy.  Something to read up on.  :-)

Now I'll comment on laser pointers to avoid thread drift:
Folks who lase aircraft deserve a colonoscopy with a rose bush.   

[tsrup]

I would turn on my APRS tracking transmitter with the "mayday" signal. Every ham in the free world will see it pop up on google maps, accompanied by klaxon horns, and hams can self launch a mission without delays or approvals!

Sorry, I couldn't resist:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Eclipse]

I would turn on my APRS tracking transmitter with the "mayday" signal. Every ham in the free world will see it pop up on google maps, accompanied by klaxon horns, and hams can self launch a mission without delays or approvals!

Pride Pursuit XL Mobility Scooter


The heavy-duty Pursuit XL Mobility Scooter from Pride Mobility is a great off-roader, with 13" wheels to handle rugged terrain. It has a 8.25 MPH top speed, standard full lighting package with directional signals, non-marking low profile tires and independent front and rear dynamic suspension for smooth rides over bumpy terrain. The Delta tiller is a convenient and comfortable feature for those with limited hand dexterity; operate the scooter with a single finger or thumb, while resting your arms on the tiller sides.

The Pride Mobility Pursuit XL 4 wheel mobility scooter is a full-sized mobility scooter that is economically priced but still has many features of the higher priced scooters. The weight capacity is 400 lbs, the speed is up to 8.25 MPH and it will handle up to 22 miles on one battery charge with the standard 70AH included batteries. Upgraded 100AH batteries provide for up to 29 miles on a single charge.

Note:  Range is reduced when used with optional strobe kit...

[Major Lord]

The last two posts were very poignant. I just came back from Pacificon ( a big Ham Convention) in Santa Clara California. I have never seen so many of those scooters in one place at the same time! ( not even in convalescent homes when I was an ambulance medic) My business associate and I love to exhibit our goods there because it improves our self-image: we are always the youngest and thinnest people in the convention hall! On a somewhat related note, I met a ham who is converting one of those power chairs to a semi-autonomous wild boar hunting robot for his farm....., Naturally, I volunteered to help him with the project, and told him I could round up enough of my "home boys" to have a porcine holocaust.... Maybe we could get CAP to dust -off our old airborne  wolf-eradication program and adapt it to pigs.........If so, I want "Pig Kill" ribbons, with 5 confirmed PKIA's making you a pig-ace! To keep in the spirit of the thread, we could use laser-sighted weapons.

Major Lord

[AirDX]

That flare launcher sounds fun, but I'd be worried about it being followed up by number 6 .

As in:

http://www.khon2.com/mostpopular/story/Police-Flare-gun-sparked-Koko-Head-brush-fire/uPBPXmXtaU2-AAJe7ingJg.cspx

The Rest of the Story:

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/15646184/firefighters-battle-big-brush-fire-in-hawaii-kai

[Major Lord]

My guess is that it was a 12 Gauge flare gun. Since they don't go too high, they sometimes land hot......Of course, if you fire it horizontally, its an incendiary tracer round! Remember: Only you can prevent forests! ( with apologies to Smokie the Bear, R.I.P.)

I relined a 26mm German Flare gun (these are solid steel and aluminum, not plastic) with a 12 gauge insert, that chambers a short blank, and allows you to drop a Cyalume stick ( which happily, is just right for a 12 gauge shotgun....) It makes a great night time signal with minimal collateral fire damage. I use the 12 Minute super Bright Orange sticks. This is primarily for a line thrower gun, with the addition of an open face fishing reel, but the glow stick busts internally when fired, lighting it up, and its soft enough not to cause any damage if I hit a ceiling pipe, heater vent, innocent bystander, etc.

Major Lord

[Al Sayre]

Maybe you can market that idea to the cops.  Come up with a frangible cyalume round that doubles as a "Rubber Bullet".  Makes it easier to track a fleeing perp at night if they keep running...

[wuzafuzz]

The last two posts were very poignant. I just came back from Pacificon ( a big Ham Convention) in Santa Clara California. I have never seen so many of those scooters in one place at the same time!
Major Lord

I wonder when APRS will have to include a "scooter mobile" icon?

[Major Lord]

The last two posts were very poignant. I just came back from Pacificon ( a big Ham Convention) in Santa Clara California. I have never seen so many of those scooters in one place at the same time!
Major Lord

I wonder when APRS will have to include a "scooter mobile" icon?

Hmmm, excellent idea! I will be visiting Finland next summer and will bring up the idea with Hessu, who owns aprs.fi

Major Lord

[blackrain]

Wasn't there talk about using lasers in the D.C. area to warn aircraft that they were straying into restricted/prohibited airspace.

Anything come of that?

On a side note we used green lasers in convoy ops in Iraq to warn civilian vehicles to get out of the way. Very effective though I don't recall the power rating they had.

[mocap84]

Just last week in STL, an airline flight that took off from Lambert and was heading north was blinded by a green laser outside of St. Charles. 

[PHall]

Wasn't there talk about using lasers in the D.C. area to warn aircraft that they were straying into restricted/prohibited airspace.

Anything come of that?

Judging by the numer of small GA aircraft that have been intercepted in the DC area lately, I don't think it went past the "idea" stage.

[flynd94]

Phil,

It's just not GA pilots who screw up. Many an airline pilot has flown into the prohibited area. I really don't understand why. If you are taking off from DCA to the north, you turn left and keep the river to the right/east of your aircraft. Don't cross the river and you are safe. Doing the river visual approach keep the fiver to your left, don't cross it.  DCA is one of my most favorite airports to fly in/out of, epsicially doing the river visual. Nothing like flying down the Potomac and looking up at the Washington Monument.

[PHall]

Phil,

It's just not GA pilots who screw up. Many an airline pilot has flown into the prohibited area. I really don't understand why. If you are taking off from DCA to the north, you turn left and keep the river to the right/east of your aircraft. Don't cross the river and you are safe. Doing the river visual approach keep the fiver to your left, don't cross it.  DCA is one of my most favorite airports to fly in/out of, epsicially doing the river visual. Nothing like flying down the Potomac and looking up at the Washington Monument.

Haven't seen any news reports about the F-16's being launched because of an errant B-737. But there has been a few about Cessna/Piper pilots busting the line into the prohibited area and the TFR over Camp David.
Of course the airliners were talking to approach/tower while most of the GA aircraft weren't talking to anybody.

[bosshawk]

Add to that the fact that all airliners and most corporate aircraft flying from and into Washington National, Dulles and BWI are on instrument flight plans, which means that they are in positive radar contact and are in constant radio contact with the ground, while a large percentage of GA aircraft are neither on instrument flight plans nor are talking to anyone.  Yep, it is the GA guys who are getting busted.

I know that airspace from my days in DC and I fail to understand why so many pilots don't seem to get the picture.  I chalk it up to carelessness and lack of following the rules.

[Buzz]

Okay, given a choice of the necessity of signalling an aircraft at night, pick one or more of the following preferences:

My preference is to avoid being in a position where my life depends on signalling an aircraft at night.