MAWG Encampment-best position for a C/SMS?

[Sgt. Papa]

Hey guys, i'll be staffing MAWG Encampment in 2012 and by then, i'll be a C/SMS, i've been debating whether or not to be a Flight Sergeant, a First Sergeant, or go for a support staff position such as Assistant to the Medical Officer or Admin. Can any experianced Cadets elaborate on this topic?

               Tyler Palmer, C/A1C, CAP
   Element Leader, Essex County Composite

[Eclipse]

Have you completed an encampment as a basic cadet?  If not, that will be your only choice.

FYI - Cadet Senior Master Sergeant is abbreviated as "C/SMSgt".

[Chief2009]

Also, don't assume you will hold the grade of C/SMSgt. Just because you have passed all the tests does not guarantee you will receive your promotion. Your commander has to approve that you are ready for the increased responsibility.

Two months and all tests passed means you are eligible for promotion, it does not mean you'll necessarily get it right away.

[Huey Driver]

Welcome to CAP/ CAPTalk!

It is pretty difficult C/A1C to C/SMSgt as quickly as you're thinking. I'm guessing you haven't been to basic encampment either, if I'm wrong correct me. Also, have staff selections even begun yet? This all seems like wishful thinking.

But whatever happens, good luck.

[MIKE]

Text Messaging NCO. 

Eagle Squadron, MAWG Encampment 1999... Man, I feel old now.

[JC004]

I wouldn't make any assumptions on that many promotions.  That's a lot.  Even if you pass all your tests on the first try like I did as a cadet, I still didn't breeze through in minimum time (even with a temp medical to give me a boost of not needing to do PT for a while).  Of course I had factors like being busy trying to cover for lack of SMs and fighting some not-so-kosher things done with promotions there, but I did fine and I still wouldn't assume blasting through that fast.  It may not even be a good idea to blast through unless you REALLY need to for leaving for college or something.  As an airman, I made assumptions about what I could get done and when (including non-promotion stuff) and I found out what happens when you assume.  I also started out into bling.  Ew.  Learned a lot in time.

Have you completed an encampment as a basic cadet?  If not, that will be your only choice.

FYI - Cadet Senior Master Sergeant is abbreviated as "C/SMSgt".

Why is "abbreviated" such a long word?

[DakRadz]

I was a JROTC cadet who could promote twice as fast as the normal cadets. The rate to the Mitchell for normal cadets is 18 months, whereas I could have gotten it done in 9-12 technically. Guess how long it took me? 18 months.

No matter what your background is, flying through the Cadet Program won't help you. I went through at the maximum pace any cadet can, and still didn't get the kind of experience I wish I had. At one point, all of the leadership ideas and practices hit me at one time- after I stalled out as a C/2d Lt because I wasn't sure what to do now that I'd got there.

Also, as mentioned- you must go to a Basic encampment before ever applying as staff.

[a2capt]

Just because you did the test, and did the time, does not mean you are ready to advance.

Part of the Cadet Program is the growth it brings you. That more often than not, does not happen in the 8 week cycle. So you can blow through it, but like a road trip at 80MPH, you miss a lot along the way.

[titanII]

Cadet Palmer went a Basic Encampment- I saw him there this past July  .
As for which staff position you should apply to, just apply to all that interest you. I don't know for sure, but I don't think that grade matters too much in the selection process.
Hope to see each other on staff next year

[Spaceman3750]

Assistant to the Medical Officer or Admin

[Eclipse]

Are we ever going to hear from him again?

As for which staff position you should apply to, just apply to all that interest you. I don't know for sure, but I don't think that grade matters too much in the selection process.

Grade does matter, especially for line staff roles.  Not all encampments can meet their grade recommendations for all positions, but it is always
a factor during the application process.

Generally First Sergeant is a Chief(ish) preference.

Flight Commanders should be officers, usually Captain or below, and the big 3 would preferably be Major's or higher.

C/SMSgt would be appropriate for Flight Sergeant, but not much higher than that.  Support staff is all over the road, so no telling
there what once CC would want versus the next.

[Stonewall]

Essex County Composite

Hah. I was born in Essex County.

[titanII]

Grade does matter, especially for line staff roles.  Not all encampments can meet their grade recommendations for all positions, but it is always
a factor during the application process.

I'm sorry, what I said was rather vague. I meant that grade isn't the most important factor. (I would think that) being a good leader and a squared-away cadet is more important than grade. Given the option of a sharp, high speed C/MSgt or a dim-witted Chief, who do you think would be selected?
FWIW, there were Flight Sergeants that were C/CMSgt and C/TSgt at my encampment.

Edited: elaborated on my point

[Eclipse]

I'm sorry, what I said was rather vague. I meant that grade isn't the most important factor. (I would think that) being a good leader and a squared-away cadet is more important than grade. Given the option of a sharp, high speed C/MSgt or a dim-witted Chief, who do you think would be selected?

I agree to a point, including with your example above, but there are some areas where not being the proper grade is inappropriate, either because
of who else will be in ranks, or simply reaching too high.  I've literally had an A1C apply to be cadet commander, no matter how squared away he is that wouldn't fly.

We've also had cadets reaching too low.  Putting a Double-Diamond in as a Flight CC isn't really appropriate either, except in really rare cases specific to the   cadet.

[Sgt. Papa]

Yes, i've attended basic, and if you all think i'm not ready for a more higher responsibility, then talk to someone from my squadron staff. at a recent NCO academy i went to, an Air Force 1st Lieutenant was impressed by me. Nobody impresses this First Lieutenant. Not to blow my own horn but that's what i heard from my Commander. to be honest, i know i'll be at least a C/SMSgt, and i know i'll be ready.

[Eclipse]

We don't know you either way, and you have no posting history to judge, so relax.  If you get the calendar and are qualified for the jobs, more power to you.

Impressing someone could just as well mean they were impressed with your abilities relative to your experience and grade.

make sure to check your PM's.

[titanII]

I agree to a point, including with your example above, but there are some areas where not being the proper grade is inappropriate, either because
of who else will be in ranks, or simply reaching too high.  I've literally had an A1C apply to be cadet commander, no matter how squared away he is that wouldn't fly.

Exactly. There are [obviously] limitations to the idea.

[Sgt. Papa]

Eclipse, i'm not angry or anything, i'm just frustrated on why people automatically see the grade of C/A1C, and automatically think "noob". some people pick up on things quickly. sorry for the misconception.

-Tyler Palmer, C/A1C, Element Leader
Lt.Col. Antoinette D. Fischer, Essex County Composite Squadron
NER-MA-007

[davidsinn]

Eclipse, i'm not angry or anything, i'm just frustrated on why people automatically see the grade of C/A1C, and automatically think "noob". some people pick up on things quickly. sorry for the misconception.

-Tyler Palmer, C/A1C, Element Leader
Lt.Col. Antoinette D. Fischer, Essex County Composite Squadron
NER-MA-007

I'm not thinking noob but I am thinking newb, as in newbie; not been around very long but has potential. A noob is someone that is unwilling to learn. I've met noobs that have oak leaves and more time in service than I have years on this planet.

[Sgt. Papa]

No, i see what you're saying, i may have only joined 6 months ago, but i know my stuff. quiz me on anything. i dare ya.

[Extremepredjudice]

No, i see what you're saying, i may have only joined 6 months ago, but i know my stuff. quiz me on anything. i dare ya.

What manual is "By my command" in? 

[MACadet]

Hello,

I normally just browse through the forums as a guest, but I saw this thread and figured I could offer some input.

This is towards the original post of staff choices.

This year I was the PAOIC at the MAWG Encampment last year.
2010 was my basic year.

Applications were done before conference. Review boards at conference and a make up date a few weeks after.

Anyway, you can't go wrong with any staff here. This year everyone did an outstanding job. If I were you, I would think about what you would like to do. Prior positions seem to influence cadets' choices (I.E., a first sergeant applies for first sergeant at encampment). Though in my case, I had never worked in Public Affairs.

If you're on Facebook and part of the Mass. Wing group, post on the group's wall. Almost all of Encampment staff is on it and would love to put some input.

[Майор Хаткевич]

No, i see what you're saying, i may have only joined 6 months ago, but i know my stuff. quiz me on anything. i dare ya.

Have you even seen the C/Officer Leadership books?

[Perez]

Woah there ECCS4Life, it's all fun and games until someone starts asking pass review questions, but I'll let you get yourself out of that one. As far as promotions go, I would definitely shoot for C/SMSgt. If you meet the requirements and you have the proper level of maturity, there's no reason you can't do it. That being said, don't be disappointed if you fall short. As Cadet Donovan said, MAWG values leadership potential and knowing your stuff more than an extra stripe/pip. Here's a list of both probable and possible positions you can apply for with a grade of C/MSgt:

-Flight Sergeant(Best way to gain experience from the ground up, and very rewarding)
-First Sergeant(You are responsible for acting as a liaison between cadet officer and cadet NCOs. There's a lot of responsibilities involved, and a lot more to it than shouting at cadets.)
-A number of support staff roles(public affairs, logistics, kitchen staff, communications, SET, ect.)

After this year's encampment, I almost wish I would have applied for first sergeant, but the knowledge and hands on experience I gained as a flight sergeant are irreplaceable, and I got a chance to train a small group of cadets and see direct results in their confidence and performance. Take the time to really think about it, and come to a decision that you feel comfortable with.
Just thought I'd pop in here and give my two cents.
(FYI: I was cadet Palmer's flight sergeant at this year's encampment.)

[RADIOMAN015]

Text Messaging NCO. 

Eagle Squadron, MAWG Encampment 1999... Man, I feel old now.

Your a youngster -- try MA Wing Encampment 1966, Otis AFB, MA, now that's old :angel:
RM

[MSG Mac]

Text Messaging NCO. 

Eagle Squadron, MAWG Encampment 1999... Man, I feel old now.

Your a youngster -- try MA Wing Encampment 1966, Otis AFB, MA, now that's old :angel:
RM

I was at Otis in 66 and I don't feel old.

[BattagliaK]

   Hello,


I am a C/SrA in CAP, and I have been a CAP member for 6th months. I have never been to a CAP Encampment, however I have been to NY Wing SARTAC (which from what I was told by everyone that went to NY Wing Encampment, that SARTAC was much tougher). I also have two years of AFJROTC under my belt, with 2 years of the JROTC version of an "Encampment". My second year, I was a First sergeant, at our JROTC "Encampment". I was easily the most qualified out of the other three first sergeants, and even current JROTC cadets outside of my unit who outrank me still look up to me. In my JROTC unit, I am a former C/CMSgt, and a current C/2Lt (FYI, in JROTC, you are not required to go through every rank, and most people never make it to both senior NCO and Officer).

   Anyway, my squadron commander has told me that you are not required to have been to an Encampment, or even have the minimum rank of C/SSgt to be on staff at certain Encampments. Is this true? I am unable to go to any Encampments until January, and I wanted to attend as many as possible before I apply to colleges (about 12 months from now). Based on my backround information in JROTC, would that possibly give me a qualification to be on staff at my first encampment, if I am atleast a C/SSgt?

  Also, I haven't seen any on the calendar, but are there any early encampments (preferably in NER) in 2012? I am planning on attending Long Island Group-LIGSAR in February, but would also like to knock out an encampment ASAP.

  Sorry this is long, I am just curious, and am seeking advice from experienced CAP members. Thanks!

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

RIWG holds their encampment in April.

[BattagliaK]

RIWG holds their encampment in April.

   Thanks, is there one even sooner, like in March? RI I believe was the earliest one on the calendar I was able to find.

[MSG Mac]

RIWG holds their encampment in April.

   Thanks, is there one even sooner, like in March? RI I believe was the earliest one on the calendar I was able to find.

Non-summer encampments are generally during school holidays(Christmas or Spring Break) which means the RIWG encampment is currently your best hope. While there is no Reg requiring prior encampment experience to staff an encampment, your chances of getting a staff position without it are slim to none.

[titanII]

FYI, you wouldn't need to attend a CAP Encampment as a basic to staff a CAP Encampment, because you've already attended a JROTC Encampment as a basic. You'll just need to submit your Graduation Certificate to NHQ (see here: capmembers.com/encampment).
Just an option. I'm not necessarily saying that you should skip Encampment as a basic.

[BattagliaK]

 Well, in JROTC, they don't call it an encampment, they call it "Summer Leadership Accademy". I do have my graduation certificate, but JROTC and CAP are two entirely different things. From what I've researched online, CAP encampments are bigger, and there are more activities. You learn about ES, Aerospace, and alot of things that we don't need to get "signed off" on at SLA.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

CAP Encampments are covered in CAPR 52-16. It states your Summer Leadership Academy is equivalent to a CAP encampment and describes how to get credit entered on you CAP record. (as TitanII stated).

If you apply for a Flight Sergeant position I think you would be considered and you would experience the CAP specific parts with your flight. This seems like the best of both worlds.

[BattagliaK]

CAP Encampments are covered in CAPR 52-16. It states your Summer Leadership Academy is equivalent to a CAP encampment and describes how to get credit entered on you CAP record. (as TitanII stated).

If you apply for a Flight Sergeant position I think you would be considered and you would experience the CAP specific parts with your flight. This seems like the best of both worlds.

  Seriously? That sounds very surprising! At SLA we didn't need to get signed off for very many things, and being that I had a position above the flight level, I don't even think I had to get signed off for anything this year!

   Also, something I didn't like about SLA was the fact that if they were missing someone for a position (flight sgt for example) they chose someone on the spot to fill it, which I hated, because I had to work hard, write a resume, and show up to meetings/applications to be selected for my position. This was another reason in which I thought SLA would not count for CAP.


  Thank you very much for this knowledge, I had no idea! And now, I have a goal for my next encampment!

[Xcforfun7]

Being staff is about being able to know the answer to any quiz question or memorizing manuals or regulations. It's about having hands on, leaderships experience; being responsible for leading a group of untrained, unacclimated cadets. Personally, I don't care if you're a Colonel, if you don't have experience and time under your belt, youre not going to be put on staff even as support.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Being staff is about being able to know the answer to any quiz question or memorizing manuals or regulations. It's about having hands on, leaderships experience; being responsible for leading a group of untrained, unacclimated cadets. Personally, I don't care if you're a Colonel, if you don't have experience and time under your belt, youre not going to be put on staff even as support.

No, it's not.

Being staff is about being able to know the answer to any quiz question or memorizing manuals or regulations.

What if someone is a Phase II cadet, and is asked a Phase IV question? How about "I don't know, but I will find out"? Good leaders aren't a walking book, they are dynamic, and know how to find answers.

It's about having hands on, leaderships experience; 

How does one gain experience without being given a chance? If someone applies to be a Flight Sergeant, is it not assumed that they are to be learning from the Flight Commander?

being responsible for leading a group of untrained, unacclimated cadets.

What if one is a support staff cadet, and has no direct authority over basic cadets?

I don't care if you're a Colonel, if you don't have experience and time under your belt, youre not going to be put on staff even as support.

Then chances are, that person isn't a colonel. Experience and time are very subjective, everyone has to start somewhere. It is unreasonable to consider someone unqualified for "entry" level staff positions without previous experience.

That would be akin to all companies wanting 2+ years of work experience when looking to recruit college grads for entry positions.

[Xcforfun7]

My apologies. HUGE typo.
It ISN'T about being able to answer quiz questions or memorize manuals or regs. Sorry for the confusions.

[Xcforfun7]

And you are correct about being placed in entry level positions. We all started somewhere and so must he. But I do think he's trying to rush from being a follower to a leader (prodominemtly, of course.)
He's got to take up staff positions, no reason to rush through airmanship (which is vital) to rush toward a non guaranteed position. But goals are definitely important.

[Xcforfun7]

*He's got time to take up staff positions in the future.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Plenty of opportunities to gain experience at the local level before ever heading off to an encampment.

My trajectory as a cadet took me from basic to advanced to first sergeant. It is my greatest regret to never have experienced flight sergeant or flight commander at the encampment level.

Don't rush in CAP, take the opportunities that come, but do not pass on challenges if you think you wish to take them on.

[Sgt. Papa]

wow havent been on in a while.

Hey Sgt. Perez!, and yeah no i havent seen the Officer text, im only a C/SrA, lets use our logic.
As for the by my command question, for example, if a Flight Commander is drilling a flight, and the Flight Sergeant is to take control of drilling them, he says "Flight, By(or at) my command, forward,MARCH"

[Perez]

Keep moving in the cadet program! While I don't advocate promoting every two months just because you pass the tests, I don't advocate crash & burn careers either. Oh, and the closest thing in AFMAN 36-2203 to what you're looking for is "at my command", which is used when giving mass commands. The whole "by my command" thing is more of a CAP cultural deal.

[davidsinn]

wow havent been on in a while.

Hey Sgt. Perez!, and yeah no i havent seen the Officer text, im only a C/SrA, lets use our logic.
As for the by my command question, for example, if a Flight Commander is drilling a flight, and the Flight Sergeant is to take control of drilling them, he says "Flight, By(or at) my command, forward,MARCH"

It's really simple: whoever is barking commands is in charge.