United Airline Pilots to use iPad for Nav..

[bassque]

Pretty cool. I know we have talked about technology in the air from time to time but just saw this hit the wire.  Pretty neat.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.28a184296dda6208bfa99078cd9b334d.f1&show_article=1

[DrJbdm]

 I think we are only seeing the beginning of what the iPad will do for pilots, I strongly believe that CAP should adopt iPads with satellite internet hookup for the flight crews for realtime communication and data upload / download during missions.

The iPad has tons of potential that we are only beginning to see. 

[Thrashed]

I'll believe it when I see it. I've heard this for years from the chief pilot's office. I would love to dump the heavy flight bag. They aren't doing it for the pilots, they want to save money. They spend millions a year on back injuries for pilots. I'm one of them. It will also save $1.4 million in fuel from the weight alone. They'll save a lot of money over the years. Money for my raise.   

[scooter]

Flew with a guy that had some georef software in his ipad. It used sectional charts and would track the aircraft position on the chart and approach plates. He used a bluetooth antenna to acquire the GPS position. It was really neat but also has some problems.
1. It is not moving map. The aircraft symbol moves so you can fly off the screen and need to find yourself again.
2. It was somewhat cumbersome (too big) in the 182 cockpit, not mounted anywhere. We had to put in in our lap and if you inadvertently touched the screen the picture went away and you had to go find it again. We got proficient at this after about 30 minutes. It was still annoying though.
3. Like all glass stuff, too much time eyes inside the cockpit. I can see a future briefing item for glass cockpit airplanes on who programs/looks at gps and who looks outisde.
Overall, it was a really handy tool. For CAP putting the aircraft on a Delorme map would be really helpful on searches. I understand this might be possible. Thinking of buying one just for its airborne uses.

[Pump Scout]

I love technology and "cool toys" as much as the next guy. However, I temper that generally with something I was taught as a Cavalry man. Sure, the electronic map is neat, it's capable of doing a lot, it's even a better option more often than not than a paper map due to the abilities of the platform. It's also useless if its electronics fry out from getting soaked, the batteries go dead, there's no signal for whatever reason, a bullet goes through it (OK, that's not something we should be having to worry about, but it was for us back then), things like that.

Going to a tablet map app is fine, but I can't see giving up hard-copy maps completely... nor the ability and knowledge to properly use them.

[jimmydeanno]

In this case, each member of the flight crew are being issued one each.  Unless there's an EMP, the chances of ALL of them running out of battery, getting fried, crashing, etc are pretty slim.  While I think that during this transition period between paper and electronic that people should have an idea of how to use the paper maps, I've never had to use a sextant when I've gone anywhere, which was standard equipment "back in the day."

Eventually, the electronic stuff will replace all the paper stuff and nobody will need to understand how to grid a chart by hand, just like nobody needs to know how to use a slide-rule now.

Also, if the maps are connected to an autoupdate feature, it would be easy to almost have real-time updates on TFRs, changes to where towers are, etc identified right on the map.

If I had the option of carrying the iPad or 38 pounds of maps, the iPad wins, hands down - and I'm not even an Apple fanboy.

[Eclipse]

My condolences to United Pilots...

Now, since they will have their "approved portable electronic devices" turned on during takeoff and landing, can the passengers leave there's on as well and we all quit pretending they are causing interference with instruments?

I just want to read my book...

[N Harmon]

It is my understanding that these devices will not be turned on during take-off and landing, so of course the answer is no.

Does anyone here use a tablet in the air for CAP other than as a navigation device?

[Eclipse]

^ That'll be interesting in execution as anyone who has actually tried to turn an iPad "off" will know. 

This sounds like a corporate arrangement to sell iPads that no one vetted with the tech people.

"It's gonna be awesome - all your charts and navigation information right here.  No more paper!"

"Um, excuse me, about that..."

The whole "no electronic device thing" is ridiculous.  For every person like me who actually follows the rules, there 5 who tuck their iPod
in their pocket and listen all the way to the terminal, and how many non-techies even know how to disable their wifi and bluetooth, etc.,
let alone actually do it?

[Spaceman3750]

^ That'll be interesting in execution as anyone who has actually tried to turn an iPad "off" will know. 

This sounds like a corporate arrangement to sell iPads that no one vetted with the tech people.

"It's gonna be awesome - all your charts and navigation information right here.  No more paper!"

"Um, excuse me, about that..."

The whole "no electronic device thing" is ridiculous.  For every person like me who actually follows the rules, there 5 who tuck their iPod
in their pocket and listen all the way to the terminal, and how many non-techies even know how to disable their wifi and bluetooth, etc.,
let alone actually do it?

Push the lock button for 3 seconds and confirm the action with a slide... Not that difficult, unless your idea of a typical airline passenger is a baboon (actually, that might not be far from the truth :angel:).

[N Harmon]

Push the lock button for 3 seconds and confirm the action with a slide... Not that difficult, unless your idea of a typical airline passenger is a baboon (actually, that might not be far from the truth :angel:).

I have on more than once occasion encountered people who swore they rebooted their PCs when in fact all they did was turn the monitor off and back on. Yes, powering down an iPad is trivial to you and I, but to someone else the "sleep mode" is indistinguishable to powering down. All they know is that the later makes it take longer to "turn back on".

By the way, I have my B&N Nook Tablet set up for use in the airplane. I have VFR and IFR charts for my area (all current, some future-current), CAP documents, checklists, etc. I just never really encountered a time where I needed to pull it out. 

Personally? I think if you're not 100% familiar with the technology already inside your aircraft (G1000, GX55, CAP radio, etc.) then you probably shouldn't introduce more.

[Eclipse]

Push the lock button for 3 seconds and confirm the action with a slide... Not that difficult, unless your idea of a typical airline passenger is a baboon (actually, that might not be far from the truth :angel:).

Yes, and then touch any button or plug it into power, and it's likely to turn itself back on.

BTDT x's 5+ at expos.

[Thrashed]

United/continental pilots will not be using an iPad for navigation. It is just a book reader. They will be putting manuals on it. We carry large company manuals. Later on we hope to put our Jeppssen plates on it too. There will be no flight planning or navigation. We already have a moving map in the plane.

[brenaud]

Eventually, the electronic stuff will replace all the paper stuff and nobody will need to understand how to grid a chart by hand, just like nobody needs to know how to use a slide-rule now.

One of my college Computer Science profs had a small (maybe 6") slide rule in a frame on one of his bookcases.  It had a small placard under it: "In case of emergency, break glass"

[ol'fido]

Anyone want to comment on the story I saw on Yahoo the other day about how automation in the cockpit is causing pilots to loose proficiency in basic flying skills. I realize it's the internet and I have no knowledge of how true/false this is. This just seemed to be the appropriate thread to comment on it.

[Thrashed]

Sure, its true, but that is ok. Flying is evolving. I don't shoot hand-flown, raw-data NDB approachs anymore. The Boeings I fly don't even have an ADF. I don't shoot VOR approaches either. If its not an ILS, we shoot RNAV over lays for other non-precision approaches with an artificial glideslope. We also do RNAV RNP approaches to .1 RNP. It's basically a CAT 1 ILS by satellite. Use of the autopilot is encouraged and sometimes required. We fly in VNAV and LNAV almost all the time. We have an automation policy in our manual. We basically use the highest level of automation available. The plane has autoland, autothrottles, autobrakes, autospoilers, etc. It's about money and safety. We are running a business and money and safety are very important.

Can I still fly a plane without all the fancy stuff? Yes. I'm not as good with the "old style" flying as I used to be, but it comes back fast. Pilots are not losing pilot skills, they are just using different ones. I like to hand fly the plane. I like to shoot the approach and land by hand. My company actually requires us to do more autolands, but I don't like to. Especially on a nice day. We get to practice lots of stuff in the simulators, including hand flying without autothrottles. It the autopilot doesn't work, it's ok, we won't crash. 

[N Harmon]

Radio and satellite navigation is causing pilots to lose proficiency in celestial navigation. Obviously a major danger to air travel! 

[Thrashed]

I can't remember how to use my sextant! 

[mon876]

seems stupid when they have onboard navigation systems and you wont get good satelite coverage in an airplane.

[Майор Хаткевич]

seems stupid when they have onboard navigation systems and you wont get good satelite coverage in an airplane.

What coverage? For what?