Short Stacking Cadet Achievement Ribbons

[Joe Baker]

I have an idea.

Being that as cadets go though the ranks their earn one ribbon for each achievement up to the Mitchell and four thereafter. 

Would it not be a good idea to allow cadets to wear their highest earned achievement  ribbon, instead of all earned achievement ribbons.
[In my case 1 instead of 9]

[Cadets do this anyway when they go Senior Member]

[at one time this was allowed with certain uniforms, but was changed with the new CAPM 39-1].

I have a problem with wearing all of my ribbons in the class 'B' uniforms, I have 18 going on 19.  [I also have pre-solo wings and a GTM badge]. 

In my class 'B's all of it comes up above my collarbone, almost to my epaulet [I have a size 16 shirt].

It makes for a rather large and gaudy display.  Not to mention uncomfortable, especially when driving.

I have took to wearing my ribbons in class 'A's only, but I would like to someday wear it in class 'B's again to.

Any way around this?

Topic title spelling - MIKE

[MIKE]

It used to be authorized.  I think it was NCAC that proposed a similar policy on short stacking and the NB didn't like it so they wrote it out of the latest CAPM 39-1.

I follow the USAF custom of not wearing ribbons on shirts when I can get away with it.

I wrote this the other day:

I think cadet officers should wear only their highest milestone award and remove all the other milestone awards and achievement ribbons.  I could go either way with cadet NCOs.  Cadet airmen usually don't have this issue. 

[lordmonar]

Personally I would do this.

Eliminate the acheivement ribbons.

I would use the milestone awards as phase training ribbons.  So cadet snuffy joins cap finishes his acheivment 1 requirments and gets his c/Amn rank and the (current) WB ribbon.  For the Acheivments 2, and 3 and the WB award he gets the rank and a bug on his ribbon.

Another option:

Eliminate the a acheivement ribbons.  Create a cadet orintation ribbon awarded after completing his Curry requirments.  There after they only get ribbons at the milestone points.

Both of these options reduce the number of ribbons a cadet wears, do not require a cadet to rebuild his ribbon rack every 2 months or so but still give them a little bling as an incentive.

Short racking, is not really the way to go as it is different than the pracitces of the USAF.  While we are NOT the USAF we should try to follow their practices as much as possible.

As for your reasoning....they are supposed to be gaudy....you are not requried to wear any of them on your blues shirt (class b's)...and 19 ribbons is not really all that much.

I am acitive duty...I am getting my 24th ribbon real soon and I am required by custom to wear them (the regulation says I don't have to but the command cheif has this way of looking at you....if you know what I mean).

Personally I don't like the idea of short stacking because of the message you send to younger cadets about the importance of the ribbons you choose to loose.  Doing so blunts the tools we use to motivate cadets.  By showing pride in all of your acomplishments helps motivates your subordninates.  It is sort of like hand-me-down cloths.  "Here's your Wright Brother's ribbon...good job!  I don't wear it any more because I don't think it is important...but you should be proud of your accomplishments."

In communications we call that a mixed message.

[MIKE]

Another option:

Eliminate the a acheivement ribbons.  Create a cadet orintation ribbon awarded after completing his Curry requirments.  There after they only get ribbons at the milestone points.

That's an idea... How about using the Membership ribbon that seniors get for level 1.  Have former cadets add a clasp when they become seniors... Makes it sorta like the AF Training ribbon.

I am acitive duty...I am getting my 24th ribbon real soon and I am required by custom to wear them (the regulation says I don't have to but the command cheif has this way of looking at you....if you know what I mean).

Well... You're a SNCO in your active duty persona... And I know how much you like awards. 

[DNall]

Well for God's sake PLEASE change the name of the membership ribbon to the CAP training ribbon, PLEASE!!!!

Now then, Cadets CAN choose to wear only their highest achievment if they see fit. The reg says ribbons are required on service dress, it does not say ALL ribbons are required. If you want to short-stack some of that out, feel free. Personally I think when you go over to C/officer it'd be appropriate to take off all the enlisted ribbons but wright brothers & stick to achievments.

Big picture though, we're talking about cadets here. The ribbon at every grade is meant to entice bling motivated cadets to advance.

[MIKE]

IIRC it does specify all or none for cadets on the shirts and blouses.

[CAP428]

For cadets' service dress, it is a bit hazy:
Quote from CAPM 39-1, Page 17

Ribbons: (required) Worn centered above left breast pocket/welt, resting on but not over top edge with 3 or 4
in a row.

It does not specifically state (at least not on this page, I'm still looking elsewhere) that all should be worn.  The senior members' service dress explanation, found in CAPM 39-1, Page 16 specifically states all or some:

Ribbons: (required) Worn centered above left breast welt, resting on but not over top edge with 3 or 4
in a row. Wear all or some. All ribbons and devices must fall below the top notch of the collar.

This would lead me to believe, since they specifically noted on the senior members but not for cadets, that cadets do not have to wear all on service dress if they're following the regs word for word, but...


For the long-sleeve shirt, it is much more definite:

Quote from CAPM 39-1, Page 19

Ribbons: Worn resting on but not over top edge of left pocket and centered between the left and
right edges with 3 in a row. Wear all or none.

The same for the short sleeve blues.  It looks to me like they intended it to be all ribbons worn for the service dress as well, but didn't specifically state it.  Your call.  Technically you wouldn't be wrong as far as I can see, but clearly it would appear as an attempt to circumvent the intended rule.

[lordmonar]

Another option:

Eliminate the a acheivement ribbons.  Create a cadet orintation ribbon awarded after completing his Curry requirments.  There after they only get ribbons at the milestone points.

That's an idea... How about using the Membership ribbon that seniors get for level 1.  Have former cadets add a clasp when they become seniors... Makes it sorta like the AF Training ribbon.

Nah.  I like the idea of wearing the highest cadet award ribbon.  Because if we are talking about SM's I would do the same thing.  Replace the Level Awards with a single Professional Development Ribbon.  Use roman numberals or bronze numbers to denote what level you have acheived.

Well... You're a SNCO in your active duty persona... And I know how much you like awards. 

I am a bling geek and I have never claimed otherwise.  On the other hand....I earned each and every one of them...even my BMTS ribbon and I am proud them all!

You want to see something guady....you see me in CAP mess dress!  All my USAF medals and my 5 CAP medals...makes a big colorful bowl of fruit salad!

[DNall]

For cadets' service dress, it is a bit hazy:
Quote from CAPM 39-1, Page 17

Ribbons: (required) Worn centered above left breast pocket/welt, resting on but not over top edge with 3 or 4
in a row.

It does not specifically state (at least not on this page, I'm still looking elsewhere) that all should be worn.  The senior members' service dress explanation, found in CAPM 39-1, Page 16 specifically states all or some:

Ribbons: (required) Worn centered above left breast welt, resting on but not over top edge with 3 or 4
in a row. Wear all or some. All ribbons and devices must fall below the top notch of the collar.

This would lead me to believe, since they specifically noted on the senior members but not for cadets, that cadets do not have to wear all on service dress if they're following the regs word for word, but...


For the long-sleeve shirt, it is much more definite:

Quote from CAPM 39-1, Page 19

Ribbons: Worn resting on but not over top edge of left pocket and centered between the left and
right edges with 3 in a row. Wear all or none.

The same for the short sleeve blues.  It looks to me like they intended it to be all ribbons worn for the service dress as well, but didn't specifically state it.  Your call.  Technically you wouldn't be wrong as far as I can see, but clearly it would appear as an attempt to circumvent the intended rule.

So the cadet rule specifically does NOT say all or none where similiar rules for adults do. That would seem to be a clear indication that cadets can shorten up if they choose. Does the Adult rule then REQUIRE that we wear our mil & CAP ribbons, and all of both? What about when it does get too high, can I not then pull off low precedent stuff? That's a bad rule. I know what they're going for, which is basically the AF standard, but in writing it the way they have it makes for these confusing symantics debates. My view is I earnd them & I should be able to wear or not wear whichever ones I choose.

[CAP428]

Quote from DNall  So the cadet rule specifically does NOT say all or none where similiar rules for adults do. That would seem to be a clear indication that cadets can shorten up if they choose.

Not quite.  Cadets are specifically required to wear all or no ribbons on the long and short sleeve blues uniforms.  But you are correct in regards to service dress.  There is no specific indication that cadets must wear all or no ribbons on service dress, though ribbons are required on service dress, just like seniors, thus implying that the option is all or some.  That is the way the regs put it.  However, just in my opinion, I think that it may be a mistake, but there's no real way for me to know for sure, so you would not be in violation of regs if a cadet does not put all ribbons on their service dress, as long as they put some (since they are required to be worn w/service dress.)

Quote from DNall
Does the Adult rule then REQUIRE that we wear our mil & CAP ribbons, and all of both? What about when it does get too high, can I not then pull off low precedent stuff?

I'm no expert, so I can't speak for the wear of military ribbons, but I'll try to look it up.  In regards of CAP ribbons, NO you are not required to wear all of your CAP ribbons.  You are correct, you have the option of wearing the ones you wish (though you must wear at least some as ribbons are required to be worn on service dress, though you are given the option of all, some, or none.).

Specifically regarding your situation about if the ribbons get too high and whether or not you can pull of the lower precedent stuff...yes.  You may.  In fact, if it gets too high, Senior Members are specifically required to pull of some of their choice:

Quote from CAPM 39-1, Page  16
Wear all or some. All ribbons and devices must fall below the top notch of the collar.

...and for the long sleeve shirt combo:

Quote from CAPM 39-1, Page 18
Wear all, some or none. All ribbons and devices must fall below the bottom tip of the collar when worn as an outer garment.

BTW the Senior Member short sleeve blue explanation says the same as above.

So, the verdict is:  If you are a Senior Member, you choose what ribbons you want to wear.  For long/short sleeve blues you can choose all of them, as many as you choose, or none.  For service dress, you are required to wear ribbons, but you don't have to wear all of them if you don't want.  You are specifically required to remove some if they go past the top notch of the service coat or the tip of the shirt collar.

Cadets are required to wear all or no ribbons on long/short sleeve blues, but, by regs, are not specifically required to wear all ribbons on service coat (exactly like the Senior Members.)  However it also does not specifically authorize the wear of only some of the ribbons, as the senior member service dress explanation does explain.

That is where the confusion lies.  So, you are left to make a decision.....

Phew....my detailed analysis concludes...now.

[Major Carrales]

I woudl say once one got the Mitchell, all the rest is redundant.  Since the Mitchell comes with certain benfits...let a cadet officer (Mitchellite) wear it as a testament to the progress made. 

I can see a Mitchell cadet with the following...

Maybe some Commendation...Unit, Commanders, National Commander (courtesy of Katrina, and well deserved and historically significant)

Mitchell
Red Service
Encampment.

ETC...

Get the picture...minimal enough not to look ridiculous, but full enough to impress NON-CAPers and express achievement in the program to CAP members.

Just a thought.

[SarDragon]

Let's add more fuel - why not take the encampment ribbon off at the Mitchell level? Mitchell implies encampment attendance.

YMMV.

[lordmonar]

Let's add more fuel - why not take the encampment ribbon off at the Mitchell level? Mitchell implies encampment attendance.

YMMV.

Heck...why don't we ask the Medal of Honor winners to take off all the rest of their medals.....I mean after the MOH...does anyone care if you got the AF Cross too?

[DNall]

Well, not that I've seen a lot of it, but you could fill that encampment ribbon up w/ clasps denoting staff participation - ctually I've nver seen a clasp on that ribbon, is that authorized? Obviously it should be, not that it matters.

The all/some/none varriations are silly. It should be as consistent as possible... all/some required on service coat, all/some/none on shirts. I'd also go so far as saying if you have mil awards you should wear at least the highest one of those ribbons unless you wear a mil badge - something that points out your prior service but doesn't have to be the whol e package if you don't want. OR, the rule could attempt to enshrine the AF practice... say adult & cadet officers are discouraged from wearing ribbons on shirts except for special occations where the service coat is not worn, but cadet enlisted are required to wear all/some. That's pretty much what I enforce locally anyway, or try to the extent our box-o-stuff holds out.

Overall though, I think you're talking about ribbons a cadet officer might well decide to take off, but these are cadets we're talking about. There's a reason they have a gillion ribbons & I don't thin you need to mess with that. Now if you're talking control of bling on seniors, yeah we can discuss consolidating a couple things &/or wearing the top PD ribbon. A cople others (not so much those proposed) should be added - like an achievment medal someone suggested below the Commander's commendation, like the AF has.

Heck...why don't we ask the Medal of Honor winners to take off all the rest of their medals.....I mean after the MOH...does anyone care if you got the AF Cross too?

That'd be a pretty entertaining way to wear it actually. Who's allowed to tell that person it looks wierd?

[AlphaSigOU]

Try this on for size:

Cadets in Phases I and II will wear all or no ribbons on the light blue shirt.

Once the cadet earns the Mitchell Award, he or she may remove all Phase I and Phase II achievement ribbons (except the Wright Brothers Award.)

Once a cadet completes Phase IV (Eaker) or the Spaatz, then they may choose to wear the highest cadet milestone award earned, much like how senior members who were former cadets can wear their highest cadet ribbon.

[AlphaSigOU]

Well, not that I've seen a lot of it, but you could fill that encampment ribbon up w/ clasps denoting staff participation - ctually I've nver seen a clasp on that ribbon, is that authorized? Obviously it should be, not that it matters.

Clasps denoting additional encampments are authorized on the ribbon. No difference whether for basic attendance or staff service. I wear mine with a bronze triangular clasp, denoting the two encampments I attended as a cadink.

[lordmonar]

Try this on for size:

Cadets in Phases I and II will wear all or no ribbons on the light blue shirt.

Once the cadet earns the Mitchell Award, he or she may remove all Phase I and Phase II achievement ribbons (except the Wright Brothers Award.)

Once a cadet completes Phase IV (Eaker) or the Spaatz, then they may choose to wear the highest cadet milestone award earned, much like how senior members who were former cadets can wear their highest cadet ribbon.

Removing ribbons mid stream is counter to their purpose.  You don't issue a ribbon and then say...but you only get to wear for a while.  The whole purpose is to show the world all of your accomplishments.

If the issue is too much bling.  Let's deal with it by cutting it down.  A simple cadet training ribbon with a bug for each acheivement.  Like wise for SM's.  We get the benifit of getting a ribbon on early...the benifit of recognising each acheivement as they are earned but we don't end up with every Mitchell with a minimum of 10 ribbons.

[DNall]

I don't know that anyone's overly concerned with Cadet bling, unless you're talking about funky looking shoulder boards & too many dif cord options. I dont' see ribbons as a problem & in fact see them as an important incentive for young minds to pursue advancement. Please don't go to a clasp system on those. I know it makes a degree of sense, but it also makes those ribbons non-reusable. I think what we're doing is fine, same concept as what you saw w/ JROTC, but we're doing it right & they're not.

On the senior side, I don;t think it's so much that we have too many ribbons. It's more about what we get them for. We have a SaR ribbon & one for DR now, plus find ribbos, CN ribbon, Comand service ribbon (versus wearing the badge down like AF does), O-pilot, ICACE/NCC/NCGC/NCSA each have a seperate ribbon just for being an escort (or having gone as a cadet), and of course theres seperate ribbons with seperate standards for cadet or adult recuiting. Now it looks like NB is going to vote on HLS, Border Patrol... I don't know like five things. Then you look at our professional development ribbons that recognize a disgraceful joke of a program with five seperate ribbons, put a clasp on one that's also indicated by a seperate badge, got one ribbon that reps a master rating in a field that has a badge for that but no other field does that. Lay on top of that the meaningful awards for distinguished/exceptions/meritorious/commendable service are so politicized as to have no effect in the field - especially when you don't give them to very deserving candidates & do give them to people for sweeping up before an activity, that's versus the counterparts of those awards in the AF are much more widely & fairly distributed.

So yeah it needs some work to consolidate certain decorations & clean up the system on others. The one I think we should add (did I say this already?) is a CAP Achievement award below the commander's commendation, which is the equiv of the AF achievement medal - since we're following their lead on the others. And, like I said since the upper performance decs tend to be limited to region staff rather than exceptional performance on the ground, this is a dec that can be well utilized at the Sq level. Needs good rules though so it's not a sweeping award, but roughly same as a certificate of appreciation/Sq CC commendation type thing. Nice pat on the back ribbon when doesn't reach the change the world level for some of the others.

Then of course you've seen me mention that many AF decs are awardable to civilians & some are regularly awarded to contractors & such. CAP members very much should be nominated for these awards for actions on AFAMs, and we should ask AF to provide a quick statement in the AFI denoting the awards CAP is eligible for on what kinds of actions & the routing proceedure. The bigger part of that being to get the authroity down to AETC & even CAP-USAF in some cases versus the SECAF for every little thing.

[AlphaSigOU]

Try this on for size:

Cadets in Phases I and II will wear all or no ribbons on the light blue shirt.

Once the cadet earns the Mitchell Award, he or she may remove all Phase I and Phase II achievement ribbons (except the Wright Brothers Award.)

Once a cadet completes Phase IV (Eaker) or the Spaatz, then they may choose to wear the highest cadet milestone award earned, much like how senior members who were former cadets can wear their highest cadet ribbon.

Removing ribbons mid stream is counter to their purpose.  You don't issue a ribbon and then say...but you only get to wear for a while.  The whole purpose is to show the world all of your accomplishments.

If the issue is too much bling.  Let's deal with it by cutting it down.  A simple cadet training ribbon with a bug for each acheivement.  Like wise for SM's.  We get the benifit of getting a ribbon on early...the benifit of recognising each acheivement as they are earned but we don't end up with every Mitchell with a minimum of 10 ribbons.

My bad for writing this at o-dark-thirty... I shoulda been clearer by mentioning that cadets under my proposal will continue to wear all ribbons on service dress, but the option of wearing all, some or none is extended to the light blue shirt for cadets.

[BillB]

The removal of Phase 1 & 2 ribbons after the Mitchell has been proposed by the National CAC at least twice and the National Board turned it down twice. The original cadet training ribbons were the red,white and blue training plus Cadet COP. Plus there were very few activity ribbons a cadet, or senior member for that matter could earn. During the 1950's the number of ribbons that could be earned increased and in the mid 60's skyrocketed. So any attempt to reduce the number of ribbons a cadet can earn or wear, is doomed to failure as long as National requires the large number.

[arajca]

The removal of Phase 1 & 2 ribbons after the Mitchell has been proposed by the National CAC at least twice and the National Board turned it down twice. The original cadet training ribbons were the red,white and blue training plus Cadet COP. Plus there were very few activity ribbons a cadet, or senior member for that matter could earn. During the 1950's the number of ribbons that could be earned increased and in the mid 60's skyrocketed. So any attempt to reduce the number of ribbons a cadet can earn or wear, is doomed to failure as long as National requires the large number.

The NCAC proposed the MANDATORY removal of the Phase I & II ribbons. Prior to that, it had been the individual cadet's option. As I read it, the NB decided to make sure the NCAC knew how the NB felt about cadet ribbons when they revised CAPM 39-1 last time.

DNall, a proposal for a sub-CC commandation is making it's way through the COWG hierarchy, backed by the COWG/CV.

As an aside, I sent an idea for a Honorable Military Service award to CAPHistorian for comments. I'll be submitting it through the proper channels.

[DNall]

DNall, a proposal for a sub-CC commandation is making it's way through the COWG hierarchy, backed by the COWG/CV.

As an aside, I sent an idea for a Honorable Military Service award to CAPHistorian for comments. I'll be submitting it through the proper channels.

Good hope they follow the example as they have with each of the other service ribbons & call it CAP achievement medal. It'd be a nice tool. Now if they clean up the process for the rest of those decs we'd be all set.

"honorable military service?" What's that about? They'd have at least one military decoration, and I don't believe you are allowed in CAP with other than honorable. As it is you have the ability to wear mil decs, I'd like to make it mandatory that you wear at least one (or a mil badge) w/ service dress, but thats just me. Only other use I can think of for it is on the alternative white/blues & corporate service coat, all of which I oppose cause they look like a mil uniform but are supposed to be corporate-STYLE as in business suit w/ a lapel pin.

[SarDragon]

[stuff redacted] As an aside, I sent an idea for a Honorable Military Service award to CAPHistorian for comments. I'll be submitting it through the proper channels.

I like it. As a veteran who is not permitted to wear AF-style uniforms, it would allow me to display my "veteran-ness".

[arajca]

"honorable military service?" What's that about? They'd have at least one military decoration, and I don't believe you are allowed in CAP with other than honorable. As it is you have the ability to wear mil decs, I'd like to make it mandatory that you wear at least one (or a mil badge) w/ service dress, but thats just me. Only other use I can think of for it is on the alternative white/blues & corporate service coat, all of which I oppose cause they look like a mil uniform but are supposed to be corporate-STYLE as in business suit w/ a lapel pin.

A veteran can join CAP with a discharge other than honorable if the region/cc grant a waiver.

I know some vets who do not wear the AF uniform for different reasons, but will wear the corporates. I had initially brought it up for the corporates (blue or grey), but figured why not get the AF to allow it on the AF-style uniform.

As for the corporates supposing to look like a business suit, the AF uniform is a business suit now. It is hard to get a uniform looking more like a business suit than the AF servie dress.

We'll have to disagree on the benefit/cost of a CAP military styled uniform.

[BillB]

Last time I looked anyone with an other than Dishonorable military discharge could join. A General Discharge is often given in place of a Medical Discharge, or for service less than two years. And I don't think it requires a Wing or Region Commanders approval.

[arajca]

Last time I looked anyone with an other than Dishonorable military discharge could join. A General Discharge is often given in place of a Medical Discharge, or for service less than two years. And I don't think it requires a Wing or Region Commanders approval.

Ref CAPR 39-2, Sect 3-2, para d.

d. Suitability. Subject to being waived by the Executive Director or National Commander, any one of the following may be the basis for rejection of membership.
1) Conviction of a felony by any court of record whether federal, state or military.
2) A pattern of arrests and/or convictions including but not limited to sex offenses, child abuse, DUIs, dishonesty and violence.
3) Discharge from the armed services under other than honorable conditions.

My mistake, region/cc's can't grant that waiver, the CAP/CC or Exec Dir can.

[DNall]

No waiver should ever be granted for OTH or dishonorable discharges. Not unless we want to take people with felony convictions also.

There was some talk before about a CAP service ribbon (red service or something) that we should get auth for AF wear. However, the argument was that service to CAP gets you a volunteer service medal. Also that every other org (boy scouts) will then wnat their own ribbon & despite our formal affiliation w/ & for the AF, we don't rate such a thing - AFA doesn't get such a ribbon.

I see the point abuot wear on corp-style unis. However, I think it's allowed by mil regs (mot CAP) to wear mil decs on these, just like you see some vets wear their ribbons on particular civiliain cloths. It's just not auth by CAP & that's in deference to AF, but I think they'd like to get them authorized in the long run. You get this thru & it cuts the legs out from under that effort.

By the way, I don't think the NB has any business telling NCAC what ribbons cadets should or should not wear. I think NB needs to step down off their no real power high horse & let practical ideas fly & BoG run the show as the law says.

[Joe Baker]

Good idea!

I'm all for it!

[arajca]

By the way, I don't think the NB has any business telling NCAC what ribbons cadets should or should not wear. I think NB needs to step down off their no real power high horse & let practical ideas fly & BoG run the show as the law says.

The job of the NB at this time is to set policy. The NB has every right and responsibilty to establish ribbon wear policy. While we may want this to change, it hasn't yet.

Personally, I think the old way - some, all, or none - was best. It left the decision up to the member. WIWAC, I would occasionally short stack when a ribbon or two became unfit for wear and I was waiting to get a replacement from the Bookstore. My CC wanted all cadet officers to wear all their ribbons (CAP & JROTC) on their service coats. With the All or None option now, if a ribbon became unfit for wear, I'd have to take the whole rack off.

[Jolt]

I have an idea.

Being that as cadets go though the ranks their earn one ribbon for each achievement up to the Mitchell and four thereafter. 

Would it not be a good idea to allow cadets to wear their highest earned achievement  ribbon, instead of all earned achievement ribbons.
[In my case 1 instead of 9]

[Cadets do this anyway when they go Senior Member]

[at one time this was allowed with certain uniforms, but was changed with the new CAPM 39-1].

I have a problem with wearing all of my ribbons in the class 'B' uniforms, I have 18 going on 19.  [I also have pre-solo wings and a GTM badge]. 

In my class 'B's all of it comes up above my collarbone, almost to my epaulet [I have a size 16 shirt].

It makes for a rather large and gaudy display.  Not to mention uncomfortable, especially when driving.

I have took to wearing my ribbons in class 'A's only, but I would like to someday wear it in class 'B's again to.

Any way around this?

Topic title spelling - MIKE

Did you ever try wearing just the badges or just the ribbons?  I had to wear just my ground team and pre-solo for a while because I didn't want to order my NCSA ribbon when I knew the Earhart ribbon was only a few months away anyway.  That way you don't have to have the ribbons fill up your chest and pin the badges to the back of your shirt.

[DNall]

By the way, I don't think the NB has any business telling NCAC what ribbons cadets should or should not wear. I think NB needs to step down off their no real power high horse & let practical ideas fly & BoG run the show as the law says.

The job of the NB at this time is to set policy. The NB has every right and responsibilty to establish ribbon wear policy. While we may want this to change, it hasn't yet.

Actually, the BoG is the ruling body of CAP. The defer to NB, not so much NEC, in matters of what the members want. Obviously NCAC is a better judge of what cadets want & what's best for teh cadet program than an out of touch NB. That's the way it is right now. The BoG can do whatever they want & it really doesn't matter what teh NB says. Needs to be updated though.

What I'd want to change it to is simply to remove the pretense & dissolve the NB &  NEC. The Wg CCs can still meet as an advisory council & elect their own internal executive officers to advocate those positions to the chain of command, but otherwise there is no need of an oversight body judged by another oversight body. It should be a military-style linear chain from C/Amn to Nat/CC, & that chain should answer to, be selected by, & serv at the pleasure of the independently appointed BoG.

Point being ribbon wear policy should be optional, in line w/ AF, or determined by those most capable of making that interpretation (in this case NCAC).

[Joe Baker]

I have an idea.

Being that as cadets go though the ranks their earn one ribbon for each achievement up to the Mitchell and four thereafter. 

Would it not be a good idea to allow cadets to wear their highest earned achievement  ribbon, instead of all earned achievement ribbons.
[In my case 1 instead of 9]

[Cadets do this anyway when they go Senior Member]

[at one time this was allowed with certain uniforms, but was changed with the new CAPM 39-1].

I have a problem with wearing all of my ribbons in the class 'B' uniforms, I have 18 going on 19.  [I also have pre-solo wings and a GTM badge]. 

In my class 'B's all of it comes up above my collarbone, almost to my epaulet [I have a size 16 shirt].

It makes for a rather large and gaudy display.  Not to mention uncomfortable, especially when driving.

I have took to wearing my ribbons in class 'A's only, but I would like to someday wear it in class 'B's again to.

Any way around this?

Topic title spelling - MIKE

Did you ever try wearing just the badges or just the ribbons?  I had to wear just my ground team and pre-solo for a while because I didn't want to order my NCSA ribbon when I knew the Earhart ribbon was only a few months away anyway.  That way you don't have to have the ribbons fill up your chest and pin the badges to the back of your shirt.

Yes, that is what I do on a regular basis.

[BillB]

That's what the National CAC recommended. Once the Mitchell is earned, only milestone, activity, and award ribbons would be worn. So a Mitchell cadet would wear Currey (not actually a milestone, but most people consider it one), Wright Brothers, Mitchell, Encampment, service and activity ribbons.

[Joe Baker]

Hmmm, the CAC has a good point [gasp].

[arajca]

That's what the National CAC recommended. Once the Mitchell is earned, only milestone, activity, and award ribbons would be worn. So a Mitchell cadet would wear Currey (not actually a milestone, but most people consider it one), Wright Brothers, Mitchell, Encampment, service and activity ribbons.

Close, but not quite. Here is what the NCAC proposed:

Recommend the National Board approve the following addition to CAPM 39-1, CAP
Uniform Manual, Paragraph 1, Chapter 4. "While in Phases 1 and 2 cadets may wear
all their achievement and milestone ribbons. Cadets in Phases 3 and 4 may not wear
their achievement ribbons and are restricted to wearing only their highest milestone
award but may continue to wear all other ribbons."

So a cadet after earning his Mitchell would only wear the Mitchell, service, activity, and awards. No Curry. No Wright Brothers. No achievement ribbons.

The full minutes are available here. Go to Page 24 for the complete proposal, page 27 for the Committee recommendation, and page 28 for the voting results.

[MIKE]

Yeah... It basicly mirrors what we can do as seniors.

[DNall]

And at Earheart would take off Mitchell. I don't like that so much. I think the proposal here is better. At mitchell, it goes to just milestones (and other ribbons), the enlisted achievements drop off. I'm sure NCAC would go along with that. The problem in the proposal is jsutifying the change to NB who doesn't get that these cadet officers feel too many ribbons detract from their credibity.

[arajca]

And at Earheart would take off Mitchell. I don't like that so much. I think the proposal here is better. At mitchell, it goes to just milestones (and other ribbons), the enlisted achievements drop off.

Which used to ba common practice among many cadet officers. Until the NCAC wanted to force their personal preference on all cadets.

[Guardrail]

And at Earheart would take off Mitchell. I don't like that so much. I think the proposal here is better. At mitchell, it goes to just milestones (and other ribbons), the enlisted achievements drop off.

CAP used to do that.  That's what I eventually did when I was a cadet officer (which was long after the CAP reg stating all achievement ribbons come off after the Mitchell is attained).  

BTW, when did NCAC decide all ribbons must be worn by cadets on all uniforms?

[DNall]

And at Earheart would take off Mitchell. I don't like that so much. I think the proposal here is better. At mitchell, it goes to just milestones (and other ribbons), the enlisted achievements drop off.

Which used to ba common practice among many cadet officers. Until the NCAC wanted to force their personal preference on all cadets.

Which I understand. In the military a lot of things like that are done by common practice & enforced by the culture, but in CAP you're geographically isolated from everyone & rarely in a group big enough to gain synergy & build cross-cutting cultural norms... In other words CAP regs on everything, but especially uniforms, should go well beyond the detail level in mil regs to explain in minute detail exactly what you want with very little options & do it as if speaking to a martian whose got nothing more than your words to go on (pics are fine but don't use them as a crutch). And for God's sake keep the thing up to date. It's an oline reg already.