Sun-N-Fun

[Eclipse]

...logically we could just remove the beret from NBB. 

Ned beat me to it.

The beret no longer represents what it did when the recipients completed what was then considered to be a challenging ES training activity in Iowa.

The best thing for everyone involved would be to rename the activity (CAP-Wise) to Airventure, redesign the insignia, ditch the berets (but allow those
who attended previously to wear them at the activity only) and move on.

Berets are 100% inappropriate for CAP members.

Period.

[NCRblues]

...logically we could just remove the beret from NBB. 

Ned beat me to it.

The beret no longer represents what it did when the recipients completed what was then considered to be a challenging ES training activity in Iowa.

The best thing for everyone involved would be to rename the activity (CAP-Wise) to Airventure, redesign the insignia, ditch the berets (but allow those
who attended previously to wear them at the activity only) and move on.

Berets are 100% inappropriate for CAP members.

Period.

yup, we should ditch our history and past because eclipse thinks its inappropriate 

[Eclipse]

yup, we should ditch our history and past because eclipse thinks its inappropriate

As someone from NCR, you should know the real history of BB and that it has nothing to do with Airventure.

[NCRblues]

yup, we should ditch our history and past because eclipse thinks its inappropriate

As someone from NCR, you should know the real history of BB and that it has nothing to do with Airventure.

I do, and so what? The current attendees doing the only ES job at the worlds largest fly in should not be told "hey, you cant have a beret anymore cause its not a challenging ES activity"....

That is straight up BULL eclipse... The training may not be a "rough" as it used to, but the job we do is AMAZINGLY challenging. A flight being called out at 230 am to search through 10,000 aircraft, among hundreds of metal buildings for a single ELT sounding. Or an overdue aircraft right when the cadets are supposed to go to bed. Having to man the flightlines, warbirds, ultralights and as many other things as the FAA, EAA, or NTSB can think of with limited man power is pretty challenging eclipse. Oh, and if someone crashes (like jack rousch last year) guess who gets called out for crowd control and line searching for parts for the NTSB...

So your argument that it is no longer challenging does not hold water...

[Eclipse]

That is straight up BULL eclipse... The training may not be a "rough" as it used to, but the job we do is AMAZINGLY challenging. A flight being called out at 230 am to search through 10,000 aircraft, among hundreds of metal buildings for a single ELT sounding. Or an overdue aircraft right when the cadets are supposed to go to bed. Having to man the flightlines, warbirds, ultralights and as many other things as the FAA, EAA, or NTSB can think of with limited man power is pretty challenging eclipse. Oh, and if someone crashes (like jack rousch last year) guess who gets called out for crowd control and line searching for parts for the NTSB...

Yes, CAP's presence and participation at Airventure is so "challenging" and "critical" that during the National Geographic documentary which featured the activity end-to-end, from empty field start to empty field end, Civil Air Patrol is not mentioned or seen once.

Not once.

[NCRblues]

That is straight up BULL eclipse... The training may not be a "rough" as it used to, but the job we do is AMAZINGLY challenging. A flight being called out at 230 am to search through 10,000 aircraft, among hundreds of metal buildings for a single ELT sounding. Or an overdue aircraft right when the cadets are supposed to go to bed. Having to man the flightlines, warbirds, ultralights and as many other things as the FAA, EAA, or NTSB can think of with limited man power is pretty challenging eclipse. Oh, and if someone crashes (like jack rousch last year) guess who gets called out for crowd control and line searching for parts for the NTSB...

Yes, CAP's presence and participation at Airventure is so "challenging" and "critical" that during the National Geographic documentary which featured the activity end-to-end, from empty field start to empty field end, Civil Air Patrol is not mentioned or seen once.

Not once.

You base your view point on beret on one show? WOW...guess what, CAP is generally ignored in most history's of WW2...guess we should pack it up and call it a day huh eclipse? I worry about the group you command....i really do....poor people

[Eclipse]

You base your view point on beret on one show? WOW...guess what, CAP is generally ignored in most history's of WW2...guess we should pack it up and call it a day huh eclipse? I worry about the group you command....i really do....poor people

How about you stay on track and can the personal comments, which generally get thrown when people have no response to the actual issue?

I understand the entire dynamic, and how in many cases, we are left at the alter despite incredible personal effort in these types of events, but with that said, CAP makes a lot of hay regarding being a core partner in Airventure, yet the only place we are ever mentioned in their collateral, if we're mentioned at all, is as a "sponsor" or "vendor", and a comprehensive documentary designed to show the minutia of running "the world's largest airport for two weeks" somehow was able to completely "miss" our involvement, even through random crowd shots and off-handed mentions?

See a single photo of CAP on their website?  Anywhere?

The only possible answer to the above, is that either we have relationship issues which are forcing us to the back of the room, or that we aren't quite as
big a part of the "show" as we think we are.

[NCRblues]

You base your view point on beret on one show? WOW...guess what, CAP is generally ignored in most history's of WW2...guess we should pack it up and call it a day huh eclipse? I worry about the group you command....i really do....poor people

How about you stay on track and can the personal comments, which generally get thrown when people have no response to the actual issue?

I understand the entire dynamic, and how in many cases, we are left at the alter despite incredible personal effort in these types of events, but with that said, CAP makes a lot of hay regarding being a core partner in Airventure, yet the only place we are ever mentioned in their collateral, if we're mentioned at all, is as a "sponsor" or "vendor", and a comprehensive documentary designed to show the minutia of running "the world's largest airport for two weeks" somehow was able to completely "miss" our involvement, even through random crowd shots and off-handed mentions?

See a single photo of CAP on their website?  Anywhere?

The only possible answer to the above, is that either we have relationship issues which are forcing us to the back of the room, or that we aren't quite as
big a part of the "show" as we think we are.

We do have a relationship issues. CAP signed a 99 year lease on the facility that we use. The warbirds of EAA came to CAP a few years ago and wanted the building and land our facility is on, we said no, we have a 99 year lease....it made them angry, and they take it out on CAP by not trumpeting our involvement. We are a large part eclipse....

Come up this year, ill show you around and you can see the large and challenging job we do....

[Eclipse]

Why are we involved at all if the management doesn't want us there?

It doesn't seem like a very good use of our time to be supporting a commercial endeavor for people who don't fully appreciate our being there for free.

[NCRblues]

Why are we involved at all if the management doesn't want us there?

Its not the WHOLE management....

The management is broken up into sections (warbirds, ultralights, vintage, flight line ops, so forth) The only one that is no happy with CAP is the warbirds guys, because they believe they are entitled to the land that CAP uses, because it happens to be close to the warbirds area....

CAP is loved by all the other "management" including by and large the fire department, and flight line ops.

[Spaceman3750]

Why are we involved at all if the management doesn't want us there?

Its not the WHOLE management....

The management is broken up into sections (warbirds, ultralights, vintage, flight line ops, so forth) The only one that is no happy with CAP is the warbirds guys, because they believe they are entitled to the land that CAP uses, because it happens to be close to the warbirds area....

CAP is loved by all the other "management" including by and large the fire department, and flight line ops.

So why isn't the rest of the management trumpeting our presence? Not to say I don't think that NBB isn't a very important part of Oshkosh, but it needs to be asked...

[NCRblues]

Why are we involved at all if the management doesn't want us there?

Its not the WHOLE management....

The management is broken up into sections (warbirds, ultralights, vintage, flight line ops, so forth) The only one that is no happy with CAP is the warbirds guys, because they believe they are entitled to the land that CAP uses, because it happens to be close to the warbirds area....

CAP is loved by all the other "management" including by and large the fire department, and flight line ops.

So why isn't the rest of the management trumpeting our presence? Not to say I don't think that NBB isn't a very important part of Oshkosh, but it needs to be asked...

I don't know, i don't have all the answers. Write a letter to the EAA and ask them...and yes before you even ask, i have wrote and called about it before.

[Fubar]

That is straight up BULL eclipse... The training may not be a "rough" as it used to, but the job we do is AMAZINGLY challenging. A flight being called out at 230 am to search through 10,000 aircraft, among hundreds of metal buildings for a single ELT sounding. Or an overdue aircraft right when the cadets are supposed to go to bed. Having to man the flightlines, warbirds, ultralights and as many other things as the FAA, EAA, or NTSB can think of with limited man power is pretty challenging eclipse. Oh, and if someone crashes (like jack rousch last year) guess who gets called out for crowd control and line searching for parts for the NTSB...

So your argument that it is no longer challenging does not hold water...

I don't think anyone was suggesting the kids at Airventure aren't working hard. At the same time, NBB doesn't own the corner on working hard at an event either. Hard work does not equal beret wear.

It's time for the beret to go and bring NBB in line with the rest of the NCSAs - where kids work hard, enjoy the experience and maybe get a patch out of it.