Uniform for promotion

[lordmonar]

Why should you go through the State Director?  Well, for one thing CAPR 10-1 prohibits CAP members from corresponding directly with any military activity except HQ CAP-USAF and CAP-USAF wing & state directors (the reg still has the old terms for them) unless otherwise specifically authorized by CAP regulations & manuals.

We are talking about a guy who was called by his Friend who said....hey can you come to my promotion ceremony.

If you want to carry CAPR 10-1 to these sort of limits...you must not talk to me because I am active duty any you cannot correspond directly with me!   

I understand CAPR 10-1 and I like it.  But it was not written for this situation.

[RiverAux]

In my experience, if you're Sq is actually on the base then within reason you can work with them on any local support issues.

Yes, I would agree and I would assume that if this were the case arrangements would have been made for appropriate contacts between CAP and the base to cover basic housekeeping details.  

Hmmm, a state director that wants CAP members to follow CAP regulations.  Yeah, he is on a real ego trip and obviously thinks he is way more important than he actually is.  

All I did was point out a basic fact of CAP protocol and you guys made quite a few leaps in your own assumptions.  

[DNall]

regulations & real life, don't confuse the two. latitude exists between there & your state director would define the limits of that latitude. If he's defining those limits as so restrictive as to be impractical, then that's bad. He should be encouraging local contacts, and discouraging cold calling the TAG's office to get more BDUs for your Sq across the state.

[Major_Chuck]

My recommendation on the uniform is blue service dress if you are able, tone down the CAP 'bling' so to speak.  (Some of us look like George Patton Wannabee's with all of our various ribbons and badges).

If you're prior service wear all your military ribbons and badges, maybe a CAP specialty badge or wings if authorized.

If you're not prior service wear a specialty badge and or wings and maybe your top six ribbons.

Remember that your ribbon rack is viewed like a resume' of who you are and what you've done.  You don't want to have to explain that you received a ribbon for recruiting seven people and another ribbon for passing a Chuck Yeager Aerospace Education test.  Wear the stuff that took a little effort to earn, not the silly ones you get for being a member for six months.

You want to blend in and be part of the group.  Not stand out like a sore thumb.

[Major_Chuck]

regulations & real life, don't confuse the two. latitude exists between there & your state director would define the limits of that latitude. If he's defining those limits as so restrictive as to be impractical, then that's bad. He should be encouraging local contacts, and discouraging cold calling the TAG's office to get more BDUs for your Sq across the state.

I used the State Director to okay my communicating directly with CAP-USAF and ACC/SE.  He thought it was a great idea.  NHQ signed off on it as well when I explained what I was trying to do. 

If you've already established contacts on the base it is kind of a moot point at this point to go back and start asking your State Director for permission.  You might copy him on your communications.  That of course is up to you and whatever relationship you have with him or her.

[lordmonar]

If you're not prior service wear a specialty badge and or wings and maybe your top six ribbons.

Except this is not one of the options in 39-1.

Remember that your ribbon rack is viewed like a resume' of who you are and what you've done.  You don't want to have to explain that you received a ribbon for recruiting seven people and another ribbon for passing a Chuck Yeager Aerospace Education test.  Wear the stuff that took a little effort to earn, not the silly ones you get for being a member for six months.

Why not?  Everything you do in cap takes some effort and about 90% of the USAF ribbons take "no effort" to earn.

Longevity, oversea tour, training ribbon, good conduct, marksman, PME, National Defense Service, AF outstanding unit, campaign medals, and most of the "point" medals are earned for just doing your job and staying out of trouble.

I am active duty and here is what I say to every CAP member cadet or senior.  Be proud of your bling.   Don't worry that look like Patton, because you earned them!  If someone asks about your ribbons explain them, don't try to make them sound like you saved the world just be factual and up front.

You want to blend in and be part of the group.  Not stand out like a sore thumb.

Well someone needs to tell USAF-CAP that!  If they wanted us to blend they would let us wear hard rank and blue shoulder marks!

[JohnKachenmeister]

Why would 39-1 prohibit the wearing of ribbons and specialty badges?  I suggested that the member wear the blue uniform without the service coat, and wear badges but not ribbons.  I'm not aware that 39-1 prohibits that.

[lordmonar]

Why would 39-1 prohibit the wearing of ribbons and specialty badges?  I suggested that the member wear the blue uniform without the service coat, and wear badges but not ribbons.  I'm not aware that 39-1 prohibits that.

The all, some, or none option is the one I am talking about.  Wither wear them all or don't. 

[lordmonar]

Why would 39-1 prohibit the wearing of ribbons and specialty badges?  I suggested that the member wear the blue uniform without the service coat, and wear badges but not ribbons.  I'm not aware that 39-1 prohibits that.

The all, some, or none option is the one I am talking about.  Wither wear them all or don't. 

Opps...should have check my references.....39-1 does allow all, some, or none.  My bad.

Anyway....I don't like the some option but that is a discussion for another thread.

[Hawk200]

Everything you do in cap takes some effort and about 90% of the USAF ribbons take "no effort" to earn.

Longevity, oversea tour, training ribbon, good conduct, marksman, PME, National Defense Service, AF outstanding unit, campaign medals, and most of the "point" medals are earned for just doing your job and staying out of trouble.

Most ribbons in the AF are indeed "stay clean" awards. However, it takes a little more to get "point' medals in all the places I've ever been. Anything worth points has to be written up. And for a large number of NCO's I've ever dealt with, that's too much work or they don't have time.

...If they wanted us to blend they would let us wear hard rank and blue shoulder marks!

We'll blend in anyway to most of the outsiders. You're average citizen doesn't know the difference between a Deputy Sheriff or a Highway Patrolman.

[lordmonar]

Most ribbons in the AF are indeed "stay clean" awards. However, it takes a little more to get "point' medals in all the places I've ever been. Anything worth points has to be written up. And for a large number of NCO's I've ever dealt with, that's too much work or they don't have time.

I got to say BS on this one.  First off everyone who ends a tour or PCS automatically gets a DECOR 6 generated and anyone who has a halfway decent string of 5 EPRs should not be a problem to write a decoration.  Given 3 years of bullest...it takes me maybe 3 hours to write an initial decoration.  Maybe a 2-3 hours of bullet research and then send it up the chain so they can bleed on it.

Any NCO who says they are too busy or it is too much work is a failure of an NCO...and you can say I said so!  Recognizing our people is one of our primary jobs!

But anyway...back to what I was saying.....most "point" decorations are just for doing your job, and having someone write it up for you.

[Hawk200]

Most ribbons in the AF are indeed "stay clean" awards. However, it takes a little more to get "point' medals in all the places I've ever been. Anything worth points has to be written up. And for a large number of NCO's I've ever dealt with, that's too much work or they don't have time.

I got to say BS on this one.  First off everyone who ends a tour or PCS automatically gets a DECOR 6 generated and anyone who has a halfway decent string of 5 EPRs should not be a problem to write a decoration.  Given 3 years of bullest...it takes me maybe 3 hours to write an initial decoration.  Maybe a 2-3 hours of bullet research and then send it up the chain so they can bleed on it.

Any NCO who says they are too busy or it is too much work is a failure of an NCO...and you can say I said so!  Recognizing our people is one of our primary jobs!

But anyway...back to what I was saying.....most "point" decorations are just for doing your job, and having someone write it up for you.

I don't have a string of 5 EPR's, mostly 4s. I didn't join the squadron ball teams or attend the Squadron Christmas parties just so I could get the next day off. I simply didn't wish to associate with a lot of the people I worked with off-duty. Most of what they did was drink. I have never been a drinker, and the few times I did associate with them, I was "encouraged" to consume. I refused to do so. I was labeled as a "loner", and as "not a team player."

I'll tell you a couple of little stories as far as decs go. At one assignment, I had served as a "mentor" for an Air Force Junior ROTC encampment. The officer who commanded the encampment told the active duty mentors to go to our orderly rooms and get a form with some info on it (I don't know the form, and I don't think that matters), and bring it to the Wing CC's office. I didn't even know what it was until later, but it was for an Achievement Medal. I did receive that one.

At the end of the tour, the NCOIC told me that since I had gotten an Achievement for the JROTC encampment, they weren't going to write me for another one. A few jobs I did there could have gotten me three AFAM's, seems like a Commendation would have been easy.

The second assigment I worked for a civilian (He was my actual supervisor, there were no military in that shop over the rank of SrA at the time.) He handed me the "End of Tour Rccomendation for Decoration", said I write it up, he'd sign. I worked on it, even asked for some help from a SMSgt, put it all together. Gave my supervisor the full package that the Senior NCO helped me work on. I never received that dec.

[shorning]

I never received that dec.

Did you ever follow up on it?  Things sometimes get lost in the shuffle.  If it's important to you, you should have followed up on it.  Either way, it's a lesson to remember when you're writing awards for others.

[Smokey]

Well,   thanks all for the input....I really appreciate it.

Protocol must be on a long holiday break....they haven't answered the phone in a week.

I spoke today to the Commander's Secretary for the Base.....He is a Major General......her comments ...

If you are not participating in the ceremony (I am not) then service dress is out.   She told me to wear "uniform of the day", which at the base is either BDU or flight suit.   I don't own BDUs ( I'm a pilot/PA/SE so no need for BDUs) so I guess it is the flight suit.  I told her I did not want to stand out as a a beacon so her advise was ...flight suit.   Besides, I haven't seen anyone in blues and/or service dress on base since I went to a retirement at the same club for a col two years ago.  Last summer when a friend assumed command of a squadron on base, he advised me to come in flight suit and that's what everyone there, including a Brig Gen (Select) wore.

Like was said...I didn't want to overdress and stand out like Leon the Neon or a Hollywood pimp.

Thanks all   .....glad you are here.

[lordmonar]

I don't have a string of 5 EPR's, mostly 4s.

Well not to put things bluntly...but if you supervisor did not think you were a 5...he also probably does not think you deserve a decoration, and I would have to agree with him, not personally knowing you.

I have met some bad supervisor and I know it can be frustrating sometimes, but bottom line is that you have to give your supervisor the ammunition to write you a decoration and if you are not rated at the top it makes it that much harder to justify a decoration.

Granted for specific achievements your over all ratings should not matter that much..and that is proved by the fact you got a medal for working the AFJROTC encampment.

If you would like to get more decorations....get your ratings up to a 5....ask your supervisor straight up what you need to go do to get a 5 and do your best.

Support for the squadron, community activities and off duty education are the three big areas that most people I have supervised need the most effort in.

It is your career, you have to make the effort to be the best if you want your supervisor to recognize you.

[Psicorp]

Well,   thanks all for the input....I really appreciate it.

Protocol must be on a long holiday break....they haven't answered the phone in a week.

I spoke today to the Commander's Secretary for the Base.....He is a Major General......her comments ...

If you are not participating in the ceremony (I am not) then service dress is out.   She told me to wear "uniform of the day", which at the base is either BDU or flight suit.   I don't own BDUs ( I'm a pilot/PA/SE so no need for BDUs) so I guess it is the flight suit.  I told her I did not want to stand out as a a beacon so her advise was ...flight suit.   Besides, I haven't seen anyone in blues and/or service dress on base since I went to a retirement at the same club for a col two years ago.  Last summer when a friend assumed command of a squadron on base, he advised me to come in flight suit and that's what everyone there, including a Brig Gen (Select) wore.

Like was said...I didn't want to overdress and stand out like Leon the Neon or a Hollywood pimp.

Thanks all   .....glad you are here.

Are you sure you don't want to wear the TPU??   Just kidding, sir.    Good job getting advice from the General's secretary.  Good luck, sir, and have great time!

[Smokey]

Like I said....I don't want to look like a Hollywood pimp....therefore no TPU

[ColonelJack]

While I would never tell someone what to think of something ... I rather resent the idea that the Corporate Service Coat looks like a "pimp" outfit.  I don't look like a pimp in mine.

Jack

[JohnKachenmeister]

While I would never tell someone what to think of something ... I rather resent the idea that the Corporate Service Coat looks like a "pimp" outfit.  I don't look like a pimp in mine.

Jack

Well, try getting a bigger car.

[Hawk200]

I have met some bad supervisor and I know it can be frustrating sometimes, but bottom line is that you have to give your supervisor the ammunition to write you a decoration.

Ammunition? Like writing my own package, asking the assistance of a senior NCO to write it, and handing it to my supervisor with the only requirement being his signature? Is that the ammo you're talking about? Or is that somehow not enough?

If you would like to get more decorations....get your ratings up to a 5....ask your supervisor straight up what you need to go do to get a 5 and do your best.

To me that sounds like a copout. "No 5 EPR? Screw you, then."  Doesn't matter anymore though.

Support for the squadron, community activities and off duty education are the three big areas that most people I have supervised need the most effort in.

Squadron functions? I believed that I have failed to make a point. Most of the squadron "activities" I've ever been to included alcohol. I rarely consume. Not consuming got me labeled as "not a team player". I didn't want to party with drunks. I would be happy to accept any reasonable explanation as to why that is wrong.

Community activities: Primarily CAP. Blood donations (Red Cross). Helped deliver toys on a couple Christmases. Not much other than that, those were the few times when being a non-drinker didn't seem to matter. Didn't really know what else to do. But, yeah, definitely not enough.

Education: Something that I was definitely woefully ignorant of. Yeah I got the briefings, but the impact of education on career was never really conveyed. I know it now (also too late for the military career), starting college in the spring.