Wearing the Flight Suit While Training for Observer

[Hawk200]

This property of the USAF flight suit is degreaded over time as the user washes the suit.  Beleive it or not, NOMEX looses the majority of this property when laundered and machine dried 10-12 times. It is completely lost if you ever wash it in fabric softener, or scented detergent

I don't think so. Don't know where you got that myth from, but that's incorrect. Nomex will maintain it's fire resistant properties for the duration of it's life, the protection is integral to the material, not some kind of treatment. What you're talking about seems true for permethrin, but not Nomex.

Protection to the wearer can degrade if the suit becomes thin. That's why they should be carefully maintained. Running it through an extra rinse cycle is advised to remove all detergent. Of course, this also keeps them from being itchy. Same for fabric softener.

[sleepyboyd]

Thats the lesson I received from Life Support in Navigator School 5 years ago.  They may have had it wrong....

[Hawk200]

Thats the lesson I received from Life Support in Navigator School 5 years ago.  They may have had it wrong....

They were seriously mistaken then. I've dealt with Life Support (Air Force) and ALSE (Army), and that little gem has never come up. I've heard a few people try to get new suits using that, but it never worked.

Twenty years ago it was a myth, apparently one that is still persisting. I've got flightsuits and A2CUs in my closet that look barely used, and they've all had more than 10 or 12 washes. I have an extremely old one that is getting threadbare, just haven't taken the time to cut it into rags yet. I wouldn't use it for the simple fact that it has less material in it, not because the Nomex reached some non existant expiration date.

Check out Dupont's website, it's got a little more info.

[SarDragon]

Look up Nomex on the DuPont web site, and also read the Wikipedia article.

I messed around with a trashed flight suit a while back, and did some allegedly abusive things to it (detergent, soap, fabric softener, etc), and didn't notice any big differences. I used a gas kitchen stove and some mechanicals to keep the various pieces of fabric a consistent distance from the flame.

[a2capt]

Heh, yeah. If washing it was bad for it, just imagine actually using it during a bit more action than we're used to seeing.

[flyboy53]

Q: How are you training for Observer when you haven't been a scanner?

BITD (a Wednesday BTW) I became an Observer without becoming a Scanner.  Have no idea if that process has changed, but in the early 90s you just had to fly 2 or 3 training flights in the Scanner seat for familiarization and take the Scanner ECI (correspondence course).  Being a qualified Scanner was not a prerequisite to become an Observer.  At the time I think 1% of CAP knew that and I'd get questioned every time I'd show up to SAREX's to fly as an Observer.

Same way I got it, except that I had most of the training (ground school stuff) complete as a cadet, took both the observer and scanner ECI courses as soon as I turned senior.  Got my mission (two days) as a scanner to get that qualification, went to the next mission (also two days), and came home a qualified observer.

Me, too, but I earned my rating the first time in 1972 and requalified in 2003.

[sleepyboyd]

Wow, looked it up, and I stand corrected on the NOMEX thing...   

Thats just even more reason to go buy a used one if it does not loose that property.  Maybe I can find some folks in the AF who want to get rid of thier "old" suits...lol j/k

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Wow, looked it up, and I stand corrected on the NOMEX thing...   

Thats just even more reason to go buy a used one if it does not loose that property.  Maybe I can find some folks in the AF who want to get rid of thier "old" suits...lol j/k

Yes, I thought it was awesome when I learned that the effectiveness of nomex is not affected washing. It has way more to do with the actual material than any chemical treatments.

Also, I got lucky and got my hands on a suit that is in really good condition, it is not nomex, the material is aramid, I don't know what that material is, but I am told it is still really good stuff. It came courtesy of my squadron.

[SilverEagle2]

Aramid is one of the generic/technical names for Nomex

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Aramid is Nomex

Oh, awesome, I had no idea, the only thing I have ever had like the sort was when the Army issued us gloves that actually said nomex.

[SilverEagle2]

More correctly stated, Nomex is an Aramid fabric.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

More correctly stated, Nomex is an Aramid fabric.

Is there really a difference between something labeled "NOMEX" and "ARAMID?"

[SilverEagle2]

Manufacture preference perhaps.

[SarDragon]

Nomex is the DuPont brand name for their version of aramid fiber.