NEW CLS

WESSginger · April 05, 2011, 02:51:48 PM

Quote from: elipod on April 05, 2011, 12:40:17 AM
Alright....seriously. I think you might want some real feedback on this thread rather than some un-schooled 'kid' who thinks that PAWG is the best, and who doesn't even know how to spell 'idiot'.

First, let me begin by saying, I am from PA Wing, and have been all my five years so far in CAP. I attended PAWG CLS or "RCLS" in June 2009. It was a great learning experience. But I have to agree that they DO use it as a 'feeder', and as a REQUIREMENT to staff other schools in PAWG.

I recently had a cadet transfer from NY Wing to my Squadron. He had been to Basic ENC, and had already staffed NY Wing ENC also. Needless to say, we had to deny his Mitchell promotion, due to his ignorance of the program. (He now is one of my most respected Cadet Staff, after some thorough training).

By saying that above ^ , I do believe that CLS should be considered as a requirement to staff at an ENC. It does prepare you considerably.

What do you all think?

Wait? You had to deny it because he had not attended your wing's CLS program?

elipod · April 05, 2011, 03:39:11 PM

Alright. I retract what I said.. Your right. It isn't supposed to be used as a 'seeder'.

Could this be partly why PAWG did not get RCLS qualification this year? Other than the major changes to the whole CLS Program..

Bluelakes 13 · April 06, 2011, 03:23:18 PM

Quote from: elipod on April 05, 2011, 03:39:11 PM
Could this be partly why PAWG did not get RCLS qualification this year? Other than the major changes to the whole CLS Program..

What major changes? The entrance requirement? I, and two other region I speak frequently to, have been running RCLS as close to COS as possible, so I do not see any major changes in the new 52-16.

elipod · April 06, 2011, 03:46:32 PM

Correct me if I am wrong about this...

I understand that MANY wings have had RCLS certification in the past. Like, more than several per region. Now I have been led to understand that only one wing per region will have RCLS accreditation. Is this the case?

I would consider that a major change, No?

Bluelakes 13 · April 06, 2011, 04:30:02 PM

GLR routinely runs 3-4 RCLS hosted by Wings usually during their Encampments. This year we will probably have less, but at least 2 that I know of.

There is nothing wrong with a Wing holding an RCLS, it's even allowed in the regs, R52-16 8-7.c: Each region must offer at least one RCLS per year, or conduct a school in cooperation with a neighboring region. Wings may host RCLS, with approval from region headquarters.

argentip · April 06, 2011, 05:03:37 PM

Quote from: elipod on April 05, 2011, 12:40:17 AM
I recently had a cadet transfer from NY Wing to my Squadron. He had been to Basic ENC, and had already staffed NY Wing ENC also. Needless to say, we had to deny his Mitchell promotion, due to his ignorance of the program. (He now is one of my most respected Cadet Staff, after some thorough training).

Why would deny a Mitchell promotion if he had completed a Basic Encampment? Is it a requirement in PAWG to also complete CLS before Mithcell?

elipod · April 06, 2011, 05:49:05 PM

Quote from: argentip on April 06, 2011, 05:03:37 PM
Quote from: elipod on April 05, 2011, 12:40:17 AM
I recently had a cadet transfer from NY Wing to my Squadron. He had been to Basic ENC, and had already staffed NY Wing ENC also. Needless to say, we had to deny his Mitchell promotion, due to his ignorance of the program. (He now is one of my most respected Cadet Staff, after some thorough training).

Why would deny a Mitchell promotion if he had completed a Basic Encampment? Is it a requirement in PAWG to also complete CLS before Mithcell?

No. It is most definitely NOT a requirement for Mitchell promotion.. He did not demonstrate the leadership and professionalism that is in accordance with the grade of C/2d Lt.

However, after some training, he is one of my most respected Cadets.

CAPcadet902 · April 17, 2011, 06:20:24 AM

First I'm not an un-schooled kid. Secondly, i'm a high ranking cadet and I know for a fact that we are trying to make our RCLS program a mandatory requirement in PAWG to be an officer and a staff member at any PAWG school. That includes those rangers too. They need to come to us to get trained on leadership. IF I had my way we'd give them a 3 week course and then they may understand.

PAWG RCLS is the oldest running program in all the wings

SarDragon · April 17, 2011, 07:07:49 AM

Your profile say that you are 21. Being a cadet and being 21 are mutually exclusive. Which is it?

I suggest that you review our Membership Code of Conduct prior to making any further posts. Calling someone an idiot is not acceptable.

MSG Mac · April 17, 2011, 08:06:31 AM

Quote from: CAPcadet902 on April 17, 2011, 06:20:24 AM
First I'm not an un-schooled kid. Secondly, i'm a high ranking cadet and I know for a fact that we are trying to make our RCLS program a mandatory requirement in PAWG to be an officer and a staff member at any PAWG school. That includes those rangers too. They need to come to us to get trained on leadership. IF I had my way we'd give them a 3 week course and then they may understand.

PAWG RCLS is the oldest running program in all the wings

If you're going to say thay you are not an un-schooled kid, list your qualification to prove that point! When you state that we are trying to make RCLS a mandatory requirement to be an officer and or a staff member at any PAWG school, are you aware that we means you and I and truthfully I am not involved with RCLS. If you're using the Royal we, it implies that you are solely responsible for the PAWG RCLS, are you?? By the way it is illegal to require any additional requirements for cadet advancements than called for in CAPR 52-16.
P.S. Being the oldest RCLS implies no further quality than being the oldest, nothing else.

fyrfitrmedic · April 17, 2011, 01:35:09 PM

Quote from: CAPcadet902 on April 17, 2011, 06:20:24 AM
First I'm not an un-schooled kid. Secondly, i'm a high ranking cadet and I know for a fact that we are trying to make our RCLS program a mandatory requirement in PAWG to be an officer and a staff member at any PAWG school. That includes those rangers too. They need to come to us to get trained on leadership. IF I had my way we'd give them a 3 week course and then they may understand.

PAWG RCLS is the oldest running program in all the wings

You're not exactly bringing credit to yourself, your home unit or your home wing with the uniformly low caliber of your postings here on CAP Talk thus far. "Embarassment" is a good, polite word to sum up what I've seen thus far.

I would strongly suggest that you lurk more, read more, do your homework, and perhaps grow up a bit before you resume posting here. If your posts are any reflection upon your performance as a cadet, you seem like a fairly poor excuse for a "high ranking cadet."

elipod · April 17, 2011, 01:45:48 PM

That is true 'fyrfitrmedic'... I would not want people to think this is what PAWG is like. However, sadly.. I have met many a cadet who displayed similar attitudes.
Now, 'CAPcadet902', I am not trying to bash you or anything, just think about the fact that we 'PAWG', are not the best, before you post. Or else, you WILL come across as ignorant.

Big_Ed · April 19, 2011, 07:46:37 PM

indeed

CAPcadet902 · April 19, 2011, 11:08:13 PM

Thanks Big Ed.

Patterson · April 20, 2011, 12:35:49 AM

So if the PAWG CLS course is the best, why was it not selected as an accredited RCLS this summer?

CLS should mirror COS, and should be the best leadership course a CAP Cadet will attend in their career. Unfortunately like the situation in PA Wing, some Wings used the CLS course as a funnel for "staff Cadets" at other Wing Activities. Because of that, the Cadets that attended the "Feeder CLS" courses learned only one thing, which was how to run the Encampment.

I also was interested to read that PA Wing will continue their "CLS", yet I am curious why? It gives no Cadet the credit they need for advancement in the program. My guess is it is a "feel good" course where a group of friends get together to continue on the traditions that we are trying to get away from.

Eclipse · April 20, 2011, 01:39:58 AM

Units and wings are free to present whatever training they want, as long as things are clear.

Terms such as "RCLS", "COS", and "Encampment", have specific meaning and requirements within our program, but there are no regs that say
you can't run similar or even identical activities in a respective wing as long as the participants know there is no ribbon.

Training for training's sake has value, though a properly managed wing's "Program" should be insuring that large-scale activities do not conflict or
dilute other activities within the same wing or region.

sarmed1 · April 20, 2011, 12:49:17 PM

The benefit to "PAWG" style CLS courses is; What do you do for your summer if you dont/cant go to a NCSA and you arent/cant/dont want to staff encampment? Sit at home and Xbox? It has nothing (or mostly nothing) to do with any sort of "traditions" CAP is "trying to get away from". In the past 10 years I have seen an influx of other than encampment wing summer activites around the country, but until recent years, those were your choices, encampment staff or NCSA. Given most wings conduct some sort of ES school's; but as stated in numerous locations on this board, ES isnt part of the cadet program & honestly not everyone on the cadet side is interested in ES (or flight training, the other common nonencampment summer activity)

As a CAP-RAP (and CAP member beofre) I have sat in and observed and presented topics for PAWG CLS, and never saw it as a PAWG encampment specifc feeder school. I have actually lamented to other wings I have been a part of on the benefits of leadership development schools as a requirement to activity staffing. (TXWG for example has a fantastic non-summer activity leadership development program) In so much as some squadrons have in the past been lacking in leadership development at the local level; and then feeding the same training defecient personnel into the encampment setting with no more pre-requiste than a grade minimum and previous encampment attendence.

mk

noodles · April 24, 2011, 02:06:06 PM

Two NER programs--one in NH (NORTH) http://nerrclsnorth.weebly.com/ and one in NJ (SOUTH) http://encampment.njwg.cap.gov/RCLShome.html.

Both are $75 per cadet. Both in July. Open to all.

NORTH closes for applications on 21 May. SOUTH closes 1 June.

Give them a look. You should like what you see.

onetimeoneplace · April 30, 2011, 02:15:15 AM

Here's my view on the whole situation:

I was in the inaugural class of the NJWG RCLS (and the only cadet from PAWG). Overall, I can say that a huge deal of planning went into the entire activity. It was probably the best experience I've ever had (so far) in the 2 3/4 years that I have been in this program, over Blue Beret (which is a close 2nd) and other events.

On the topic of PAWG CLS: I agree that it is a good learning experience, but where it differs from the other schools is its main focus. While RCLS (and COS) focuses on an academic-based curriculum, CLS focuses on the real-time thinking part of leadership. Being not only a CAP cadet, but a Boy Scout and a member of my school's marching band (it is a big leadership job), I definitely agree that thinking on your feet is a very important aspect of leadership, because you have to manage an ever-changing whirlwind of activity around you.

I won't go into any criticism of any program here. All I'm saying is that both RCLS and CLS are very good programs, and will provide an equally important learning experience to any intermediate-level cadet.