"In Your Face" encampment

[Dracosbane]

As a cadet, and a cadet officer, I had to learn the difference between yelling and projecting.  Being loud and obnoxious at a person and being loud and obnoxious at a whole group of people is completely different.  Even as a senior member working with cadets, I never would consider yelling at a cadet.  Correcting something is easiest quietly face to face if in front of people, or one on one later. 

That said, I have no objection to cadets being loud from across the drill pad, projecting commands or general corrections (i.e. "get in step").  Especially due to the fact that our armory has helicopters taking off and hovering around on a regular basis while we're outside.

[IceNine]

The induce stress and work under pressure theory of training has no place at an encampment.  Especially not for basic cadets.

  These young people are receiving enough actual stress that we have no place making artificial stress.  This will be the first time a lot of cadets have spent a night away from home.  And for the others this will likely be their first time away from their squadron staff.  Couple unfamiliar faces with severe changes in sleep pattern, eating habits, physical activity, and mental exercise.  What other stress do you really think is necessary?

  The purpose of these activities is education, retention, and fun.  Encampment is not bmt it is a chance to see CAP outside the 4 walls of the home unit.  Its an opportunity to learn group dynamics.  Its the chance to finally learn the things that are difficult at best when its the same 6 personalities in the room all the time.

  Cadets should walk away from encampment with something they didn't have when they walked in.  Do you want that to be disatain or a broken spirit?  Or would you rather it be self confidence, focus, attention to detail, and fundamental skills to make squadron life easier?

  Creating a positive, fun, upbeat environment doesn't have to take the place of professionalism, respect and hardwork.  You can't teach if they aren't listening.  And after a short period yelling or "projecting" becomes just loud noises.

  I have become quite adept at correcting problems with subtle well placed observations.  And you can be heard extremely well if you can turn on the lightbulb that helps them decide they made a mistake.  If you have to tell the why x was the wrong thing they will do it again.  If you help them decide x was wrong they will at least think twice.

[caphornbuckle]

I have been pondering the thought of why CAP doesn't have an Air Force Basic Military Training Familiarization Course.  We have familiarization courses for some of the AF technical training courses, why not hit the one most have to go through before entering tech school?

That way, at least, some cadets would know the difference between an encampment and BMT as well as other benefits that would help CAP look good to the Air Force.

[BillB]

A AF BMT Famiarization Course could probably be done on the Region level. The problem would be getting AD USAF NCOs to be instructors. At the Regiion level, USAF Base support might be possible complete with training staff. If you put this at the National level, travel expenses would be to high for many cadets. And, at the Wing level, USAF support may not be available. Kick the idea up the chain of command because I'd bet, Cadets would be interested in attending.
Many of the old style Summer Encampments were run as a modified BMT program and cadets loved it. It would have to be limited to cadets that have completed an encampment, earned at minimum Wright Brothers, and probably require cadets to remove all grade insignia. (cadets would have to earn duty assignments, not be given positions based on earned grade) USAF staff would be in all command positions, with CAP Seniors in staff positions only.

[Eclipse]

I have been pondering the thought of why CAP doesn't have an Air Force Basic Military Training Familiarization Course.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_of_the_Flies

[coudano]

First i think it is a common misconception of cadets that one needs to be stern, or a jerk to be an effective leader.  I think the yelling stems somewhat from that.  In reality, if you need to yell to get your point across effectively, it only demonstrates a lack of communication and leadership (and social) skills.  It is often the first, easiest, and sometimes unfortunately only tool available to a student leader.

That said, there is a right tool for a right job, and raising ones voice is and can be a valid application for some situations.  The key is learning when and where to (and not ot) use it appropriately.

Most often in the military, in training environments, it is used to induce stress.
Now is that appropriate and or desirable for a cap encampment?

[ZigZag911]

We need to teach them, not terrorize nor traumatize them!

Also, in the immortal words of Michael Corleone (and this is a difficult lesson for trainer and trainee to learn)" "It's not personal...it's business."

In other words, we have a mission, and it should be done effectively, properly, and, as far as possible, objectively -- treat everyone fairly.

[Raja1020]

I personally think that it would be better if all staff during encampments got some straight forward examples of whats good whats not, I mean, if all the staff is totally clear with all of this then theres no confusion and this thread wouldn't exist, no offense to anyone just saying there wouldn't be a need for this if we were more clear.

[raivo]

I personally think that it would be better if all staff during encampments got some straight forward examples of whats good whats not, I mean, if all the staff is totally clear with all of this then theres no confusion and this thread wouldn't exist, no offense to anyone just saying there wouldn't be a need for this if we were more clear.

... if there's anything to be taken away from this thread (and the myriad others on the subject), it's that there is no clear line.

[dwb]

I personally think that it would be better if all staff during encampments got some straight forward examples of whats good whats not, I mean, if all the staff is totally clear with all of this then theres no confusion and this thread wouldn't exist, no offense to anyone just saying there wouldn't be a need for this if we were more clear.

Human behavior is not always straightforward and clear.  If a comprehensive list of Do and Do Not could be constructed, it would already be part of the training.  Everyone knows the obvious cases (e.g., don't punch a cadet in the face), it's all those gray areas where the context matters so much that are harder to teach.

What we should strive for is getting people to exercise good judgment.  Unfortunately, good judgment is often learned by studying one's own poor judgments!

[Eclipse]

What we should strive for is getting people to exercise good judgment.  Unfortunately, good judgment is often learned by studying one's own poor judgments!

Exactly, and the problem with "lists" in regards to human behavior is how creative we are as a species, as well as the mental gymnastics people will go through in order to justify their own behavior is "OK, because I know better..." (etc.).

[Cool Mace]

From a cadet perspective on this. When I was getting ready for my basic encampment, I couldn't wait. I was told there would be a lot of yelling, but because the had a reason to, not just because. I don't see any problem with creating stress. Some cadets need it. I've been on staff for 6 encampments (I'm the encampment whore in my WG) and I never had any problem with the cadets I yelled at as a Sqd. 1stSgt, or group 1stSgt. In fact. I had a cadet come up to me a year later (after I was the group 1st Sgt) and told me that he was afraid of me at encampment, but he knew if he needed something, I was there. And that he hasn't learned so much from one person in such little time.

I think there are WAY too many SR's. that were not cadets think that we need to be like the boy scouts. I've seen a lot of cadets leave CAP to join the boy scouts because it's getting way too soft. If you even think about raising your voice for whatever reason, there's always a Sr that will think it's wrong, and try to get you in trouble.

Every cadet I've talked to in my Wing (and it's been well over 100) thinks it needs to be harder. We've have become too relaxed...

Just IMHO.

[BillB]

In talking to cadets at a recent encampment (2004), when asked wehat they thought about encampment, the majority said it was to easy. Without exception they wanted a more "boot camp" type activity. These were cadets in the 12 to 14 year age group thus have had no CPP training. The cadets asked about the old style encampments they heard about from some of the senior members who were cadets in the 60's and 70's. Then beds were ripped up and tossed on the barracks floor with measurements were wrong, cadet NCOs yelled at the 1st year cadets, stuck pencils in shoulder patches is sewing was poor (National used those photos for years of C/Col Frye of Florida Wing putting a pencil in the shoulder patch, three years after that happened to him as a basic cadet)
Cadets said there was to much mentoring, and not enough military discipline at encampments. One even said what I've been saying, encampments should correct what a Squadron teaches incorrectly or not at all. However with CPPT, the encampments of the past can no longer exist, even if that's what cadets want.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I have heard the same thing from every cadet that I have asked, they all want a harder more "in your face" encampment. They all hear it called "Basic Encampment" the key word there being BASIC. They want that military, Drill Sergeant yelling, doing push ups when you mess up, getting things tossed, being told your nothing but trainees not worthy of the title of your rank. They really do want these things. Many cadets want the military training aspect that only a military organization could give. Some have told me that if there wasn't going to be anything like military training, they would have just joined the boy scouts. I wish we could give them what they want.

However, we have to comply with the CPP. It is not just to protect us, it is also to protect the cadets. Not all want this type of training, and some couldn't handle it. We need to cater to as many of the cadets as possible.

Now, all of this being said, I won't nor do I think that anyone will go up to their cadets and start yelling at them or snapping at them to do push ups because their boots aren't up to par (oh yeah this sort of stuff happened all the time WIWAC). It is just food for thought, how do we go about giving the tougher cadets who want the harsh military basic training that they want?

[Eclipse]

Actually, they think they want that, until they really get it, at which time we start hearing from mothers.

For the record, they are no longer referred to as "basic" encampments.  They are simply "encampments", with all
activities conferring credit, regardless of schedule, using the same curriculum outline.

The challenge isn't with what cadets think they want, but the fact that we do not have the ability to properly train the
staff cadets in where the line is.

In most wings, the only thing required to be on an encampment staff is one under your belt and the initiative to apply.
Some wings run staff selection activities, but even those are usually just a weekend.  Beyond that, cadets bring their
stripes or pips, and the same inconsistent experience as the newbs in their charge.

DI's, TI's, RDC's, and similar, in addition to being consistently trained and personally experienced in military ways themselves,
receive a significant amount of training and mentoring as to how to properly "break/fix" recruits.

Further, as we have pointed out a number of times - encampments are not supposed to be the equivalent of basic cadet training,
especially when you consider we have Chiefs in the flights.  Cadets come into encampment with the cadet equivalence of BMT already done.  Encampments are more akin to the first tech school, where skills are reinforced, not instilled, and while still strict, not nearly akin to BMT.

[PA Guy]

Actually, they think they want that, until they really get it, at which time we start hearing from mothers.

Amen to that.

[Sleepwalker]

Eclipse:
Actually, they think they want that, until they really get it, at which time we start hearing from mothers.

PA Guy:
Amen to that.

Having worked 7 Encampments, I completely agree with you two! 

[RiverAux]

Compared to other CAP encampments and NCSAs, it is has always been my impression that the PJ courses were the toughest, most "military" ones we offered.  Even accounting for the distance and cost elements I suspect that if a lot of cadets REALLY wanted this sort of experience there would be several thousand applications for those courses every year. 

[Ned]

I don't think there is really much question that cadets want a military experience in CAP.  And that includes encampment.

After all, if they didn't want a military experience they undoubtedly would have joined any of the good non-military youth programs out there.  Some of which even offer uniforms, aerospace and career education, and various life skills. 

Our outstanding cadet program has had a military foundation for nearly 70 years.

The issue as we have discussed in this thread is how to provide a quality experience without being too lax or too strict.  And a big part of that is trying to come up with a common set of definitions and "tools" to help make the experience more (pardon the expression) "uniform" across the 52 wings and hundreds of squadrons.

Until we can reasonably compare and contrast a given situation to describe how to set the appropriate tone, we are going to be stuck with one of those classic CAPTalk "Tastes Great! Less Filling!" kinds of arguments, which tend to be unresolvable.

(Which certainly has never stopped us before . . . )

[BillB]

Having Commanded many Encampments under the old system, I've never had a problem with mothers. Sure you will have young cadets maybe 2 out of a 300 cadet encampment) homesick on the 3rd day, but by the end of Encampment they want to stay another week. That also reflected by experience at my first Encampment. Hated it for the first few days, than learned things that my home Squadron never taught and I loved the rest of the encampment.
One problem is Senior members that never attended an encampment as a cadet. They have no concept of what the cadets want, or even how encampments work. The "protect the children" that flows through CAP is opposite of what the cadets joined CAP for, the military aspect. Most cadet staffs I've seen at encampments are rough on the cadets for the first few days, followed by individual help to each cadet when needed.