Call sign changes

[arajca]

IAW AF policies, CAP will be changing its call sign structure. The only known component at this time is the new call signs will contain a two digit number - no more three digit callsign numbers.

There is a possibility the CAPFLIGHT call signs may change also, but that has not been determined as the CAPFLIGHT callsigns are for the FAA.

This came down from the AF via CAP/DC.

The wing communcations personnel are discussing this issue via email list.

Relatedly, the Communications regs are being revised. Or, rather, rewritten. According to CAP/DC this wil not be band-aid update. There will be significant changes in the communications program based on the new world we live in. The new regs should be going to the national Communciations Committee within the next couple months then be posted for member review. I expect that when they are posted for review, they will not be on the open site, but rather, on the secure NTC Communications site. Details have not been made available yet.

[pixelwonk]

IAW AF policies, CAP will be changing its call sign structure. The only known component at this time is the new call signs will contain a two digit number - no more three digit callsign numbers.

The DC before our current one made squadrons and their member's and/or equipment have four-digit call signs, resulting in much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Without much more info about it, I can't presume to judge, but I think that 2 digits will be a welcome change in my wing.

[MIKE]

Will the two digit call sign provide for enough unique call signs within a wing?  It seems like the new COMM equipment requirements have cut down on the number of active operators because their radios do not meet current standards and they do not wish to fork over the cash for a radio which will meet all established requirements for the foreseeable future.  I happen to be one of them.

In MAWG it was set up so that wing staffers had one and two digit call signs reserved.  Squadrons were issued call signs with three digits usually in a series which depended on the location of your unit. All squadrons in one area would have call signs in the 700 series for example... Of that the numbers would be further divided among units and some numbers would be reserved for positions within a squadron... If you knew the system you knew what unit the operator was from and possibly his/her position in that unit without even knowing their name.

[arajca]

The people looking at this mess and currently trying to figure that out. It looks like each wing will have multiple call signs - generally a base call sign and a number of suffixes to geographically divide the wing. Which means, if you move to a different part of the wing, you will need to get a new call sign.

Keep in mind that so far nothing besides the two digit number is fixed.

[Major_Chuck]

And this is to cut down on the confusion level???  I turned in my call sign last year when my radio became 'non compliant'.  Not having the money to purchase another radio and have it be deemed  'non compliant' in another year I just threw in the hat on communications.  If I need to use it I still have my license to talk and will use a CAP station when need be.

The people looking at this mess and currently trying to figure that out. It looks like each wing will have multiple call signs - generally a base call sign and a number of suffixes to geographically divide the wing. Which means, if you move to a different part of the wing, you will need to get a new call sign.

Keep in mind that so far nothing besides the two digit number is fixed.

[arajca]

And this is to cut down on the confusion level??? 

No. This is bring us into compliance with AF voice call sign regulations. National brought up the mess this would cause to the AF and was basically told "bring it on". National also asked about the possiblilty of getting an exemption to the two digit rule and was told simply "No."

[Matt]

tedda (Maj),

I'm not 100% sure what's happening with our wing call signs anymore....  Rumor had it, last I heard, we were letting either 3 or 4 digit call signs back.  With the exception of B73, he just kinda keeps that one to himself...

As for the rest, if we go to 2-digit call signs, doesn't that mean that only 99 people in a wing can have a call sign?  Because unless the regs change to accomodate it, we can't have different pro-signs.  WIWG, I know used to have 3, now we have 1 due to reg changes.

Matt

[arajca]

Part of the disussion around this topic is that there would be multiple call signs per wing. However, some practices tha would make our lives easier have been banned. ie. no XX Alpha, Bravo, etc; no specific callsigns based on the type of unit, such as vehicles/personnel, mobiles/base/portable, etc. And, just to keep things interesting, there may be a requirement to rotate call signs on a regular basis - like the military does.

[SarDragon]

Here's some of the spin I've heard. Call signs can be two words plus two numbers. Wings that currently have one word call signs can use a variety of second words to exten the number of available callsigns.

Fictitious example:

current callsign = Crook; wing has seven groups

Wing HQ/Staff - Crook Eagle 1 through 99
Group 1 - Crook Bear
Group 2 - Crook Lion
Group 3 - Crook Tiger
and so on

Wings that currently have two word call signs might need to make some changes.

[JaL5597]

Here's some of the spin I've heard. Call signs can be two words plus two numbers. Wings that currently have one word call signs can use a variety of second words to exten the number of available callsigns.

Fictitious example:

current callsign = Crook; wing has seven groups

Wing HQ/Staff - Crook Eagle 1 through 99
Group 1 - Crook Bear
Group 2 - Crook Lion
Group 3 - Crook Tiger
and so on

Wings that currently have two word call signs might need to make some changes.

That just sounds like an even bigger mess to me.  Expecially since I am in a wing which has a 2 word callsign (Charter Oak) and no groups.  I am curious to see what they say at the next staff call about this.

[Matt]

That just sounds like an even bigger mess to me. Expecially since I am in a wing which has a 2 word callsign (Charter Oak) and no groups. I am curious to see what they say at the next staff call about this.

Yep, sounds like something the AF would do....

[shorning]

You want to play with their freqs, you gotta play by their rules.  AFFMA isn't very flexible.  They play by their rules.

[JaL5597]

You want to play with their freqs, you gotta play by their rules.  AFFMA isn't very flexible.  They play by their rules.

I understand that.  I am just curious as to whats gonna happen. 

[Schmidty06]

As I understand, current AF callsigns are given on a "per unit" basis, meaning each squadron would have a different word prefix, and a standardized two-digit suffix.  Example, let's say squadron 1's call is "Spectre" and squadron 2's call is "Angel."  The 01 suffix would be for the unit commander, 02 his deputy, and etc down the line.

So, let's say Squadron 2's deputy wants to talk to Squadron 1's Latrine officer.  The conversation would probably sound something like this: "Spectre 99, this is Angel 02, We need you to restock HQ's "recepticles", over."

Now, this in no way, shape, or form makes things easy because you need to have a callsign list to know just who is who, especially in big wings.

Montana Wing currently has a three-digit, block-style callsign system.  Each squadron has a block of callsigns, usually with only 50 callsigns per block.

[arajca]

One of the concerns is what the AF Freq. Manager will call the "unit". Will it be the wing, group, squadron, or some other definition? I know the new AFI regard CAP lists the squadron as the basic operating unit in CAP, as do CAP regs, but until we know what they are going to call it, we're still guessing.

[Schmidty06]

I feel that we could handle squadron callsigns, but group doesn't seem to allow for enough available callsigns.

[arajca]

It's not what we coold or could not handle, it's what the AF says the unit is that will matter for this.

[shorning]

What could happen is the wings get a callsign, then each "unit" that needed a number would be assigned one.  By unit I do not mean group, squadron, or flight.  I mean "asset" like vehicles, aircraft, squadron. 

If we move to this system, I wouldn't be surprised if we needed to move away from the personal callsigns.  I know that would be a sore spot with CAP members, but no one in the AF has a "personal" callsign.  In fact no one has a "personal" radio.  People are assigned radios if they are needed to accomplish the mission. 

Interestingly, we could give a squadron one callsign, say "Hamster 51", and other "sub-units" could use a suffix.  For example, the squadron commander could be "Hamster 51A" (pronounced "Hamster Five One Alpha".  It just a thought.  On multi-place aircraft, the AF uses this method.  The pilot is "A", the co-pilot is "B", etc.  On large aircraft you use more letters.  In the past I've been "Bookshelf ##Q"  and "Razor ##S" (At least for training.  Operational callsigns were different) when I've needed to identify me specifically.  Otherwise we all used the same callsign (but we were on different nets).

It will be interesting to see what we end up with.

[arajca]

Unfortunetely, adding letters to a callsign, as easy as that is, is prohibited from what I have gathered from the discussion.

[shorning]

Well, it is and it isn't (in the AF).  It's definitely not a routine practice.  It's usually only used in very specific circumstance.  It really isn't a good solution for CAP any way.