Force protection and armed CAP members

[Eclipse]

These officers would be assigned to protect CAP members at the direction of the IC, and could also develop security plans for CAP facilities, coordinate with local police agencies, and assist local agencies in non-sworn duties in disasters (traffic direction, assistance to motorists in evacuations, etc.)  Open carry or concealed carry would have to be consistent with state law.

So somehow our regs that disallow law enforcement activities would allow for the creation of an internal special police force?  One with only the power to get one's self in trouble but no powers of arrest, etc?

If 911 is not enough, we stay home or in the rear, period.

[davidsinn]

Let's say you and a group of cadets are out in a farm field shooting your model rockets. Nice weather, everyone has been trained properly, should be a pretty safe activity? Low ORM right?

Now a guy walks up and you being a safety and CPT minded person nonchalantly place yourself between him and the cadets and strike up a conversation.

He pulls out a .357.

What do you do?

Under CAP regs, you get shot. Under my state's laws and outside of CAP he gets shot because I would have a personal protective device on me.

Think that's far fetched? Think again. This is a current event just, substitute a farmer for a group of cadets.

You don't have to go looking for danger.

Sometimes it will find you. I'm driving through Lowell later today on my way to Terre Haute so it's kind of on my mind.

Everyone should carry a firearm because a cop is too big to fit in your pocket.

[JohnKachenmeister]

There are three kinds of people.  Most people are "Sheep."  They cannot tolerate the thought of danger, and their only response is denial.  There are "Wolves" who prey upon the sheep unmercifully.  Then there are the "Sheep Dogs."  The sheep dogs look like wolves, have big teeth, but will not harm the sheep.  Instead, they face the wolves.  When the wolves strike the sheep, all the sheep can do is bleat helplessly.  When the wolves face the sheepdog, the wolves are forced to flee, or die.

I admit it.  I'm an unrepentant sheepdog.  I have spent my life protecting myself and others against violent persons.  It is a hard habit to break.  If I was unable to protect those who depend upon me for protection because I had no weapon when I faced a violent attack, I do not that I could live with myself.

Be a sheep if you want.  Fall on you knees before a violent predator and beg him to be merciful.  That is your choice.

If you are legally able to carry a weapon, and you leave your home without it, take a nice deep breath and say...

"Baaaaaaaa!"

   

[Eclipse]

OK, guys...your NRA is showing...

[JohnKachenmeister]

OK, guys...your NRA is showing...

You say that like its a bad thing.

[spacecommand]

I guess the next step is start equipping CAP aircraft with sidewinder missiles for defensive purposes, especially with all the recent UFO activities in Asia and 2012 just round the corner...  Helmets should also be made mandatory for all persons in CAP vehicles (to include vans and airplanes) for all passengers, to prevent head trauma in case of an accident. 

In CAPs 68 years of existence, how many CAP members have been killed when they have ran unto the Jersey Devil or a methlab out in the open woods? 
In the last 68 years how many firefighters/paramedics have been killed going into dangerous situations (too many)? Yet they still remain unarmed.  Those agencies typically have set policies when there is a dangerous situation, call the police.  I don't see why CAP has to be different from those agencies.

Of course:
"the police take too long" "they can't be everywhere" "a madman might show up" scenarios can go on and on. 

People are right you don't have to look for danger, sometimes danger can just show right up, however does that justify the creation of an internal police force of armed CAP members for the purposes of CAP activities and what CAP does?  In my opinion, no it doesn't. 

The world aint perfect, you can't take a loaded gun (or any gun for that matter) on an airplane but there's a remote possibility out there that some terrorist would want to hijack it, should passengers be able to carry guns on with them to defend themselves.  (again one of the many scenarios we can spend all day coming up with)

[Eclipse]

I guess the next step is start equipping CAP aircraft with sidewinder missiles for defensive purposes,

I think those would be considered offensive - flares and chaff would be defensive.

That would be sooooo sweet.  I want to be a Weapons Officer on a 172!

[Krapenhoeffer]

In EMS-land, we are unarmed, and we FREQUENTLY go into places that you NRA-CCW nuts would soil your pantaloons over.

And you know what the rule is? We don't go into areas where shooting is happening, until the Police have radioed "Area clear."

Do you know how I keep myself alive when I go into crime-infested areas? I keep cool, remain polite, and do my job.

Medical organization or not, both CAP ES and EMS have the same goal: to save lives. Handguns, anyway you look at them were originally created with one purpose in mind: to take life. The very opposite of what we are supposed to be doing.

And let's look at the deranged maniac argument, shall we? Every time a deranged maniac appears, it gets spammed by the news. I don't hear much about deranged maniacs on the news. Therefore, there aren't that many deranged maniacs around.

If you feel the need to walk around with a gun at all times, CAP isn't the organization for you.

Before we continue, yes, I am a bleeding heart liberal. And proud. And these NRA-parrot types are just the type of wannabee who have no place in CAP. They pose a threat to the organization, and the Lawyers are right in restricting the use of firearms by CAP members.

[RRLE]

probable physical harm to a disabled woman would constitute that.

In Florida "probable" isn't good enough, it has to be a real and immediate threat. And the reasonable man/woman test applies. A guy who is only 'peeved' is not an immeidate threat. Pistol packin' granny is in a heap of hot water if there were any witnesses at all.

[HGjunkie]

OK, guys...your NRA is showing...

Problem?

Krapenhoeffer, you sound like a pro-gun control advocate.

[HGjunkie]

probable physical harm to a disabled woman would constitute that.

In Florida "probable" isn't good enough, it has to be a real and immediate threat. And the reasonable man/woman test applies. A guy who is only 'peeved' is not an immeidate threat. Pistol packin' granny is in a heap of hot water if there were any witnesses at all.

PM sent.

[N Harmon]

In EMS-land, we are unarmed, and we FREQUENTLY go into places that you NRA-CCW nuts would soil your pantaloons over.

Oh, Please. You just said in the next sentence that you wait until the police have radioed "area clear". An urban environment secured by armed police officers is not the same thing as a wooded area where help is literally hours away.

Oh, and the "NRA-CCW nuts" name-calling? Is that an example of keeping cool, and remaining polite? Sorry, but that was uncalled for. A very good friend of mine is a contractor for a handful of cable companies, disconnecting cable television in neighborhoods where the cable company has encountered problems before. Now, you want to talk about calm and polite? I've never known a person to be as good at talking his way out of a fight as this guy. Yet he still carries that .357 in his tool belt because even he knows talking only gets you so far.

By the way, I know more than a few CAP members who have DF's ELTs to these same neighborhoods. So, don't take this as my trying to justify armed DF teams.

Before we continue, yes, I am a bleeding heart liberal. And proud. And these NRA-parrot types are just the type of wannabee who have no place in CAP. They pose a threat to the organization, and the Lawyers are right in restricting the use of firearms by CAP members.

Again with the name calling. So now because some of us are advocates for the 2nd amendment outside CAP, we have no place in CAP? The on top of that we're a THREAT to CAP? You have quite a bit of nerve throwing accusations like that around.

[HGjunkie]

Amen Harmon.

[Eclipse]

I've never known a person to be as good at talking his way out of a fight as this guy. Yet he still carries that .357 in his tool belt because even he knows talking only gets you so far

Gambling is probably a TOS violation (as would turning this discussion political), however I would bet you $10 that if his company ever found out he'd be fired on the spot.

Any cable guy that I got wind of with a gun would be explaining it to a police officer as he watched a different tech go into my house.

Ridiculous.

[cap235629]

I've never known a person to be as good at talking his way out of a fight as this guy. Yet he still carries that .357 in his tool belt because even he knows talking only gets you so far

Gambling is probably a TOS violation (as would turning this discussion political), however I would bet you $10 that if his company ever found out he'd be fired on the spot.

Any cable guy that I got wind of with a gun would be explaining it to a police officer as he watched a different tech go into my house.

Ridiculous.

if he has a CCW permit he has broken no laws in most jurisdictions. Why would you call the police?

[Major Lord]

"NRA-CCW nuts": Interesting term. Personally, I think the NRA is a little too liberal for me, focusing less on Constitutional principals and too much on sporting uses. Nonetheless, the NRA is the largest lobbying organization in America because more Americans joined it than any other group. Having taken an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United Sates of America, I don't see anything wrong with an organization that exists solely to defend Constitutionally enumerated rights. Would you refer to the NAACP as those "black rights, anti-slavery nuts?" Fortunately, bigotry born of ignorance is often curable.

Not everyone,as John K.  has indirectly pointed out, is morally, mentally, emotionally and temperamentally suited to carrying a weapon. Give a weapon to a sheep and he won't be turned to a sheepdog, he will just be a better armed sheep. I defend the right of those of you who choose to go about defended by others or to die passively in protest.

I don't disparage those in the EMS business that cannot go armed, but to suggest that you go places that armed Americans ("NRA-CCW nuts" ) fear to tread is just laughable. If you go into a situation that is inherently dangerous in EMS without establishing personal protective measures and procedures, you may not be professional enough to survive the EMS business. Consider becoming a wedding planner or some field where your attitude won't get you and your partner killed.

That having been said, CAP is an organization that has little to do with guns, and is in fact, frightened by them. If the mission can't be carried out without a firearm, we are the worst possible people to task!  You have a few choices; Live with the regulations as written, try to change them,( I would rate that about as high as the survival of an ice cube in hades) Or ignore the regulations and hope you never have to shoot anyone while on CAP's time (Because then you would be in real trouble!) Better to bleed-out hanging on the barbed wire fence of some dopers pot field , or let some drug crazed liberal kill a couple of your cadets while you try and talk them down, then violate a CAP rule. The CAPR is just way too sacred to violate.

Major Lord

[Eclipse]

if he has a CCW permit he has broken no laws in most jurisdictions. Why would you call the police?

Not in my state, for starters. 

Just because he is standing in a jurisdiction with CCW doesn't mean he has a CCW, nor does it give him the right to bring a firearm
in my home, and I guarantee his company doesn't allow it.

The PD can verify he is legal to carry it, and then he can explain to his superiors why he is carrying a firearm.   Assuming they are OK with that, more power to him, just not in my house.

[JohnKachenmeister]

The only way anyone will ever know I am carrying a gun is to become an immediate threat to my life, or the life of some innocent person.  He will learn I am armed when the bullet penetrates his chest.  Until then, I keep my weapons completely concealed from view.  I do not threaten, display, brag about, or mention my firearm under normal conditions.

[Eclipse]

^ Which makes you a common sense, commendable gun owner, however you are also in the minority, and would be especially if CAP ever allowed any sort of carry.  Rare is the civilian with a CCW that doesn't want everyone to know.

With that said, assuming it was an option, I don't want you on my team if you have a weapon, legal or not.

[cap235629]

^ Which makes you a common sense, commendable gun owner, however you are also in the minority, and would be especially if CAP ever allowed any sort of carry.  Rare is the civilian with a CCW that doesn't want everyone to know.

With that said, assuming it was an option, I don't want you on my team if you have a weapon, legal or not.

Actually the folks who brag about having a CCW are a very small minority. I would be willing to bet it is like 1 in 20 or more. So for every one you know there at least 20 others that you will never know about.