Encampment Availability

[Major Carrales]

Don't you think I've tried?  Don't you think others have expressed the same?  We run into the same arguments some of you have made on this thread.  Unless there is a change in policy that would allow for smaller intense encampments...it is fruitless.

There's no policy on the minimum size of an encampment.  Unless by "smaller intense" you mean shorter in which case I'd have to vehemently disagree.  In the eight or so encampments I've been apart of, the training schedule is already pretty intense and a lot is crammed into the length of a regular encampment.  It's a constant struggle for the training staff to shuffle time, ensure requirements are all met, resolve unexpected but inevitable scheduling problems, and get everybody out the door with encampment credit.   It's already an "intense" training regimen at its full length.   I personally don't think you could maintain a quality product by shortening encampment "contact hours" by any significant length.
Edited to add: I just realized this was a thread derail in the Hock Shop thread.  Stand by for topic split...

No, length of the encampment is fine.  I woudl say that a week is not enough time, however reality dictates that adult staff, and cadet participation, could not swing more than a week due to school (lots of schools going to year round) and work matters.

My beef is the logistical nightmare of getting cadets to way distant encampments and the encampment steadily going beyond the threshold of personal finance.

[Ned]

Joe,

I don't think anyone would disagree that - all things being equal - we would rather that encampment be less expensive than more, and that transportation to encampment should never be a barrier to attendance.

Some wings offer need-based scholarships (like CAWG).  Some wings run shoe-string encampments on absolute bare-bones budgets (and are generously subsidized by seniors).

But we already compare favorably with other youth groups in terms of overall cost.  I haven't run my annual "encampment is cheap compared to Girls Scout camps" thread, but I'm sure you remember them.

We can do better, of course, and I am genuinely open to suggestions about how we can reduce costs and barriers to what I consider one of our best programs -encampment.

I know you are an encampment supporter, and neither of us wants to significantly change the leadership experience of encampment.  And while there is no set minimum size, we would probably also agree that there is such a thing as a "too small" encampment because that significantly changes our "encampment experience."

So, suggestions on how to make our current encampments more accessible?

(Please, be realistic in terms of resources.  "Just have 4 encampments per wing," for example, is not a helpful suggestion.)

[Major Carrales]

Joe,

I don't think anyone would disagree that - all things being equal - we would rather that encampment be less expensive than more, and that transportation to encampment should never be a barrier to attendance.

Some wings offer need-based scholarships (like CAWG).  Some wings run shoe-string encampments on absolute bare-bones budgets (and are generously subsidized by seniors).

But we already compare favorably with other youth groups in terms of overall cost.  I haven't run my annual "encampment is cheap compared to Girls Scout camps" thread, but I'm sure you remember them.

We can do better, of course, and I am genuinely open to suggestions about how we can reduce costs and barriers to what I consider one of our best programs -encampment.

I know you are an encampment supporter, and neither of us wants to significantly change the leadership experience of encampment.  And while there is no set minimum size, we would probably also agree that there is such a thing as a "too small" encampment because that significantly changes our "encampment experience."

So, suggestions on how to make our current encampments more accessible?

(Please, be realistic in terms of resources.  "Just have 4 encampments per wing," for example, is not a helpful suggestion.)

Texas Wing has, normally, two encampments a year.  When they are held in Austin, everyone drives the same distance...which is the minimal.  What happens is that the facility has either cancelled out or they have had to go to a relatively expensive place.  The Cost for the encampment three years ago was $75 dollars, now it is $200.  If this trend continues it will surpass $300 based on what I know to be happening with said facilities.

$200 is outrageous for some people to have to dish out and produces the "C/CMSgt for life" effect for some. Oh, I can have cadets going from business to businesses "begging" for it and label these solicitiations as "sponsorships..." but that tends to degrade.

I am told that the Texas Wing Encampments are meant to be self-sufficient getting no funding from Wing, Region or National.  Realistically, can a grant be written to off set costs?

As for distance, the only answer for large Wings is to have Group Level Encampments.  Ideally, every cadet has to go (if we assume that every cadet has it a a goal to make at least Mitchell); thus, every group with a sizable cadet population will eventually need an encampment.  Considering cadets have to drive over 500 miles in my Wing under the stauts quo...missing your Group Encampment would mean diving to a neighboring Group.

In an area of the United States where most children never venture more than 200 miles from home due to circumstance...mandating they attend an encampment that they cannot afford, reach or have in their locality strikes me as being "precarious."

[Eclipse]

^

[helper]

In SC our encampments cost approximately $100. Last year was $90.

We have also done weekend cadet training activities that cost $35.

One change we made was to prepare our own meals ( and they have been very good ).

I don't know the breakout but I imagine that food might represent a significant percentage of the cost.

[Slim]

MIWG has held it's encampment in the same place, Alpena CRTC, for the better part of 30 years.  In my time, there were only three exceptions, in the years right after the first Gulf war, we were unable to get in there.

If you look at the state of Michigan, most of the population (and thus the CAP units) are located in the southern third of the state.  But our encampment site is close to the very top of the lower peninsula; this translates to a four hour drive from Metro Detroit, five hours for points further south, six hours from Grand Rapids, and seven to eight hours from Battle Creek/Kalamazoo, and the two squadrons in the upper peninsula.  I live about an hour north of Detroit, and it's 212 miles from my driveway to the main gate at Alpena. 

We try to have as many of our corporate vehicles up there as we can, usually leaving enough downstate to cover missions (same with aircraft).  Since those 12 pax vans are coming north, fill them with cadets who have transportation issues.  Out of 12 available seats, you should be able to get 5-6 cadets in there, plus their gear.  May not be comfortable, but it's a free ride.

Nobody's denying that encampment costs are only going to go one way, up.  There's just no way around it.  Our encampment was $230 last year (I'll also wait for Ned's "This is what encampment costs vs a scout day camp" thread ), this year, it might go as high as $250 (more on the costs of an encampment later).  So, if you have members with financial difficulties, you (as a unit commander) need to get creative.  My unit tries to offer a scholarship if needed, we have the funds for that, if your unit doesn't, let me clue you into an incredibly easy fundraiser-Wreaths Across America.  My unit raises upwards of $1000 a year just selling wreaths.

Our encampment also offers need-based scholarships.  Unfortunately, we're self-sufficient, we can't offer unlimited scholarships.  We include a set amount of fees (usually for 10) in the budget for scholarships.  But, we also try to stretch those funds as far as we can by offering partial scholarships.  We also involve the cadet's unit, if they can include some funds to put towards that cadet.  Whatever encampment and the unit don't cover, the family has to cover. 

Another item regarding scholarships; we limit them to first-timers only.  One year, we awarded more scholarships to cadet staff and CLS students than first-timers.  Our thought is that a first time encampment is required at some point, serving on staff isn't, and there are other opportunities to meet the CLS/COS requirement for the Eaker award.  We also have some members who will also donate a scholarship anonymously, thus increasing the number of lives we can touch.

Another source we give to parents and cadet staff is your local service organizations.  Some of them have had great success in getting grants and donations from the VFW, American Legion, DAV, Marine Corps League, etc.  You'd be surprised what a well written letter and a presentation might get you.  We've had a few cadets get funding from the same source for multiple years.

I'm sure that any current or former encampment commander will agree with me when I say that the three biggest items in the encampment budget are your bed, your food, and the people who cook it.  Last year, the GLR-N encampment services bill from the base was in excess of $42,000 dollars.  That includes billeting (at $11 per person, per night), cost of food, and cost of the kitchen contractors.  We're not allowed to use our own cooks up there, the host base will only sign the dining facility over to a military Services or Force Support Squadron cooks, or you have to use their contractors.  If we could get military cooks on man-days, which is next to impossible, we could save about $16,000, and lower the costs. 

Do I like it?  No, $230/$250 is a lot of money, even for me.  I wish encampment still cost the same $60 it did in 1984 when I went to my first one.  I also wish that gas was still $.89 a gallon like it was when I was 16.  Times change, things cost more; it is what it is.

[Spike]

I believe Encampment is the most important activity in CAP for a Cadet.  The Squadron pays the entire cost of any Cadet going to Encampment.  Last year we has 12 Cadets go.  That is a piece of my operational budget.  When the Wing decides that location based on "awesomeness" is more important than costs associated with attendance I get upset.  Why pay more to rent billets when you have an facility that will offer free billets?  Why pay more for catered food, when the Army National Guard has offered to not only cook for you, but supply half the chow?

I think the USAF needs more involvement in carrying out an Encampment.  They are the ones who should be setting them up for us and providing "helpers".  Remember pre-1985 anyone?  Did it seem like the AF had more involvement in the Cadet Program then, or am I just going insane here................

[JayT]

I think the USAF needs more involvement in carrying out an Encampment.  They are the ones who should be setting them up for us and providing "helpers".  Remember pre-1985 anyone?  Did it seem like the AF had more involvement in the Cadet Program then, or am I just going insane here................

Where are the helpers gonna come from? Over stressed and over deployed Airmen and NCO's? A smaller number of bases and faculities in general? It be great if Air Force types could help with encampments, but its grossly un realisitic this day and age.

[Ned]

I think the USAF needs more involvement in carrying out an Encampment.  They are the ones who should be setting them up for us and providing "helpers".  Remember pre-1985 anyone?  Did it seem like the AF had more involvement in the Cadet Program then, or am I just going insane here................

Sure, I remember.  Individual bases were actually tasked by Big Blue to support encampments.  That meant the CAP base liaison officer actually had a budget and some accountability if things didn't go right.

I remember when Vandenberg AFB had to cancel on short notice, and the AF paid for charter buses to pick up and move the entire encampment to Nellis.

But times have changed.  The AF spun us off as a corporation a while ago.  And even if they hadn't, there's a war on.  (Or so they tell me.)

So waiting for the AF to step up and commit substantial funds and resources is in the "if pigs had wings" category.  I'm proud of our current encampment program, in part because wings do so much with so little and still deliver an excellent program.

[ZigZag911]

Here's a way USAF could help (or get DOD to do so): get military facilities to stop charging our members for use of quarters for encampments.

Paying for food is one thing, but paying to stay on an AF or other military base (which,after all, is a heck of a recruiting tool for the military) is unreasonable.

[Ned]

Here's a way USAF could help (or get DOD to do so): get military facilities to stop charging our members for use of quarters for encampments.

But of course they charge everybody to stay in quarters, even themselves.

It seems a little unlikely that they would let me stay in the BOQ for free when they would charge an AF officer $48/night.

The money has to come from somewhere.

[davidsinn]

Why does encampment need to be such a production? Why can't we get a bunch of GP large and toss them up in a state park? Why do we need barracks and mess halls and all that other crap?

[Ned]

Why does encampment need to be such a production? Why can't we get a bunch of GP large and toss them up in a state park? Why do we need barracks and mess halls and all that other crap?

I've played with this on and off for several years.  (Especially in years when it was hard to find a conventional facilty to host us.)

And it was significant logistical investment.  You've been around the block a few times and know that putting up and taking down a GP large (or even a medium) is a significant event requiring a dozen strong bodies and a good NCO.  Trying to come up with a dozen or so tents was challenging, and latrine facilities for a couple hundred folks in the field is not as easy as it sounds.  And you still need access to classroom and training sites, not to mention transportation to get to and from the field in timely manner.

Just trying to line up a couple hundred cots and footlockers, getting them to the field site, cleaning them and returning them was a frightening thought.  Gensets, lighting, a water buffalo, field showers, and yes, some sort of field mess.  (You really can't do MREs for a solid week.)

But yeah, if you could find a hundred elves to draw and  set up the infrastructure, and then clean up after you are done, I could imagine a fairly high-speed encampment in a field environment.  Tent inspections could be just as challenging as a barracks inspection.  The espirit could be awesome.

I even found a few facilities that had tent cities semi-permanently installed in remote areas (Camp Pendelton, for instance), but the availability of the tent cities was just as problematic as the hard sites.  IOW, they could cancel us for a higher-priority unit at the last moment just like the barracks.

I was eventually defeated by the logistics, and I used to be an Army battalion S4 who has supervised my fair share of field environments.

But I still think it could be done somehow.

[Eclipse]

The thing to bear in mind is that only a small percentage of our membership, both senior and cadets, have any interest in camping
or "roughing it", - we have adults who can't be put out to sleep in open bay barracks at NESA and Spring every year and have to make a big production out of going to the BoQ or a hotel, let alone living in the field.

There's nothing that says you can't do an encampment as an encampment, but as Ned says, the logistics of hots and cots for 100+ people are more challenging than if you can roll-up make your bunk and eat in a dining hall.  It would probably cost as much if not more to do it that way as well, as the places you can go camping for free with a hundred people are becoming fewer and fewer each year.

One of the points of an encampment is that it is a large-scale, out-of-home activity on purpose.  Making it "too local" would negate that
and rob cadets of the lessons of interacting with people they don't know.

And just like anything else, there is a baseline of staff required to do these things whether its 50 basics or 150, and we've found that you need at least 40-50 staffers (cadets and seniors) to be able to do things right and not kill everyone in the process.  Shrink below that
and you are probably reaching pretty hard to offer the correct experience, your span-of-control is stretched too thin, or you have too many staff positions and are bumping into each other looking for a way to have everyone participate meaningfully.

And with all that said, the biggest single issue is that most units and may cadets see encampments as a 1-time ticket punch root-canal they never has to do again - this year we have at least three Chiefs in the basic ranks - with that attitude, any wing with more than one encampment will be struggling to get the numbers each year to justify their existence.

What we need to do is require more encampments along the cadets' career - I say one the first calendar year and one per milestone, with at least 3 to Spaatz - the first year or two will be rough, but then there will be legit need for additional activities, and many more opportunities for cadets to serve in leadership positions.

[a2capt]

Why does encampment need to be such a production? .... Why do we need barracks and mess halls and all that other crap?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EzpMVqtRKo


If you had to do this much in a state park, or practically from scratch..


They say it takes a year to plan encampment here..

[Eclipse]

Why does encampment need to be such a production? .... Why do we need barracks and mess halls and all that other crap?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EzpMVqtRKo


If you had to do this much in a state park, or practically from scratch..


They say it takes a year to plan encampment here..

Video says it was removed for content violations, however the note about planning an encampment is spot-on.  We have a 6-month+ planning cycle for specifics to each event, but after 17 years much of it is boilerplate.  I'd say at least a year to ramp-up a new one.

[a2capt]

Funny, it still shows it to me.. the video is uploaded a few times on there, too. It's just royally crummy looking, thought I'd try it again. Must be some new sniffing they have on it.

It's the 1999 CAWG encampment video that has made the rounds in the past.

My rather quick note should have included, they say it takes a year to do it here.. if you added that getting the facilities meant some national park and 400 something "tents" ... and the infrastructure to feed that many people three times a day..

You had better be well into planning 2012 by now.

[tdepp]

Why does encampment need to be such a production? .... Why do we need barracks and mess halls and all that other crap?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EzpMVqtRKo


If you had to do this much in a state park, or practically from scratch..


They say it takes a year to plan encampment here..

Video says it was removed for content violations, however the note about planning an encampment is spot-on.  We have a 6-month+ planning cycle for specifics to each event, but after 17 years much of it is boilerplate.  I'd say at least a year to ramp-up a new one.

Any event that involves children or teens needs extensive planning for safety, content, and logistical reasons.  Events just do not "happen."  They take lots of people working behind the scenes to make it look easy when folks "just show up."  Anyone who thinks sending 50 kids into the wilderness or even a state park near an urban area for a week with no planning is asking for chaos at best and probably disaster or worse. 

As one of my buddies used to say, those who fail to plan plan to fail.  Or maybe it was Coach John Wooden who said that.  Anyway, most of us don't plan enough or soon enough.  And my thanks to those of you who plan and work at encampments to give Cadets a great and safe experience.

[jimmydeanno]

But I still think it could be done somehow.

You know...

It may be a nightmare for US to set it up, but there are some bases that have them already set up.  Like Ft. Pickett, VA has a FOB set up for training purposes.  They have the tents, chow hall, water buffalos, showers, latrines, berms, watchtowers, barracks (with bunks inside), etc already set up.

I wonder what the possibilities of using one for 10 days would be...

Also, setting up the GP tents doesn't have to be that hard.  One of the encampments that NIN ran, he had each flight set up theirs as a team building project 

[davidsinn]

I'm not talking about not planning. I talking about thinking outside the box.

Let's look at 52-16

CHAPTER 5 - ENCAMPMENTS
5-1. Introduction.
a. Goals of Encampments. Encampments are designed to provide CAP members the opportunity to:
(1) Apply knowledge gained in the cadet and senior programs to practical situations.
(2) Develop a greater understanding of CAP and Air Force missions and capabilities.
(3) Develop their leadership potential.
(4) Enhance their interpersonal skills.
(5) Develop time-management skills.
(6) Develop a spirit of teamwork.
(7) Inspire a sense of discipline.
( Learn how to overcome challenges and succeed.
(9) Enhance their local unit's Cadet Program.
(10) Aid in retention and motivation.
(11) Receive an introduction to the military.

And the requirements:

Figure 5-1. Encampments: Minimum Course Content & Curriculum Overview.
The encampment curriculum may be delivered via any format – tours, briefings, guest speakers, informal lectures, job shadowing, duty performance, simulations, games, etc. – making use of the particular strengths and resources of the host installation and local aerospace industry. Interactive, experiential methods of education and training are preferred to static, lectured-based instruction.
The encampment curriculum is integrated with the Air Force's force development program. Under each training block listed below, the corresponding universal aerospace leader competency is identified for informational purposes.
1. AIR FORCE FUNDAMENTALS – 10 Hours
1a. Structure & Mission of the United States Air Force: Cadets will be introduced to the six core competencies of the United State Air Force: air and space superiority, global attack, rapid global mobility, precision engagement, information superiority, and agile combat support. They should become acquainted with the missions of nearby Air Force units and how the total force is organized, to include CAP's relationship to the Air Force as its Auxiliary.
Universal Aerospace Leader Competencies:
Aerospace Operations: Air Force Core Competencies
1b. Aerospace Power: Cadets explore the unique characteristics of aerospace power - speed, precision, range, lethality, and freedom of maneuver - through the lens of local aerospace organizations, particularly Air Force flying units. Additionally, cadets will learn how aerospace power contributes to national security.
Universal Aerospace Leader Competencies:
Aerospace Perspective: Aerospace Fundamentals
Aerospace Strategy: National Military Strategy; Efficacy and Use of Aerospace Power
1c. Aerospace Heritage: Cadets will become acquainted with the historical artifacts, events, or individuals who shaped the aerospace environment and affected America's achievements in air and space.
Universal Aerospace Leader Competencies:
Aerospace Perspective: Air Force Heritage and Culture
2. CIVIL AIR PATROL FUNDAMENTALS – 10 Hours
2a. Emergency Services: Cadets will receive an introduction to CAP's emergency services mission, which may include actual emergency services training. Opportunities for cadet participation in emergency services should be emphasized.
Universal Aerospace Leader Competencies:
Not applicable
2b. Aerospace Education: Learning activities will be conducted to help cadets better understand the lessons found in the cadet aerospace textbooks. Full use should be made of the experts and facilities available at the host installation and in the local community.
Universal Aerospace Leader Competencies:
Aerospace Technology: Basic / Specialized Knowledge; Aerospace Environment
2c. Cadet Program: Experienced CAP leaders will provide an overview of opportunities available through continued participation in the Cadet Program. The overview will include information about scholarships, national and local cadet special activities, drill teams, color guards, and the Cadet Program's usefulness as a gateway to an aerospace career. The life skills and intangible benefits afforded by the Cadet Program will be emphasized. Practical advice on how to advance and make the most of the cadet experience should also be included. Cadets will also be made aware of the dangers of drug abuse, consistent with Drug Demand Reduction (DDR) program guidelines.
Universal Aerospace Leader Competencies:
Not applicable
Continued on next page
CAPR 52-16 1 OCTOBER 2006 45
Figure 5-1. Encampments: Required Minimum Course Content (Continued)
3. LEADERSHIP & THE CADET ETHIC – 16 HOURS
3a. Moral Leadership: The encampment will immerse youth in the cadet experience, accenting the traits that distinguish cadets from their non-cadet peers. Cadets will learn to develop discipline, teamwork, and accept personal responsibility. Throughout the encampment, the Air Force Core Values will be related to the various activities and used to develop the moral character of the cadets. Moral leadership forums with the chaplain or MLO will be conducted.
Universal Aerospace Leader Competencies:
Aerospace Character: Integrity / Honesty; Selflessness; Respectfulness; Decisiveness; Responsible and Self Disciplined; Loyalty; Compassion; Cooperativeness; Resilience
3b. Physical Fitness: Cadets will participate in fitness activities such as team sports, calisthenics, and exercise games that will motivate them to develop a lifelong habit of regular exercise. Sportsmanship will be encouraged, as well as cadets' efforts to achieve their personal best. Cadets will be instructed how to safely participate in fitness activities. Additionally, the importance of physical fitness will be related to Air Force missions, civilian aerospace careers, and a cadet's total well-being.
Universal Aerospace Leader Competencies:
Aerospace Leadership: Health and Wellness
3c. Drill & Ceremonies: Drill and ceremonies will be used to build self-discipline, confidence, and teamwork. Cadets will practice military customs and courtesies; they will learn to value politeness and respect as positive character traits that are cornerstones of civil society. Cadets proficient in basic drill should receive instruction on how to lead an element or flight in drill.
Universal Aerospace Leader Competencies:
Aerospace Perspective: Air Force Heritage and Culture
Aerospace Leadership: Teambuilding
3d. Creative Thinking: Cadets will learn how to think creatively and resolve problems in various educational settings. Cadets will be given opportunities to complete team leadership problems, participate in a leadership reaction course or obstacle course if available, or role play as if faced with an aerospace, emergency services, leadership, or ethical problem. Further, cadets serving on the encampment staff should participate in special workshops or receive mentoring from seasoned leaders who can help them improve their problem-solving capabilities.
Universal Aerospace Leader Competencies:
Aerospace Leadership: Promote Continuous Development of Airmen and Organization; Communications; Teambuilding; Visionary Outlook
4. AEROSPACE CAREER EXPLORATION – 4 HOURS
4a. Career Opportunities: By personally interacting with Air Force members and civilian aerospace leaders, cadets will receive an overview of various aerospace career opportunities. Careers outside the cockpit must be included, such as engineering, aircraft maintenance, air traffic control, meteorology, avionics, computer science, etc.
Universal Aerospace Leader Competencies:
Aerospace Technology: Aerospace Environment
Air Force Organization: Air Force as Total Force
4b. Career Requirements & Counseling: Cadets will be introduced to the aptitudes and educational requirements necessary to enter the careers showcased at the encampment. Representatives of the various career fields should explain typical career paths and opportunities cadets will have to enter that profession. The immediate educational commitments and life choices cadets must make in order to fulfill their career goals will be emphasized.
Universal Aerospace Leader Competencies:
Aerospace Technology: Aerospace Environment
Air Force Organization: Air Force as Total Force
Minimum Total Hours in Encampment Curriculum: 40

I'm not seeing anything in there that requires special facilities. Nothing says you can't use the same space you sleep in to host a class.

What I'm picturing in my mind is a group of tents set up in a state park with some porta potties off a little ways. You have speakers come in for the classes. The wing would own the tents, lockers and cots so it can host encampments anywhere they can get open ground. I would see it as 2 weekends like GL Spring encampment as you wouldn't have enough or adequate shower facilities for everyone.

Our costs are in things we have to beg for. Why can't we be a little more self sufficient? For the cost of one airplane you can buy a lot of cots and tents and spread them around.