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CAP Talk  |  Recent Posts
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 91 
 on: May 21, 2018, 03:21:26 PM 
Started by cpyahoo - Last post by Spaceman3750
To refine Eclipse’s point, the best time to have an MOU is when a customer needs it internally guarantee a funding stream when he wants to call CAP. Sometimes it’s easier to get the accounts payable office to pay a bill when there’s an existing piece of paper, rather than the EM manager explaining how he spent $3k on pictures from someone nobody has ever heard of before.

Other than that, probably not a lot of reasons to go through the work.


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 92 
 on: May 21, 2018, 02:47:25 PM 
Started by Eclipse - Last post by lordmonar
We got that.

A service dress for "office" and ceremony wear,  A field uniform and a flight uniform.

Seeing as you only need to buy the basic uniform your complaint about the multiform is a red herring. 



 93 
 on: May 21, 2018, 01:54:52 PM 
Started by Eclipse - Last post by Eclipse
(And Bob, if you honestly don't think military officers work uncountable hours "off the clock" and away from their families, vacations, and billable hours, that suggests that you may not appreciate the responsibilities and realities of military service.)

That's very nice, everybody works for free sometimes.  CAP people do it >all the time<, though I don't see how the
comparison is apt or relevent.

As much or more?  Very nice.

Fair enough, NHQ doesn't have the funding to provide uniforms to seniors (or even most cadets for that matter), so
alleviate the issues in the other direction by reducing the variety of the multiforms to those that fulfill a mission mandate instead of affectation.

 94 
 on: May 21, 2018, 01:48:54 PM 
Started by Eclipse - Last post by Ned
Because there are volunteers giving their time and treasure when most other people are "off"?

Because when they show up to a mission, military base for encampment, or similar situation
almost everyone else in the room is getting paid, and in many cases a uniform allowance and a pension?

Because they give up their vacations, time with their families, and often billable hours in their "real" jobs to serve their country?

Indeed.  Kinda like Scout leaders, reserve cops, volunteer firefighters, USCGA folks, and countless others who generously and courageously give of their time and effort to serve their communities.  And all of whom accepted these jobs with the full knowledge and expectation of the conditions of the position.  And thank God for them.

I'm sure they would all like free uniforms as well.  And undoubtedly deserve them as much or more than volunteer CAP officers.

 

(And Bob, if you honestly don't think military officers work uncountable hours "off the clock" and away from their families, vacations, and billable hours, that suggests that you may not appreciate the responsibilities and realities of military service.)

 95 
 on: May 21, 2018, 01:38:28 PM 
Started by Eclipse - Last post by Schrödinger's hat
First, I've said it before, but CAP needs an MOU with USAF regarding uniform issues. Instead of reinventing the wheel every time big blue changes their threads, we transition with them (+ a year or two added on for phasing out the older uniform). Many people say "It can't be done because...(blah blah blah)" but yes, yes it can. But that would cut way down on red tape, bureaucracy, and uncertainty...you know, the things CAP are best known for.

Second, (and I know this will never happen...but) uniform costs should be covered for all members in good standing. The curry award for cadets is a very good start, but SM's should have their costs reimbursed or have uniforms directly issued. If we really provide such an amazing service, benefit, and cost-savings to the federal government...why don't they invest more in us? (Rhetorical question)

Just my two cents.

As someone who wears both hats, I can tell you the USCG normally supports its members far better than CAP - but not in this case.

A full set of USCG uniforms (not counting the whites or mess dress, mind you) costs $740.  And thats according to the AUX national HR. The few "corporate" uniforms are almost never seen, and obsolete uniforms disappear quickly despite having an "as long as they are serviceable" rule.  They don't show up in thrift stores, surplus or even on Ebay.

Compare this to CAP - where the minimum basic corporate uniform can be had for  about $40.

 96 
 on: May 21, 2018, 01:36:57 PM 
Started by NIN - Last post by NIN
Sure. That much not needed.  We could have a series of videos and brochures produced at a national quality for less than what a new C-172 cost. It would be money well spent.

OK, I submit to you that yes, pretty good stuff could be created for that much (or even probably less).

But realize: you're talking about an amount of money that is nearly 15% of the current non-appropriated funds budget.  Thats a pretty hefty ask.

Where, pray tell, does that money come from? Out of the money presently allocated from the non-appropriated funds, what might you suggest we NOT spend money on to then spend money on this?

 97 
 on: May 21, 2018, 01:03:59 PM 
Started by cpyahoo - Last post by Eclipse
Negotiation of such relationships, especially in the form of MOUs when an MOU is necessary, is solely within the authority of requires the approval of the wing commander and he/she may choose to delegate that authority. Those negotiating new or revised MOUs should utilize legal officer services to the greatest extent possible.

FTFY.

MOUs are not required for "relationships" with customer agencies, and in fact are usually
more trouble then they are worth.

Yes, when and if an MOU is signed the CMA has to sign it, but the relationship itself, if it's below
the state level, and especially at the county or lower, is the direct responsibility of the unit or Group ESO, not the Wing.

CAPR 20-1, page 29 (Emergency Services Officer):
"Develop agreements with agencies responsible for search, domestic emergencies, and civil defense."

That's not a subjective delegation, that's the job.

My wing has 102 counties (TXWG has 254), and while there is an MOU in place between it and the AFRCC
as required by law, there is no MOU with CAP (state's not interested in the conversation) yet we get more then a little ES work
based solely on local agreements that are fully within the regs (i.e. you need us, call the NOC, we'll be there).

No MOU, no letter, just a handshake.

Most CAP MOUs just recognize the existence of the two parties and "encourage cooperation", they are not
contracts, nor do they guarantee work, the relationship with the local managers and some assurance of
performance are what get CAP work.

 98 
 on: May 21, 2018, 12:54:13 PM 
Started by Eclipse - Last post by Eclipse
Why should CAP officers be different?

Because there are volunteers giving their time and treasure when most other people are "off"?

Because when they show up to a mission, military base for encampment, or similar situation
almost everyone else in the room is getting paid, and in many cases a uniform allowance and a pension?

Because they give up their vacations, time with their families, and often billable hours in their "real" jobs to serve their country?

 99 
 on: May 21, 2018, 12:15:07 PM 
Started by Eclipse - Last post by Ned

Second, (and I know this will never happen...but) uniform costs should be covered for all members in good standing.

Easily done if the membership wouldn't mind having their dues more than tripled.

Somehow I think there may be some resistance to that idea.

Neither is there any suggestion that the Appropriations Fairy seems likely to drop an extra $10 million or so to equip every senior with a AF-style or corporate uniform or two every 4-5 years.  And that's just the seniors.  And if I could talk Congress and our colleagues in the Air Force out of an extra $10,000,000 a year, I would probably want to spend that on things like training for seniors and cadets (imagine if CLC/RSC/ NSC were free, including transportation), more radios and corporate vehicles to help save lives and move members around, and maybe even a full time employee or two in each wing to help with the crushing administrative burden.  It's mostly just a resource priority allocation issue.

Seriously, I did a little over 20 years wearing Army uniforms.  And because I was an officer, my Uncle Sam expected me to buy almost all of them with my own money.  Why should CAP officers be different?

Ned Lee
Former Army Guy


 100 
 on: May 21, 2018, 11:49:56 AM 
Started by NIN - Last post by etodd


You do realize that the USAF's advertising budget request for FY 2019 is $93,447,000, right?  Something like 37x the entire National non-appropriated fund budget for CAP.

Production value costs money.

Sure. That much not needed.  We could have a series of videos and brochures produced at a national quality for less than what a new C-172 cost. It would be money well spent.

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