The NEC just adopted the a new command patch to replace the one we're all wearing on our flight suits.
Yep, you guessed it, the same one from the new ID card...
No more USAF on the patch.. Saw that one coming..
SeattleSarge
>:( I just ordered the old patch for my unit's aviators!!!!
Those of you from the Portal will remember my post about "a 10 year moratorium on Uniform Changes."
I swear, the amount of money we are made to waste on frivolous purchases makes me ILL and Angry!!!!
You all will be thrilled to note that more discussion was spent on which region commander will host the next cocktail party than on this insignia change.
I'm not kidding, I listened to both discussions...
-SeattleSarge
Quote from: SeattleSarge on November 03, 2006, 09:46:33 PM
You all will be thrilled to note that more discussion was spent on which region commander will host the next cocktail party than on this insignia change.
I'm not kidding, I listened to both discussions...
-SeattleSarge
Disheartening, really...eh. I am serious, if not for my unwillingness to enter this forum's UNIFORM SECTION, I have made it a policy to avoid the discussions there...lots of contention over little substance, I would suggest my "10 year moratorium plan."
Really, how much money are they gonna make us waste?
Eh...where did my puking smiley go.....
If it weren't for the tax deduction, I'd be making the complete transition to the golf shirt combination. *sigh*
Cocktail Party? After all the discussions just on this forum about funding issues?! ACK!
Quote from: SeattleSarge on November 03, 2006, 09:14:47 PM
The NEC just adopted the a new command patch to replace the one we're all wearing on our flight suits.
Yep, you guessed it, the same one from the new ID card...
No more USAF on the patch.. Saw that one coming..
SeattleSarge
It's a change to the USAF-style uniforms, thus the Air Force will have to approve that change before they can actually implement the change.
I agree about a 10-year moritorium, or at least a 5-year. Something has to stop these willy-nilly uniform changes. I really don't care that much about what patches I have on, where they're positioned, or what color they are. I just want to do my job and not have to keep shelling out dollars to change uniforms I've already put together and paid for.
Actually, I think this one might be more appropriate:
(http://www.memphisracingscene.com/vb/images/smilies/mrs_BangHead.gif)
did they formally justify WHY on the change? If the AF didn't want it then they have full control over not only the AF-style uniform, but use of the AF Aux name. They approved putting it on, so I'd think that means they think it's appropriate to have it there, which means I tend to think it's inappropriate to take it off. That & I don't see the point. If it says CAP on the scroll no one can read it doesn't make it look less like the AF or change anything from a legal standpoint. Anything about a phase in period, or is that TBA at this point?
We can't fix our Jeckle and Hyde problem with out dumping one or the other. Let's face it....we refer to ourselves as Civil Air Patrol, active duty Air Force personnel know us as Civil Air Patrol....lets go with Civil Air Patrol on our logos and keep the USAF Aux as a second line sub title.
Is there a wear-out date for the old one??
Quote from: lordmonar on November 04, 2006, 12:15:06 AM
We can't fix our Jeckle and Hyde problem with out dumping one or the other. Let's face it....we refer to ourselves as Civil Air Patrol, active duty Air Force personnel know us as Civil Air Patrol....lets go with Civil Air Patrol on our logos and keep the USAF Aux as a second line sub title.
I know where you're comin from. I would have been fine w/ it saying Civil Air Patrol in teh first place. I just don't like it when they do something that looks like playin nice with the AF & then take it away again. It's bad form & sends a bad signal to both sides. By the way, first person wanting to say the AF doesn't give a crap what patch we wear on our flight suits, yeah no crap that's not the point. It's the symbol of chaning it away from AF that seems to be glaring neon for members that the example they want us to follow is away from the AF. It just to me seems like they don't ever think anything thru, and I don't just mean on uniform items. For the love of God, someone please loan them a trained staff officer.
I knew this was coming....it is the writing on the wall........face it.....Tony Pineda has no use for the Air force or us being the AF Aux. The AF and being it's aux is just an impediment to his being the all important dictator of the CAP. He knows there are many things he can't do because of the AF.....so....distance yourself from them in everyway including pissing them off with uniform issues.
My AF Aux ccommand patch will only be removed from my flight suit by the use of a blowtorch, dynamite and and/or nuclear weapons.
Quote from: Smokey on November 04, 2006, 02:11:36 AM
I knew this was coming....it is the writing on the wall........face it.....Tony Pineda has no use for the Air force or us being the AF Aux. The AF and being it's aux is just an impediment to his being the all important dictator of the CAP. He knows there are many things he can't do because of the AF.....so....distance yourself from them in everyway including pissing them off with uniform issues.
My AF Aux ccommand patch will only be removed from my flight suit by the use of a blowtorch, dynamite and and/or nuclear weapons.
I'm sorry you feel that way....so let me ask you....when are you going to submit your own 2b and resign from CAP?
I mean how can you be an effective officer if you do not follow the lawful orders of your own chain of command? I don't know if you are an Officer or cadet, but you are setting a bad example for those below you, and are not going to be able to affect any positive change by just ignoring orders.
Quote from: Smokey on November 04, 2006, 02:11:36 AM
My AF Aux ccommand patch will only be removed from my flight suit by the use of a blowtorch, dynamite and and/or nuclear weapons.
It's not like the command patch on the flight suit has been around that long. Up until a few years ago it was the CAP Seal. There is no real history in this, unless you've only been a member for just a few years. The command patch doesn't make you a better (or lesser for that matter) CAP Officer.
Quote from: Eclipse on November 03, 2006, 10:17:49 PM
Actually, I think this one might be more appropriate:
(http://www.memphisracingscene.com/vb/images/smilies/mrs_BangHead.gif)
Very appropriate!!!
Quote from: ZigZag911 on November 04, 2006, 04:10:33 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on November 03, 2006, 10:17:49 PM
Actually, I think this one might be more appropriate:
(http://www.memphisracingscene.com/vb/images/smilies/mrs_BangHead.gif)
Very appropriate!!!
Yeah, I'm not saying it's not appropriate, not even saying its not more appropriate than AF Aux on there. It's teh symbolism of the change that's problematic & speaks volumes. Again, you can discount the symbolism, but if it has nothing to do with symbolism why bother changing the wording you can't read from four feet on the bottom of a patch. The truth is neither the command patch or the paint jobs should have ever said AF Aux on them in the first place & we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's when you giveth & then taketh away that you get problems & the symbolism becomes more important. Just going from the round seal to the command patch they just approved would have satisfied the closer to teh AF crowd like myself.
Quote from: Smokey on November 04, 2006, 02:11:36 AMMy AF Aux ccommand patch will only be removed from my flight suit by the use of a blowtorch, dynamite and and/or nuclear weapons.
Or when they pry it from my cold, dead hands... ;D
The change of the major command patch, the removal of USAF Aux from the tail of aircraft are the latest changes moving CAP away from USAF. And the changes started Prior to MGen Pineda assuming command of CAP. Look back when the CAP seal was removed from the aircraft and replaced by the CAP emblem. And the removal of the CAP emblem from member owned aircraft. How many years ago was that? That would have been the first step in marking CAP as a non-USAF aircraft thus allowing the plane o be used for non-USAF missions.
Quote from: lordmonar on November 04, 2006, 02:44:26 AM
Quote from: Smokey on November 04, 2006, 02:11:36 AM
I knew this was coming....it is the writing on the wall........face it.....Tony Pineda has no use for the Air force or us being the AF Aux. The AF and being it's aux is just an impediment to his being the all important dictator of the CAP. He knows there are many things he can't do because of the AF.....so....distance yourself from them in everyway including pissing them off with uniform issues.
My AF Aux ccommand patch will only be removed from my flight suit by the use of a blowtorch, dynamite and and/or nuclear weapons.
I'm sorry you feel that way....so let me ask you....when are you going to submit your own 2b and resign from CAP?
I mean how can you be an effective officer if you do not follow the lawful orders of your own chain of command? I don't know if you are an Officer or cadet, but you are setting a bad example for those below you, and are not going to be able to affect any positive change by just ignoring orders.
Yes, we should all learn to just follow orders! You know, follow examples like Billy Mitchell, er wait, never mind...
Quote from: CaptLord on November 04, 2006, 03:15:26 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on November 04, 2006, 02:44:26 AM
Quote from: Smokey on November 04, 2006, 02:11:36 AM
I knew this was coming....it is the writing on the wall........face it.....Tony Pineda has no use for the Air force or us being the AF Aux. The AF and being it's aux is just an impediment to his being the all important dictator of the CAP. He knows there are many things he can't do because of the AF.....so....distance yourself from them in everyway including pissing them off with uniform issues.
My AF Aux ccommand patch will only be removed from my flight suit by the use of a blowtorch, dynamite and and/or nuclear weapons.
I'm sorry you feel that way....so let me ask you....when are you going to submit your own 2b and resign from CAP?
I mean how can you be an effective officer if you do not follow the lawful orders of your own chain of command? I don't know if you are an Officer or cadet, but you are setting a bad example for those below you, and are not going to be able to affect any positive change by just ignoring orders.
Yes, we should all learn to just follow orders! You know, follow examples like Billy Mitchell, er wait, never mind...
Billy got everything he deserved. I am not a fan of Col Mitchell, never was, great air power advocate, terrible officer.
I've been in CAP since just as we transitioned away from the berry boards. After 9-11 the AF brought us closer to them to help accomplish the mission of protecting America. We were given the command patch with AF Aux on it, they promoted the Natl Commander from Brig Gen to Maj Gen and Vice Commander from Col to Brig Gen to recognize the importance of our association with the Air Force. They set us up under 1 AF to better utilize us, they assigned a new position (I think held by former Natl Commander Brig Gen Anderson [an AF Col]) as XOH/AF AUX. We were to be part of the big picture.
Enter Tony Pineda....he removed US Air Force Auxiliary from his letterhead, he removed USAF AUX from the planes, removed the corporate seal from the planes, brought in a psuedo AF uniform, and now is removing AF Aux from the command patch. Does this sound like we have a better relationship with our parent organization? A relationship we have had since WWII.
My bet is the next step will be to outlaw the AF uniforms....no more blues, corporate only, only blue flight suits - no green ones, blue utlity uniforms and dumping the BDU. I see it as a power grab- the AF interferes too much in CAP in Pineda's opinion. The more we distance ourselves from the AF the less control they have. Example....since the AF supposedly cannot control the corporate uniform...Pineda could put 4 stars on the epaulet as CEO of the CAP coporation....what could the AF say as long as when he wears the AF uniform he only wears two stars. He could sign CAP corporate paperwork, that is absent US Air Force Auxiliary on it, as Gen Pineda instead of Maj Gen Pineda.
In the long run I think it will just piss off the AF more and who knows what that will bring.
Quote from: lordmonar on November 04, 2006, 05:10:30 PM
Billy got everything he deserved. I am not a fan of Col Mitchell, never was, great air power advocate, terrible officer.
See now, I think he was a great officer. He took it too far of course & got what he deserved for that, but actually that was the right thing to do also, even if it cost him his career. He's not the only one either. There's been plenty of cases from the officers that aggitated over our need to re-learn dogfighting skills befire & during Vietnam, to a current crop of Army officers now that aren't in love with transformation & think its application is counter-productive in the current operating environment. Helping your command reach a higher standard when they are fixated on something that isn't working is part of the job. Of course you should try to be more delicate than Brig Gen Mitchell, but don't follow orders blindly either.
By the way, if you find who defaced his memorial plaque at the club on Ft Sam Houston, do knock them the hell out for me.
I missed the video feed...was there any purpose for the change mentioned? ???
I assume that this applies also to the use of the "logo" [is that the right word?] in print/video etc.? such as on the new ID card?
Quote from: CAP428 on November 05, 2006, 06:06:58 AM
I assume that this applies also to the use of the "logo" [is that the right word?] in print/video etc.? such as on the new ID card?
If you're refering to this:
(http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/7/77/110px-CAP_MAJCOM_shield.jpg)
its what is know as a Majcom
Yes, that's what I'm referring to. So, it applies to that in print/video, etc. other media as well right,not just flight suits?
It was changed in print/media/etc prior to the national board meeting a couple months back. Which along with the change to the plaine paint job & the ID let us al know this was coming, but hoping not & wondering why.
Can the NEC change the regulation, or does it require action by the National Board?
Quote from: BillB on November 05, 2006, 01:33:05 PM
Can the NEC change the regulation, or does it require action by the National Board?
As Pylon mentioned earlier, since it is worn on an Air Force style uniform doesnt the AF have to approve it?
Quote from: Becks on November 05, 2006, 06:09:19 PM
Quote from: BillB on November 05, 2006, 01:33:05 PM
Can the NEC change the regulation, or does it require action by the National Board?
As Pylon mentioned earlier, since it is worn on an Air Force style uniform doesn't the AF have to approve it?
Yes the NEC can change it. The question you should ask is why were the graphics changed on the national board slides & the paint changed, yet NB wasn't allowed to vote on this issue. Mind you now the NB disapproved Pineda staying in office longer & elected a Vice Cdr that wasn't his first choice in a tight vote. That's versus a NEC where I think Pineda has replaced 7 of the 8 members, is that right? If I were a national board member, that kind of thing would piss me off.
Yes it requires AF approval. However, AF cannot justify disapproving this even if they wanted to. You could see them saying no if you were going the other direction, but there's no good reason either way on this, which makes it a CAP decision & will be rubber stamped.
OK, so they've changed the Command Patch to the one on the ID. Thats sucks. We'll see if this flies with the AF now. Anything else? I heard they were putting the "US" cutouts back on the lapels of the TPU service coat, and CAP cutouts on the epaulets with the metal rank, much like the black windbreaker. Is this true?
What else did they talk about at the NEC? I missed the feed, and can't find a recording of it anywhere.
Quote from: NAYBOR on November 06, 2006, 03:03:34 AM
Anything else? I heard they were putting the "US" cutouts back on the lapels of the TPU service coat, and CAP cutouts on the epaulets with the metal rank, much like the black windbreaker. Is this true?
It broke the law before according to AF, I don't see anything really wrong with that rumor, but I don't see aF going for it after that head to go thru the process of changing it in the first place. I'd kind of like to see it though, cause that how a lot of people would like the setup on the AF-style service coat to be down the road.
QuoteWhat else did they talk about at the NEC? I missed the feed, and can't find a recording of it anywhere.
Anything?
Quote from: Smokey on November 04, 2006, 05:41:44 PM
In the long run I think it will just piss off the AF more...
Yeah and we'll lose our funding as well.
CAP....Come And Pay !!! ::)
Quote from: PDCT042 on November 06, 2006, 03:03:09 PM
Quote from: Smokey on November 04, 2006, 05:41:44 PM
In the long run I think it will just piss off the AF more...
Yeah and we'll lose our funding as well.
I'm really more concerned with damaging our relationship with the Air Force than I am with losing our funding. There are all sorts of fundraising opportunities out there if we were to need to go that route, but relationships are much harder to rebuild.
I have news for you, those go hand in hand. "Piss me off and I don't give you money anymore." The relationship is vital for so many reasons. Car washes and bake sales don't raise the kind of money we get from USAF.
Quote from: LtCol White on November 06, 2006, 04:19:25 PM
I have news for you, those go hand in hand. "Piss me off and I don't give you money anymore." The relationship is vital for so many reasons. Car washes and bake sales don't raise the kind of money we get from USAF.
Agreed -- I don't think bake sales will buy us new, shiny Gippsland and Cessna aircraft each year to continue to maintain and update our fleet.
I think the relationship with the Air Force needs to be maintained diplomatically and carefully. It's not one single issue that would break CAP if the Air Force were to distance themselves from us... it's a combination of everything we get from them... funding, close ties with the DoD and federal government, support for the CP, DDR, AFAMs, etc., funding, aircraft, personnel support and more.
It's not just what patches or style uniforms we get to wear that would change should we lose favor with the USAF. We should be appreciative of the support they already have shown for our organization and continue to foster friendship and goodwill... not burn bridges.
I never understand people that want to do anything but build closer to teh AF. I know there's other flying opportunities out there & temptation if you're weak. AF is the catalyst behind CP & AE. That's 2/3rds of our mission. Then they are responsible for 80-90% of our ES missions... that's 95% of everything we do for those w/o a calculator handy. Plus they pay for training & maint - maybe not enough for some people's tastes, but how greedy/selfish is that? Over here I got 95% of our funding & everything we do. Over there I got the temptation of just a little more, but to get it I have to piss off the folks providing the 95% & for whom we exist which eventually results in less help. Hmm, let me think about this. CAP w/o the AF is instantly dead. CAP with even a bit less of the AF is bankrupt & begging. Even if you hated the idea, I don't see any alternative to getting up close as possible w/ the AF & not cheating on them with other folks.
:off topic:
The MOU template that the AF has approved allows for other than AF mission usage of CAP assets. The only restriction is that those assets may be pulled off non-AF missions at any time to support AF missions. I think the AF understands they do not have enough missions to fully utilize CAP's assets and is willing to let others use them, as long as it is understood the AF has first dibs on the assets. Which is entirely correct since they are funding the assets.
I look at it this way...
IF they had come out with the new patch initially, would we be crying? No, because it is still better then wearing the round seal.
The only reason we are crying and mourning the passing of the old MAJCOM insignia is that we don't like the direction we are moving in, and this is yet another milestone.
Smokey blames MG T.P. for the change of direction. He may well be right. I personally don't know if it is T.P., the Air Force, our goofy CAP lawyers, or the al Qaeda Network pushing the new agenda. I would sure like to know.
If the changes are for valid reasons, we can all be cool with them.
I just wish someone would take the time to share his vision with us, and let us know who's driving the train, and where the ultimate destination is. I can handle blowing the whistle better, then.
We do need more communication from TP about what his vision for CAP is. Right now the lack of any true direction has left us in the field wondering. I see the new website and the occasional "atta boy" message but nothing to inspire us, or at the least answer questions. Come out and tell me why the changes. Who's behind it. Chances are good TP will get less flack from the masses if he's a little more open with us.
I'm still keeping the old MAJCOM patch until the last moment of the wear-out date. Maybe I'll wear out before the patch does!
When I do have to change it, I'll sew it on my leather vest that I wear when I'm riding my Harley around.
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on November 08, 2006, 12:44:34 AM
I look at it this way...
IF they had come out with the new patch initially, would we be crying? No, because it is still better then wearing the round seal.
The only reason we are crying and mourning the passing of the old MAJCOM insignia is that we don't like the direction we are moving in, and this is yet another milestone.
Smokey blames MG T.P. for the change of direction. He may well be right. I personally don't know if it is T.P., the Air Force, our goofy CAP lawyers, or the al Qaeda Network pushing the new agenda. I would sure like to know.
If the changes are for valid reasons, we can all be cool with them.
I just wish someone would take the time to share his vision with us, and let us know who's driving the train, and where the ultimate destination is. I can handle blowing the whistle better, then.
That's exactly my position. If he'd clearly & definitively state a well thought out detailed vision including the trickle down effects, and show the light at the end of the tunnel, THEN we'd all know if this is something we want to be a part of or not. We'd either get on board enthusiastically & workt together as a team with a shared vision toward each of teh stepping stone goals, or we'd understand there may be aa better use for our talents out there & move on. Either way the losses would be replaced in under a year & we'd be united & moving forward together.
There might be a short stage there where people fight like hell to keep what they know or who disagree with the dircetion & try to change it, but that't something that you can overcome from a position of leadership.
Quote from: DNall on November 08, 2006, 05:51:25 PM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on November 08, 2006, 12:44:34 AM
I look at it this way...
IF they had come out with the new patch initially, would we be crying? No, because it is still better then wearing the round seal.
The only reason we are crying and mourning the passing of the old MAJCOM insignia is that we don't like the direction we are moving in, and this is yet another milestone.
Smokey blames MG T.P. for the change of direction. He may well be right. I personally don't know if it is T.P., the Air Force, our goofy CAP lawyers, or the al Qaeda Network pushing the new agenda. I would sure like to know.
If the changes are for valid reasons, we can all be cool with them.
I just wish someone would take the time to share his vision with us, and let us know who's driving the train, and where the ultimate destination is. I can handle blowing the whistle better, then.
That's exactly my position. If he'd clearly & definitively state a well thought out detailed vision including the trickle down effects, and show the light at the end of the tunnel, THEN we'd all know if this is something we want to be a part of or not. We'd either get on board enthusiastically & workt together as a team with a shared vision toward each of teh stepping stone goals, or we'd understand there may be aa better use for our talents out there & move on. Either way the losses would be replaced in under a year & we'd be united & moving forward together.
There might be a short stage there where people fight like hell to keep what they know or who disagree with the dircetion & try to change it, but that't something that you can overcome from a position of leadership.
I heard a term used the other day. "Sheeple". People who allow others to lead them around like sheep. The way we are kept in the dark on a lot of changes (as minor as they may seem in the grand scheme of things) and we are not suspose to question or ask for (or expect) explainations or communication is a problem that originates in the leadership of OUR organization.
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on November 08, 2006, 12:44:34 AM
I look at it this way...
IF they had come out with the new patch initially, would we be crying? No, because it is still better then wearing the round seal.
The only reason we are crying and mourning the passing of the old MAJCOM insignia is that we don't like the direction we are moving in, and this is yet another milestone.
And I look at it this way...
They did change it! It's not the world of "what if's". It's only been about 2 - 3 years and it was easily the best uniform decision in the past several years. But, now they want to change it again. There is no reason for the change. It's not wanted by the members and it's not needed for any other reason (the Posse Comitatus argument doesn't fly).
The patch should remain as is - "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Quote from: A.Member on November 10, 2006, 04:45:02 AM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on November 08, 2006, 12:44:34 AM
I look at it this way...
IF they had come out with the new patch initially, would we be crying? No, because it is still better then wearing the round seal.
The only reason we are crying and mourning the passing of the old MAJCOM insignia is that we don't like the direction we are moving in, and this is yet another milestone.
And I look at it this way...
They did change it! It's not the world of "what if's". It's only been about 2 - 3 years and it was easily the best uniform decision in the past several years. But, now they want to change it again. There is no reason for the change. It's not wanted by the members and it's not needed for any other reason (the Posse Comitatus argument doesn't fly).
The patch should remain as is - "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
It was broke.....we are not the USAF AUX....we are Civil Air Patrol the Official Auxiliary to the USAF.
Now it's fixed.
Quote from: lordmonar on November 10, 2006, 05:52:30 AM
It was broke.....we are not the USAF AUX....we are Civil Air Patrol the Official Auxiliary to the USAF.
Now it's fixed.
Acutally, we are both - depending on the situation. The current command patch addresses that by listing both.
Quote from: A.Member on November 10, 2006, 03:01:43 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on November 10, 2006, 05:52:30 AM
It was broke.....we are not the USAF AUX....we are Civil Air Patrol the Official Auxiliary to the USAF.
Now it's fixed.
Acutally, we are both - depending on the situation. The current command patch addresses that by listing both.
I've been thinking about this...and I'm wondering if the change to the patch was to make it "more appropriate" for wear on the Corporate flightsuit. It seems to me that the tag "U.S. Air Force Auxilliary" is used most often with the Air Force style uniforms (i.e. it's on the gray nametag for the blues) and it's taken off the Corporate uniforms (those nametags just say "Civil Air Patrol").
There should only be one MAJCOM patch, so in the eyes of the "Powers That Be", the version which could be worn on both types of uniforms is the one that wins. Just a thought.
A valid point. As an aside, I could have swore that I read somewhere that the AF was behind the change in the MAJCOM emblem, but I've tried to find where I read that and can't. SO, I was probably day dreaming. :)
Quote from: Psicorp on November 10, 2006, 04:44:36 PM
I've been thinking about this...and I'm wondering if the change to the patch was to make it "more appropriate" for wear on the Corporate flightsuit. It seems to me that the tag "U.S. Air Force Auxilliary" is used most often with the Air Force style uniforms (i.e. it's on the gray nametag for the blues) and it's taken off the Corporate uniforms (those nametags just say "Civil Air Patrol").
There should only be one MAJCOM patch, so in the eyes of the "Powers That Be", the version which could be worn on both types of uniforms is the one that wins. Just a thought.
Probably the best argument I've heard so far...
Although, how many corporate flight suits have you ever seen? I've never seen one...although I'm told they exist. What's more, it's the corporate uniform, so, in theory, it wouldn't necessarily have to have the same patch. Precedent: Headgear rules for CAP BDU are different from USAF-style BDUs. Not that I'm necessarily advocating yet another uniform combo.
Quote from: A.Member on November 10, 2006, 11:16:09 PM
Quote from: Psicorp on November 10, 2006, 04:44:36 PM
I've been thinking about this...and I'm wondering if the change to the patch was to make it "more appropriate" for wear on the Corporate flightsuit. It seems to me that the tag "U.S. Air Force Auxilliary" is used most often with the Air Force style uniforms (i.e. it's on the gray nametag for the blues) and it's taken off the Corporate uniforms (those nametags just say "Civil Air Patrol").
There should only be one MAJCOM patch, so in the eyes of the "Powers That Be", the version which could be worn on both types of uniforms is the one that wins. Just a thought.
Probably the best argument I've heard so far...
Although, how many corporate flight suits have you ever seen? I've never seen one...although I'm told they exist. What's more, it's the corporate uniform, so, in theory, it wouldn't necessarily have to have the same patch. Precedent: Headgear rules for CAP BDU are different from USAF-style BDUs. Not that I'm necessarily advocating yet another uniform combo.
I actually bought a corporate flight suit...at least I think it's the Corporate flightsuit (there is no other designation for exactly what it is). I found a new CWU 73/P on Ebay for $40. If I lived around a military base and interacted with the military, then I'd go with the green zoom suit. I'd never considering ordering the Corporate flightsuit from Vanguard...$268!! Yikes! Not when the Air Force flight suit can be had on Ebay for $50 or less.
Quote from: Psicorp on November 11, 2006, 03:44:53 AM
I actually bought a corporate flight suit...at least I think it's the Corporate flightsuit (there is no other designation for exactly what it is). I found a new CWU 73/P on Ebay for $40. If I lived around a military base and interacted with the military, then I'd go with the green zoom suit. I'd never considering ordering the Corporate flightsuit from Vanguard...$268!! Yikes! Not when the Air Force flight suit can be had on Ebay for $50 or less.
Gees you actually got two fight suits? Well I do too actually, but they're both of the green & free variety. I can't imagine paying for a blue one unless I had no choice. I never understand why members feel a need to own every possible uniform combination & then complain about costs - not saying that's what you're doing, just an aside.
Quote from: mawr on November 04, 2006, 03:51:53 AM
Quote from: Smokey on November 04, 2006, 02:11:36 AM
My AF Aux ccommand patch will only be removed from my flight suit by the use of a blowtorch, dynamite and and/or nuclear weapons.
It's not like the command patch on the flight suit has been around that long. Up until a few years ago it was the CAP Seal. There is no real history in this, unless you've only been a member for just a few years. The command patch doesn't make you a better (or lesser for that matter) CAP Officer.
Yaeh, but I just bought the darn thing and it came last week and is currently in the alteration shop getting put on. Now you're telling me I have to buy another one. That sucks
Quote from: flyguy06 on November 16, 2006, 02:16:50 AM
Yaeh, but I just bought the darn thing and it came last week and is currently in the alteration shop getting put on. Now you're telling me I have to buy another one. That sucks
Hook 'n Loop on a zoombag serves an altogether different purpose in CAP :)
Excet that my hook and loop (a.k.a Velcro) matches the shape of the patch it's holding on. :o
Well. I'm not changing mine. This volunteer organization is starting to get expensive with all the uniform changes.
I wondered why the MAJCOM patch already had velcro sewed on it straight from the bookstore. Now I am thinking that all CAP patches should come that way...much easier to change to the next rev.
The trick is to sew on enough extra velcro backing on the flight suit in order to accomodate all the crazy shaped patches you might need to put on it.
Quote from: RiverAux on November 17, 2006, 04:48:17 AM
The trick is to sew on enough extra velcro backing on the flight suit in order to accomodate all the crazy shaped patches you might need to put on it.
(http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/corbis/DGT388/BCO20028.jpg)
That's a keyboard!
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Quote from: RiverAux on November 17, 2006, 04:48:17 AM
The trick is to sew on enough extra velcro backing on the flight suit in order to accomodate all the crazy shaped patches you might need to put on it.
Like this?
(http://www.goanet.com/gravity/Velcro_Wall.jpeg)
You were reading my mind...
Exactly. I suppose Tedda was implying that anyone with a bunch of unused velcro space on his flight suit is a loser..... I don't know, those new Army uniforms they're wearing have about half a square foot of velcro space on each arm that seems to be left exposed by most patches.....
Yup, and the Army folks I've chatted with in the last month or so aren't wild about it, mostly laundering issues.
Quote from: RiverAux on November 18, 2006, 01:23:58 AM
I suppose Tedda was implying that anyone with a bunch of unused velcro space on his flight suit is a loser.....
I wouldn't be so quick to put those words in his mouth. Unless you're
intentionally trying to vilify him.
Well, when all you do is post a picture of someone making the Loser sign you're just going to have to face the fact that your message might not exactly be clear to everyone. A picture isn't always worth a 1000 words.
Trying to interpret what he meant isn't villifying anyone.
What might he have meant?
1. He was calling me a loser for having unused velcro backing on my flight suit in order to accomodate different patches.
2. He was calling me a loser for taking this whole thread half-way seriously.
3. He was calling all of us losers.
4. Heck, he might have meant that he was a loser for participating on this board for all I know.
Quote from: RiverAux on November 18, 2006, 04:11:16 AM
Well, when all you do is post a picture of someone making the Loser sign you're just going to have to face the fact that your message might not exactly be clear to everyone. A picture isn't always worth a 1000 words.
Trying to interpret what he meant isn't villifying anyone.
What might he have meant?
1. He was calling me a loser for having unused velcro backing on my flight suit in order to accomodate different patches.
2. He was calling me a loser for taking this whole thread half-way seriously.
3. He was calling all of us losers.
4. Heck, he might have meant that he was a loser for participating on this board for all I know.
I replied to your quote.
Quote from: RiverAux on November 17, 2006, 04:48:17 AM
The trick is to sew on enough extra velcro backing on the flight suit in order to accomodate all the crazy shaped patches you might need to put on it.
Yeah, that one.
If you actually do what you said in your quote then yes, it was certainly meant for you. My flightsuit has the same shaped patches on it since 2000 when I started wearing one. It might be just me, but I don't strive for the TOPGUN aviator look. What's
your need for extra velcro? How many "crazy shaped" patches do you have to
accomodate on your zoombag?
Did you read it in context?
We were talking about having to change CAP patches on a regular basis. For example, going from the round CAP seal to the command patch which required sewing on extra soft velcro to make it work.
The next flight suit I get will have extra space to accomodate any such changes in the future. Frankly, I agree it will look stupid but I just don't have the time or inclination to do more sewing (or pay to have it done) than I have to. So, if I've got plenty of room for weird patches (maybe we'll go to a triangle next time), I won't have to worry about it.
Quote from: RiverAux on November 18, 2006, 04:54:22 AM
Did you read it in context?
We were talking about having to change CAP patches on a regular basis. For example, going from the round CAP seal to the command patch which required sewing on extra soft velcro to make it work.
The next flight suit I get will have extra space to accomodate any such changes in the future. Frankly, I agree it will look stupid but I just don't have the time or inclination to do more sewing (or pay to have it done) than I have to. So, if I've got plenty of room for weird patches (maybe we'll go to a triangle next time), I won't have to worry about it.
I think the real trick is to get a custom-made flight suit entirely out of soft-pile velcro. ;)
Ooooh, that would feel so good! Of course I might get killed by the static electricity shocks....
Quote from: RiverAux on November 18, 2006, 04:57:25 AM
Ooooh, that would feel so good!
Well, as long as it's a custom job, might as well line the inside with something comfy like silk. You know, for maximum comfort.
Quote from: RiverAux on November 18, 2006, 04:57:25 AMOf course I might get killed by the static electricity shocks....
It would require a large patch on the arms indicating "WARNING: Do not fuel CAP van, aircraft, or POVs while wearing this uniform."
;D
Maybe you could install static wicks :)
Get sort of a cowboy leather-fringed shirt thing going....
Maybe something with gold fringe hanging off the shoulder boards. A TPFS.