I'm wondering when the practice started for cadets.
What was the reason/thought behind it? This was brought on by the topic on the Uniform simplification thread that went on for 57 pages for a lock.
I'm simply wondering since the difference between 2 and 4 months in grade isn't that much different compared to senior grades.
Ive always thought the same thing. It never made much sense to have to take the stuff off every few months. Especially when cadet enlisted wear metal.
Maybe by the time they earn them.. it would be about time they learn how to sew? ;-)
Possibly because it looks better, and they don't promote as often as Phase 1 and 2 cadets?
Quote from: a2capt on October 24, 2009, 02:47:36 AM
Maybe by the time they earn them.. it would be about time they learn how to sew? ;-)
Certainly plausible. I only learned to sew because of all the promotions!
When I was a C/2d Lt, the rank insignia on fatigues was metal and we, of course, wore "CAP" on the opposite collar. By the time I made C/1st Lt in 1969, we had cloth rank. It was white with a green background. I'm pretty sure that this stuff was in wide use by 1970. IIRC, we were still wearing metal on our fatigue caps - getting it sewn on those was difficult.
Why? Remember that cadet enlisteds/NCOs wore sew-on sleeve rank, as did all SMs. I guess it was, at that time, a natural.
Never wore the sew on until I became a senior(again) after a 2 year break(90-92). As a cadet, I always wore the metal. Heck, made it to c/LtCol without ever buying the shoulder boards. I did find my c/WO's gold pip a few years ago and it now resides in my collection. I also have a c/WO pip that is embroidered on tan cloth. Anybody got a clue on that one?
Quote from: olefido on October 25, 2009, 02:23:36 AM
Never wore the sew on until I became a senior(again) after a 2 year break(90-92). As a cadet, I always wore the metal. Heck, made it to c/LtCol without ever buying the shoulder boards. I did find my c/WO's gold pip a few years ago and it now resides in my collection. I also have a c/WO pip that is embroidered on tan cloth. Anybody got a clue on that one?
You sure that "tan" isn't faded Sage Green? Sage Green was the background color for the cloth insignia worn on the "Pickle Suits".
Definitely tan. Have looked at more faded sage green than I care to recall. The local surpluse store was my second home WIWAC.
The USAFA Prep school wears metal grade on the collar of their ABU's, using CAP Cadet Officer insignia to indicate Cadet Candidate Grades. Probably this was also the case back in the day, so the cloth would likely distinguish between CAP Cadet Officers and USAFA Cadet Candidates. Just a theory.
Quote from: wilhelm147 on October 26, 2009, 03:23:34 AM
The USAFA Prep school wears metal grade on the collar of their ABU's, using CAP Cadet Officer insignia to indicate Cadet Candidate Grades. Probably this was also the case back in the day, so the cloth would likely distinguish between CAP Cadet Officers and USAFA Cadet Candidates. Just a theory.
No.
Quote from: Gunner C on October 26, 2009, 01:47:43 PM
Quote from: wilhelm147 on October 26, 2009, 03:23:34 AM
The USAFA Prep school wears metal grade on the collar of their ABU's, using CAP Cadet Officer insignia to indicate Cadet Candidate Grades. Probably this was also the case back in the day, so the cloth would likely distinguish between CAP Cadet Officers and USAFA Cadet Candidates. Just a theory.
No.
+1
WIWAC in the 80's, you had the option of cloth or metal for cadet officers. Sometime in the late 80's - early 90's they mandated that cloth only was allowed. The reason they gave us was because of safety, but give us a good answer when we asked why the cadet NCOs didn't have sew on. So I am not sure if that was the reason or the one they came up with at the unit.
Quote from: Spike on October 26, 2009, 01:48:13 PMQuote from: Gunner C on October 26, 2009, 01:47:43 PMQuote from: wilhelm147 on October 26, 2009, 03:23:34 AMThe USAFA Prep school wears metal grade on the collar of their ABU's, using CAP Cadet Officer insignia to indicate Cadet Candidate Grades. Probably this was also the case back in the day, so the cloth would likely distinguish between CAP Cadet Officers and USAFA Cadet Candidates. Just a theory.
No.
+1
Hence just a theory.
Wher's Ace when you need him? :D :D
Quote from: olefido on October 25, 2009, 02:23:36 AM
Never wore the sew on until I became a senior(again) after a 2 year break(90-92). As a cadet, I always wore the metal. Heck, made it to c/LtCol without ever buying the shoulder boards. I did find my c/WO's gold pip a few years ago and it now resides in my collection. I also have a c/WO pip that is embroidered on tan cloth. Anybody got a clue on that one?
I made it to C/Capt w. out wearing the darn shoulder boards...gave in for a formal welcome reception for IACE cadets from Europe (can't remember if it was France or Belgium)...took them off right after that, I DESPISED the silly things!
Yea, those silly regs and their shoulder-boards. ::)
Remember that cadet enlisted insignia was sew-on until I think the 70's. Shoulder patches. So I think that you're thinking the wrong direction...Cadet Enlisted became pin-on. I just don't know which uniforms they were or if some were pin-on and some weren't. The older folks would have to tell us that. I've only been in 10 years.
I do know that C/Enlisted had sew on grade, but I'm just wondering why we have a split now/then (did C/Officers wear metal then?).
The idea came up from a thread where there was talk of cost simplification to the uniforms. Not that cloth is expensive, but wouldn't having metal grade be easier to change out? Especially in a time when I've seen C/Capt or even above wear the insignia wrong. Although that also could be a reason. With C/Enlisted it's just a matter of adjustment and the insignia will look right, with C/Officers...not so much.
Quote from: olefidoWher's Ace when you need him? :D :D
Heheheh
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/RANK-CDT/index.html
Prior to the creation of the cadet program, adult-sponsored youth members wore sleeve rank insignia starting in 1949.
Cadet officers started unofficially wearing cloth insignia from other sources like military schools in the mid-60s (I've seen photos), but officially picked it up in early 1968.
I knew you were out there somewhere. Do you have any idea about my C/WO pip on tan cloth?
Tan? Uh uh.
This is all I've seen:
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/RANK-CDT/C-WO.jpg)
Although there are rank insignia on light blue twill that were sewn to the USAF blue shirt, such as this...
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/H-C-S/cap2a.jpg
These are rare and not well documented. I've only seen them on a female uniform. So you might have something there.
One of these years when my butt catches up to the rest of me or vice versa, I'll try to get one of my more computer savvy friends to post a pic.