CAP Talk

Cadet Programs => Cadet Programs Management & Activities => Topic started by: Eclipse on December 06, 2017, 12:18:30 PM

Title: USAFA Cadets "active duty"?
Post by: Eclipse on December 06, 2017, 12:18:30 PM
Are USAFA Cadets considered "active duty"?   

This came up last night in regards to Academy Cadets who stay in CAP as CAP Cadets
to pursue Spaatz, etc.

Based on Panther's pst I'm guessing "no", but a former Academy cadet in my squadrn
thought she had been active while there.

I was under the impresion there was a CAP unit up there, and isn't there a special
award for CAP cadets who are attended USAFA each year?
Title: Re: USAFA Cadets "active duty"?
Post by: kwe1009 on December 06, 2017, 01:21:40 PM
37 USC 101(18) states, "The term 'active duty' means full-time duty in the active service of a uniformed service, and includes full-time training duty, annual training duty, full-time National Guard duty, and attendance, while in the active service, at a school designated as a service school by law or by the Secretary concerned."   

38 USC 101(b)(21) states, "The term 'active duty' means service as a cadet at the United States Military, Air Force, or Coast Guard Academy, or as a midshipman at the United States Naval Academy."   

38 USC 1965(1)(d) states, "The term 'active duty' means full-time duty as a cadet or midshipman at the United States Military Academy, United States Naval Academy, United States Air Force Academy, or the United States Coast Guard Academy."   


While my original thought was they are not AD, it appears that by US Law that they are AD,.
Title: Re: USAFA Cadets "active duty"?
Post by: MHC5096 on December 06, 2017, 01:23:09 PM
Ironically, service academy time does not count towards a military retirement (it can count for a civil service retirement).
Title: Re: USAFA Cadets "active duty"?
Post by: Eclipse on December 06, 2017, 01:35:40 PM
38 USC 101(b)(21) states, "The term 'active duty' means service as a cadet at the United States Military, Air Force, or Coast Guard Academy, or as a midshipman at the United States Naval Academy."   

38 USC 1965(1)(d) states, "The term 'active duty' means full-time duty as a cadet or midshipman at the United States Military Academy, United States Naval Academy, United States Air Force Academy, or the United States Coast Guard Academy."   

OK, I see - 39-2, Page 11 excludes academies explicitly.

"Upon Joining the Armed Forces. Cadets who join any branch of the active duty Armed
Forces (this does not include military service academies) "
Title: Re: USAFA Cadets "active duty"?
Post by: stillamarine on December 06, 2017, 01:40:08 PM
I was thinking AD as well because don't they get a stipend. I also thought I heard (and I can be completely wrong here) but if they fail out don't they have some obligated service as an EM?
Title: Re: USAFA Cadets "active duty"?
Post by: Offutteer on December 06, 2017, 05:49:44 PM
I was thinking AD as well because don't they get a stipend. I also thought I heard (and I can be completely wrong here) but if they fail out don't they have some obligated service as an EM?

I believe they can walk out the first year without a commitment, but I don't know if that also applies to their sophomore year. 
Title: Re: USAFA Cadets "active duty"?
Post by: SarDragon on December 06, 2017, 06:30:33 PM
I was thinking AD as well because don't they get a stipend. I also thought I heard (and I can be completely wrong here) but if they fail out don't they have some obligated service as an EM?

I believe they can walk out the first year without a commitment, but I don't know if that also applies to their sophomore year.

That is correct. I know someone who bailed at the end of their first year, and incurred no further obligation.
Title: Re: USAFA Cadets "active duty"?
Post by: Panther on December 06, 2017, 07:15:51 PM
We can leave without debt until signing commitment papers at the beginning of junior year. USAFA cadets aren't technically AD, but receive essentially full benefits that an AD member would have (and a salary 1/3 that of an O-1).
Title: Re: USAFA Cadets "active duty"?
Post by: CAPLTC on December 06, 2017, 07:58:46 PM
Counts for pay though, yeah?

Ironically, service academy time does not count towards a military retirement (it can count for a civil service retirement).
Title: Re: USAFA Cadets "active duty"?
Post by: SarDragon on December 06, 2017, 08:22:23 PM
Counts for pay though, yeah?

Ironically, service academy time does not count towards a military retirement (it can count for a civil service retirement).

I believe so. Delayed entry time prior to actual enlistment also counts for pay. My Pay Entry Base Date is 98 days before my Active Duty Service Date.
Title: Re: USAFA Cadets "active duty"?
Post by: BKhun on December 06, 2017, 08:43:09 PM
Academy time doesn't count for pay or retirement. AD Service Date is date of USAFA graduation for pay purposes. However, USAFA cadets are *technically* active duty (per USC above), which is a distinction between ROTC.
Title: Re: USAFA Cadets "active duty"?
Post by: abdsp51 on December 06, 2017, 09:05:21 PM
Counts for pay though, yeah?

Ironically, service academy time does not count towards a military retirement (it can count for a civil service retirement).

I believe so. Delayed entry time prior to actual enlistment also counts for pay. My Pay Entry Base Date is 98 days before my Active Duty Service Date.
 

That might have changed.  My TAFMS date is end of March and that is what is usrd to calculate my pay and service length.  And I joined DEP at the begining of the month.
Title: Re: USAFA Cadets "active duty"?
Post by: GaryVC on December 07, 2017, 05:02:45 PM

I believe so. Delayed entry time prior to actual enlistment also counts for pay. My Pay Entry Base Date is 98 days before my Active Duty Service Date.

This was true for me many many years ago, but I don't believe it is the case any longer.
Title: Re: USAFA Cadets "active duty"?
Post by: ol'fido on December 07, 2017, 05:57:48 PM
We had a cadet receive his Spaatz while attending the AFA. I believe that it does count at the end of career for retirement. IOW, you must have 20 years after commissioning to apply for retirement, however, the time at AFA or other service academies will count in calculating your pension. Academy plus 20 years commissioned service results in 24 years of Federal service or 60% pension.