Has anyone ever heard of this bunch?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I don't recognise that airplane, but it looks like it would be ideal for our scanners/observers.

http://www.ukcivilairpatrol.co.uk/

[THRAWN]

I don't recognise that airplane, but it looks like it would be ideal for our scanners/observers.

http://www.ukcivilairpatrol.co.uk/

There was some talk about them a few years ago. Seems like a decent group. The plane is a Aeroprakt A-22L Foxbat. In the interest of full disclosure, I had to look it up by registration number. Kind of reminds me of a C162.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

FOXBAT?!

[THRAWN]

FOXBAT?!

Jimniy Jillikers! If only!

[Luis R. Ramos]

The A22L Foxbat is classified by Wikipedia as an ultralight, and if I am not mistaken, CAP regs in the 60 series prohibit the use of ultralights in CAP. Am I not correct?

Please do not ask me to look them up, I just finished a day with a 3rd-grade class and cannot focus on minute details...

[Luis R. Ramos]

By the way, Wikipedia states it is known as the Foxbat in Australia and UK only, in the US its the Valor.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Ultralight?

I think of this when I think of "ultralight."

[THRAWN]

Looks like it's classed as a LSA in the US. Even so, it's a Yugo with a surfboard for a wing and a lawnmower engine.

[THRAWN]

The A22L Foxbat is classified by Wikipedia as an ultralight, and if I am not mistaken, CAP regs in the 60 series prohibit the use of ultralights in CAP. Am I not correct?

Please do not ask me to look them up, I just finished a day with a 3rd-grade class and cannot focus on minute details...

Yea, third grade was tough. I'm still all hosed up about my 8 times tables.... 

[Luis R. Ramos]

Actually I should have said teaching a 3rd-grade class!

[Brit_in_CAP]

Interesting.

They took over the role that would, at one time, have been undertaken by the RAF using their piston-engine training aircraft as part of MACC (Military Aid to the Civil Community).  Insufficient training aircraft these days!

[sardak]

In 2009, the then head of UK CAP, Mr. Tony Cowan MBE, received a Winston Churchill Memorial Trust Fellowship to come to the US to visit CAP units. His report is here: http://www.wcmt.org.uk/reports/667_1.pdf

Here's a brief article about UK CAP and US CAP: http://www.ukcivilairpatrol.co.uk/wsp_images/gabuyereurope.pdf

Mike

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

It does not seem like the UKCAP has any formal links with the RAF, unlike ours (however tenuous) with the USAF.

The Canadian CASARA seems like they are fairly well integrated with the RCAF.

http://www.casara.ca/

[lordmonar]

It does not seem like the UKCAP has any formal links with the RAF, unlike ours (however tenuous) with the USAF.

The Canadian CASARA seems like they are fairly well integrated with the RCAF.

http://www.casara.ca/

I know you just can't pass up a chance to jab at CAP.....but "however tenuous"......in what world is giving CAP multiple millions of dollars defined as "tenuous"?

I guess my relationship with my family is "tenuous" because I only give them a few 10s of thousands each year.   I'm sure my wife will be thrilled. 

[Panache]

I guess my relationship with my family is "tenuous" because I only give them a few 10s of thousands each year.   I'm sure my wife will be thrilled. 

I would love to have a "tenuous" relationship with you, Master Sergeant.

I'll e-mail you the PO Box # so you can send me my checks.

[Fubar]

I guess my relationship with my family is "tenuous" because I only give them a few 10s of thousands each year.   I'm sure my wife will be thrilled. 

Actually, it would be more like the government giving you millions of dollars but writing a law saying it was up to your wife to watch you to make sure you spent it appropriately (regardless if your wife wants the job).

[lordmonar]

I guess my relationship with my family is "tenuous" because I only give them a few 10s of thousands each year.   I'm sure my wife will be thrilled. 

Actually, it would be more like the government giving you millions of dollars but writing a law saying it was up to your wife to watch you to make sure you spent it appropriately (regardless if your wife wants the job).

That is not how it works......the USAF submits the budget.  Congress approves it.   In a few cases.....CAP has been able to get more from congress then the USAF asked for.....but that is not new....or unique to CAP.   Boeing asked for and got congress to force the USAF to buy more B-2 then the USAF asked for......does that make Boeing's relationship with the USAF tenuous?

No....sorry.....once again the "The USAF hates CAP" crowd has tried to spread their unfounded rumors as fact.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Master Sergeant, I do not know how you can derive "the USAF hates CAP" from my personal characterisation of "however tenuous."

I do not mince words, nor do I speak in riddles.  If I intended to say "the USAF hates CAP," that is EXACTLY what I would have said.

However, I challenge you to present tangible evidence that we have the same sort of interpersonal (quite apart from financial) that we had with the Air Force prior to about 1990.

[Brit_in_CAP]

It does not seem like the UKCAP has any formal links with the RAF, unlike ours (however tenuous) with the USAF.

The Canadian CASARA seems like they are fairly well integrated with the RCAF.

http://www.casara.ca/

My only comment here is that you are correct - the UKCAP does not have a formal link with the RAF.

The RAF operates - for a while longer - SAR helos on behalf of the Dept of Trade as well as to support the military mission but that will cease when the whole SAR role is placed with a private contractor in the next few years.  It'll be interesting to see how UKCAP fares at that point.  There might be an opportunity for them - or not.

[lordmonar]

Master Sergeant, I do not know how you can derive "the USAF hates CAP" from my personal characterization of "however tenuous."

I do not mince words, nor do I speak in riddles.  If I intended to say "the USAF hates CAP," that is EXACTLY what I would have said.

However, I challenge you to present tangible evidence that we have the same sort of interpersonal (quite apart from financial) that we had with the Air Force prior to about 1990.

I was not in CAP in the 1990s....but in the 80's let's see.........base support....check got it.   Interest from base personnel in what we do.....check got it.   Interest from USAF members to integrate CAP into their operations.......check got it.

I do not see.....I SAY AGAIN.....I do not see a tenuous "interpersonal" relationship.   As for discounting the financial......in today's air force....a fincial relationship is an INTERPERSONAL relationship......even between MAJCOMs, WINGS and Units......it is all about what you can do for me.....and how much is it going to cost.

The USAF itself has changed a great deal since the 1990s.....one major war followed by a major draw down followed by a major shift in operations........so our relationship may have changed.....but it is because the USAF changed its relationship with itself more then anything else.

So yes......we get less O-rides (on mil jets), and MilAir to NSCAs is not going to happen anytime soon (but back in '86 I don't think I knew anyone who actually got MilAir).  We still get access to base (just more hoops to jump through....but again it is not a CAP only thing).  We still get facilities on base.  We still get support from base for NCSAs and Conferences, and RCS, etc.   We still get DRMO access.   My base commander loves us.  He bends over backwards to do what he can for us.   So.....over all......relatively speaking......it is the same as back then.....just different.

[ZigZag911]

Folks, I've been a member since 1970 (WIWAC!).

During that time span, there was not "Golden Age" of CAP relationship with USAF.

Neither was there an intentional antipathy on part of the Air Force toward CAP.

Now and then someone in CAP, generally but not always high up the food chain, did something to displease the senior USAF leadership, which occasionally led to a negative reaction and consequences.

Throughout that time, Air Force personal as a whole knew as little about us as the general public.

As with everything else, most relationships tended to be local (wings/units with Air Force bases, Air National Guard units, CAP-RAP reservists) and the nature and quality of those relationships depended on the individuals leading on both sides.

I would suggest that this remains the case today.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The RAF operates - for a while longer - SAR helos on behalf of the Dept of Trade as well as to support the military mission but that will cease when the whole SAR role is placed with a private contractor in the next few years.  It'll be interesting to see how UKCAP fares at that point.  There might be an opportunity for them - or not.

So Flight Lieutenant William Wales, RAF, who flew Sea King SAR helos, would have had to cross-train to something else if he'd remained in the RAF?

[PHall]

The RAF operates - for a while longer - SAR helos on behalf of the Dept of Trade as well as to support the military mission but that will cease when the whole SAR role is placed with a private contractor in the next few years.  It'll be interesting to see how UKCAP fares at that point.  There might be an opportunity for them - or not.

So Flight Lieutenant William Wales, RAF, who flew Sea King SAR helos, would have had to cross-train to something else if he'd remained in the RAF?

If he had stayed in, yes, in a couple of years.

[MSG Mac]

The RAF operates - for a while longer - SAR helos on behalf of the Dept of Trade as well as to support the military mission but that will cease when the whole SAR role is placed with a private contractor in the next few years.  It'll be interesting to see how UKCAP fares at that point.  There might be an opportunity for them - or not.

So Flight Lieutenant William Wales, RAF, who flew Sea King SAR helos, would have had to cross-train to something else if he'd remained in the RAF?

Same as in any other military. Move up or move on.

[Brit_in_CAP]

If I may...yes, that would be correct in the same way that both his father and uncle had to when they moved on in the RN, and as Lt Harry Wales will also do shortly.

Prince Charles commanded HMS Bronington (mine counter-measures vessel) as a Lt and then did some aviation training whilst Prince Andrew flew as part of the Air Group in HMS Invincible during the Falkands War, then as the Flight Commander in a frigate and thence to the Ministry of Defense as a staff officer.  Likewise, Lt Harry Wales is headed to a desk job after flying Apaches.

In the case of Flt Lt Wales, a logical progression would have been to either cross-train on Support Helicopters (SH) or, again, take his first desk job and, in all probability, start flying again in the SH force a few years later.

Added Later: when 'the Royals' are 'active' in one of the Services they follow the normal up or out path and undertake staff training as well as operational training; Charles and William are different in being the heir apparent and heir presumptive to the Throne; their service is intended to familiarize them with all aspects of the UK military and they usually 'serve' in all 3 branches at some point.  William was insistent that he actually 'do' something since the UK was at war and his younger brother was serving first as a FAC and then as an Apache pilot.

[THRAWN]

If I may...yes, that would be correct in the same way that both his father and uncle had to when they moved on in the RN, and as Lt Harry Wales will also do shortly.

Prince Charles commanded HMS Bronington (mine counter-measures vessel) as a Lt and then did some aviation training whilst Prince Andrew flew as part of the Air Group in HMS Invincible during the Falkands War, then as the Flight Commander in a frigate and thence to the Ministry of Defense as a staff officer.  Likewise, Lt Harry Wales is headed to a desk job after flying Apaches.

In the case of Flt Lt Wales, a logical progression would have been to either cross-train on Support Helicopters (SH) or, again, take his first desk job and, in all probability, start flying again in the SH force a few years later.

Prince Harry is a captain, but otherwise, interesting info. Thanks for sharing!

[Brit_in_CAP]

If I may...yes, that would be correct in the same way that both his father and uncle had to when they moved on in the RN, and as Lt Harry Wales will also do shortly.

Prince Charles commanded HMS Bronington (mine counter-measures vessel) as a Lt and then did some aviation training whilst Prince Andrew flew as part of the Air Group in HMS Invincible during the Falkands War, then as the Flight Commander in a frigate and thence to the Ministry of Defense as a staff officer.  Likewise, Lt Harry Wales is headed to a desk job after flying Apaches.

In the case of Flt Lt Wales, a logical progression would have been to either cross-train on Support Helicopters (SH) or, again, take his first desk job and, in all probability, start flying again in the SH force a few years later.

Prince Harry is a captain, but otherwise, interesting info. Thanks for sharing!

You're welcome..

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Captain Wales AAC is going to the RN?

I had also heard unsubstantiated rumours he would be doing at least some service with one of the Commonwealth services.

Flt Lt Wales would also have soon been eligible to promote to Squadron Leader, though I understand that is one of the most competitive of all the ranks in the RAF to earn.

[Brit_in_CAP]

Captain Wales AAC is going to the RN?

I had also heard unsubstantiated rumours he would be doing at least some service with one of the Commonwealth services.

Flt Lt Wales would also have soon been eligible to promote to Squadron Leader, though I understand that is one of the most competitive of all the ranks in the RAF to earn.

I couldn't pass up commenting here!

Sqn Ldr is indeed one of the most competitive RAF ranks to earn.  It's the first point at which promotion is tied to something other than time in grade, and it requires multiple hoops to be jumped through.  The list has changed much since my time so I won't attempt to quote today's list.  In general terms it is the up or out point for most commissioned officers; it's hard to complete full career if you can't make at least the O-4 point (personal experience!).  Flt Lt Wales had sufficient time in grade (just) and would probably have gotten a condensed training if he'd decided to remain.

I have to say also that the herd gets thinned rapidly from O-4 onwards.  The RAF is now ~40,000 strong (regular) plus a share of the total 37,00 reserves (not sure of the split).  Given the intention to reduce the RAF by a further 7,000 personnel (taking total strength close to WW1 levels) a simply analysis shows that you need commensurately fewer commissioned officer and especially senior commissioned officers.  Anyone thinking of joining for a full career needs to consider that.  The chances are much higher that you'll remain as an O3 or O4, or be separated at your 16-year point, rather than ascend the pyramid.

Capt. Wales took up post as a Staff Officer role in HQ London District as SO3 (Defence Engagement) in 2014 , where he will help to co-ordinate significant projects and commemorative events involving the Army in London.   Serving in one of the Commonwealth services is entirely feasibly but I've seen nothing about cross-serving in the RN.  Probably not, unless he goes back to flying Apaches again as part of the embarked Air Group in one of the current assault ships or the new carriers (assuming those go as planned).  The concept - Apache on board ship - has been trialled very successfully.

Cross-serving is actually quite easy when Grandma is Commander in Chief not only of the UK armed forces but also of 'Her Other Realms and Dominions'!  For the rest of us, it meant mountains of paper and(generally) a polite denial!  I write this without any rancor, by the way.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Cross-serving is actually quite easy when Grandma is Commander in Chief not only of the UK armed forces but also of 'Her Other Realms and Dominions'!  For the rest of us, it meant mountains of paper and(generally) a polite denial!  I write this without any rancor, by the way.

If Captain Wales would choose to serve in one of "Her Other Realms and Dominions," not much would change for him uniform-wise...just slap a nationality flash on each shoulder in many cases.

[PHall]

According to what I heard on NPR today, Flt Lt Wales is considering flying helecopters for an Air Ambulance Company.
Just proves that saving lives is a hard habit to break! :clap:

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

According to what I heard on NPR today, Flt Lt Wales is considering flying helecopters for an Air Ambulance Company.
Just proves that saving lives is a hard habit to break! :clap:

No joke?  I had not heard that.

[PHall]

According to what I heard on NPR today, Flt Lt Wales is considering flying helecopters for an Air Ambulance Company.
Just proves that saving lives is a hard habit to break! :clap:

No joke?  I had not heard that.

Edit: Also found it on the Mail Online web page.

[Brit_in_CAP]

Cross-serving is actually quite easy when Grandma is Commander in Chief not only of the UK armed forces but also of 'Her Other Realms and Dominions'!  For the rest of us, it meant mountains of paper and(generally) a polite denial!  I write this without any rancor, by the way.

If Captain Wales would choose to serve in one of "Her Other Realms and Dominions," not much would change for him uniform-wise...just slap a nationality flash on each shoulder in many cases.

Yes, quite true!  The 'other realms and dominions' adopted the pattern of uniform from the 'Mother Country' to an amazing extent!  That is, part from (wait for it)...the cammo uniforms..!

I knew no CAPTALK thread could live for long without getting to a uniform piece eventually!

[Brit_in_CAP]

According to what I heard on NPR today, Flt Lt Wales is considering flying helecopters for an Air Ambulance Company.
Just proves that saving lives is a hard habit to break! :clap:

No joke?  I had not heard that.

Edit: Also found it on the Mail Online web page.

Likewise.  Getting some minor press coverage but we'll have to wait and see.

[PHall]

According to what I heard on NPR today, Flt Lt Wales is considering flying helecopters for an Air Ambulance Company.
Just proves that saving lives is a hard habit to break! :clap:

No joke?  I had not heard that.

Edit: Also found it on the Mail Online web page.

Likewise.  Getting some minor press coverage but we'll have to wait and see.

Well if you had the choice of either performing "Royal Duties" or helping save someone's life, which would you do?

[Eclipse]

Well if you had the choice of either performing "Royal Duties" or helping save someone's life, which would you do?

A true "Royal" simply issues a proclamation that the person is no longer in peril and moves on with dinner.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Indeed.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Yes, quite true!  The 'other realms and dominions' adopted the pattern of uniform from the 'Mother Country' to an amazing extent!  That is, part from (wait for it)...the cammo uniforms..!

New Zealand personnel are almost indistinguishable from the "Mother Country," except for the nationality flash, as are the RCN. 


AIRCDRE Kevin McEvoy, RNZAF

The Canadian Army has a different shade of green, and the RCAF uses gold sleeve rings and Army ranks.  The Australian Army uses their famed "slouch hat."

The RAAF uses the same cut as the RAF, but in a (very attractive) "midnight blue."


Air Marshal Geoff Brown, AO, RAAF

Well if you had the choice of either performing "Royal Duties" or helping save someone's life, which would you do?

Excellent point, and well-taken, but it seems like those who worry about those in the line of succession would view the same duty performed in a military or a private sector context somewhat differently...in the RAF F/L Wales had to do what he was ordered to do, but in the civilian world he does have a little more choice.

Anyway, if that's what he's doing, I hope he does well and saves lots of lives.

[Flying Pig]

According to what I heard on NPR today, Flt Lt Wales is considering flying helecopters for an Air Ambulance Company.
Just proves that saving lives is a hard habit to break! :clap:

No joke?  I had not heard that.

Edit: Also found it on the Mail Online web page.

Likewise.  Getting some minor press coverage but we'll have to wait and see.

Well if you had the choice of either performing "Royal Duties" or helping save someone's life, which would you do?

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/prince-william-take-job-air-ambulance-pilot-1449958

[Майор Хаткевич]

Good deeds and all.

[a2capt]

It's funny, all through this thread where it drifted to the air ambulance service, I was like "Who?" .. I guess I've tuned that whole thing out

[Майор Хаткевич]

Nice. Not too familiar with Wales usage myself.

[MSG Mac]

According to what I heard on NPR today, Flt Lt Wales is considering flying helecopters for an Air Ambulance Company.
Just proves that saving lives is a hard habit to break! :clap:

Now that he's become a Duke. he is referred to as Flt Lt Cambridge.

[Майор Хаткевич]

According to what I heard on NPR today, Flt Lt Wales is considering flying helecopters for an Air Ambulance Company.
Just proves that saving lives is a hard habit to break! :clap:

Now that he's become a Duke. he is referred to as Flt Lt Cambridge.

Why don't they use Windsor?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

According to what I heard on NPR today, Flt Lt Wales is considering flying helecopters for an Air Ambulance Company.
Just proves that saving lives is a hard habit to break! :clap:

Now that he's become a Duke. he is referred to as Flt Lt Cambridge.

Why don't they use Windsor?

I believe that the actual last name of the Royal Family is Windsor-Mountbatten, but that Prince Charles and his descendants use "Wales" because of his title as the Prince of Wales.

Hence, Flight Lieutenant and Captain Wales.

[Brit_in_CAP]

Yes, quite true!  The 'other realms and dominions' adopted the pattern of uniform from the 'Mother Country' to an amazing extent!  That is, part from (wait for it)...the cammo uniforms..!

New Zealand personnel are almost indistinguishable from the "Mother Country," except for the nationality flash, as are the RCN. 


The Canadian Army has a different shade of green, and the RCAF uses gold sleeve rings and Army ranks.  The Australian Army uses their famed "slouch hat."

The RAAF uses the same cut as the RAF, but in a (very attractive) "midnight blue."

Personally, I rather liked the NZ air force - both the people and the uniform - and tried to transfer.  Such things were, at the time, both reasonably common and quite permissible.  Sadly, my timing was poor and the NZ air force didn't want engineers!  I met several at the RAF College, and I found them to be a very professional organization.  Their summer uniform, intended for the NZ summer, always caused a few smiles: short sleeved shirt, knee-length shorts and long socks!  I never had the opportunity with work with the RAAF or the Canadian Forces, sadly.  The RAAF did impress me, I have to say, when they attempted to rescue the crew of a yacht on which my friend and former colleague was a crew member.  Sadly, that turned into a body recovery but the professionalism of the response was very impressive.

[Brit_in_CAP]

According to what I heard on NPR today, Flt Lt Wales is considering flying helecopters for an Air Ambulance Company.
Just proves that saving lives is a hard habit to break! :clap:

Now that he's become a Duke. he is referred to as Flt Lt Cambridge.

Why don't they use Windsor?

I believe that the actual last name of the Royal Family is Windsor-Mountbatten, but that Prince Charles and his descendants use "Wales" because of his title as the Prince of Wales.

Hence, Flight Lieutenant and Captain Wales.

If I may....the 'family name' is Windsor for all those who are in the direct line of succession.  The family name of Mountbatten-Windsor applies to the members of the Royal Family who are not entitled to use the title of Prince or Princess.

The name 'Windsor' was adopted in WW1 as the original family name was linked to the German monarchy!  Mountbatten-Windsor.  Edward VII and his son, George V, were members of the German ducal House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha by virtue of their descent from Albert, Prince Consort, husband of Queen Victoria. High anti-German sentiment amongst the people of the British Empire during World War I reached a peak in March 1917, when the Gotha G.IV, a heavy aircraft capable of crossing the English Channel, began bombing London directly and became a household name. In the same year, on 15 March, King George's first cousin, Nicholas II, the Emperor of Russia, abdicated, which raised the specter of the eventual abolition of all the monarchies in Europe. The King and his family were finally convinced to abandon all titles held under the German Crown and to change German titles and house names to anglicized versions. Hence, on 17 July 1917, a royal proclamation issued by George V declared that the 'family name' would be Windsor.  That was later confirmed by the current Queen when Lord Louis Mountbatten, whose nephew she had married, politicked to have the family name changed to that of the husband (Mountbatten). (Thanks, Wikipedia for some help here)

That action famously caused Prince Philip to comment (and I quote): "I am nothing but a bloody amoeba. I am the only man in the country not allowed to give his name to his own children."

The children of the Prince of Wales use 'Wales' simply as a derivative of their father's title, Prince of Wales.  As small children, when they occasionally travelled circumspectly, their airlines passages etc were booked under the name of Cambridge, as it happens.

[Eclipse]

http://capvolunteernow.com/todays-features/?uk_civil_air_patrol_chairman_hails_bond_with_us_cap_between_nations&show=news&newsID=18622



"Capt. Bill Henry (right) of the Mississippi Wing's Col. Berta A. Edge Composite Squadron is welcomed to the UK Civil Air Patrol by the organization's chairman, James A. "Tony" Cowan, at one of the UK's premier aviation events, AeroExpo at Sywell Aerodrome in Northamptonshire.


The approach of the 70th anniversary of the D-Day landings in Normandy on June 6, 1944, has prompted the chairman of Civil Air Patrol's U.K. counterpart to share his thoughts about the links between the two organizations and their nations.

"Many of us, particularly those who have served in the military, will recognise the 'special relationship' that binds our two great countries, the UK and the USA, particularly as we remember the liberation of Europe and the D-day landings that took place 70 years ago in Normandy, France," James A. "Tony" Cowan said in an email Monday to National Headquarters.

"This 'special relationship' also extends to the Civil Air Patrol in both countries," Cowan added.

He also took the opportunity to note that "one of the UK CAP's most recent recruits is Bill Henry, who is also a member of the U.S. CAP Mississippi Wing."

"Bill is resident in the UK this summer, and he will now pursue his CAP activities on this side of the 'pond,'" he said.

Henry, a CAP captain, serves as deputy commander for seniors for the Mississippi Wing's Col. Berta A. Edge Composite Squadron. His wing commander, Col. Mallory Woodcock, is a native of England who moved to the U.S. in 2000 to pursue an aviation career.

Cowan's organization, also known as Sky Watch Civil Air Patrol, was founded in 2000. It focuses on the use of small aircraft and microlight pilots to assist with air traffic control and emergency services, providing search and rescue and air-sea rescue resources when called on to do so."

[Brad]

What's really interesting is the can of worms of the actual RAF volunteer components:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Air_Force_Volunteer_Reserve

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Auxiliary_Air_Force

[Brit_in_CAP]

What's really interesting is the can of worms of the actual RAF volunteer components:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Air_Force_Volunteer_Reserve

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Auxiliary_Air_Force

..and that's an understatement!

In reality it is much simpler than is described in the ever helpful Wikipedia.  The RAuxAF forms the deployable portion of the 'weekend warrior' reservists.  The RAF Volunteer Reserve (Training Branch) or RAF(VRT) exists solely to provide commissioned officers for the Air Training Corps and RAF Elements of the Combined cadets Force (found in large, usually fee-paying) schools.  Unlike the CAP, VRT officers hold actual commissions and can be paid up to (I think) 14 days per year in their substantive tank, which is never higher than Flying Officer (1st Lt); VRT officers wearing rank above that hold acting rank.  The University Air Squadrons (UAS) are likewise purely for training, similar to the ROTC.  During the Cold War, the UAS were allocated as home defense forces and actively practiced that role.

The whole reserve structure was rebuilt post Persian Gulf war so that all the reserves were deployable - training portions excepted - and 'home defence units' (sic) were removed.  Further restructuring removed the RAFVR, RAuxAF and RAF Reserves as separate entities and consolidated them, albeit that some of the titles remain.

It really is simpler in reality than it appears!

The British Army and RN Reserves were likewise massively restructured, which led this year to the demise of the Territorial Army when it was combined into a single organization with the existing Army Reserves.  Some of the regimental titles remain, principally the Yeomanry units.

During my time at college, I had a 'war role' as part of (if I recall correctly) London UAS which would have seen us deployed to support the squadron's aircraft used as observation platforms performing post-attack reconnaissance and similar roles.  Having spent 5 years enlisted, this was not something that concerned me although it rather worried some of the 'young gentlemen' who aspired to fly when they realized that would, at best, be a sentry under the command of someone like me...

[Brit_in_CAP]

http://capvolunteernow.com/todays-features/?uk_civil_air_patrol_chairman_hails_bond_with_us_cap_between_nations&show=news&newsID=18622

The approach of the 70th anniversary of the D-Day landings in Normandy on June 6, 1944, has prompted the chairman of Civil Air Patrol's U.K. counterpart to share his thoughts about the links between the two organizations and their nations.

"Many of us, particularly those who have served in the military, will recognise the 'special relationship' that binds our two great countries, the UK and the USA, particularly as we remember the liberation of Europe and the D-day landings that took place 70 years ago in Normandy, France," James A. "Tony" Cowan said in an email Monday to National Headquarters.

"This 'special relationship' also extends to the Civil Air Patrol in both countries," Cowan added.

He also took the opportunity to note that "one of the UK CAP's most recent recruits is Bill Henry, who is also a member of the U.S. CAP Mississippi Wing."

"Bill is resident in the UK this summer, and he will now pursue his CAP activities on this side of the 'pond,'" he said.

Henry, a CAP captain, serves as deputy commander for seniors for the Mississippi Wing's Col. Berta A. Edge Composite Squadron. His wing commander, Col. Mallory Woodcock, is a native of England who moved to the U.S. in 2000 to pursue an aviation career.

Cowan's organization, also known as Sky Watch Civil Air Patrol, was founded in 2000. It focuses on the use of small aircraft and microlight pilots to assist with air traffic control and emergency services, providing search and rescue and air-sea rescue resources when called on to do so."

Interesting; thanks for sharing. 

I once asked, via CAPTALK, if anyone knew of more Brits in the CAP.  The replies offered a few names but the reality is that there are more than I thought.

Being able to be part of the CAP and to serve the young people in the cadet program was not something I ever anticipated when we moved to the United States and you have made me more than welcome since I joined in 2011. 

I've heard much in recent days about the special relationship but I've seen it at first hand, both in CAP and through the eyes of my Marine Corps son and Coastguard daughter.

Thank you for allowing me the privilege of serving with you.  I look forward to a long association!

[Garibaldi]

http://capvolunteernow.com/todays-features/?uk_civil_air_patrol_chairman_hails_bond_with_us_cap_between_nations&show=news&newsID=18622

The approach of the 70th anniversary of the D-Day landings in Normandy on June 6, 1944, has prompted the chairman of Civil Air Patrol's U.K. counterpart to share his thoughts about the links between the two organizations and their nations.

"Many of us, particularly those who have served in the military, will recognise the 'special relationship' that binds our two great countries, the UK and the USA, particularly as we remember the liberation of Europe and the D-day landings that took place 70 years ago in Normandy, France," James A. "Tony” Cowan said in an email Monday to National Headquarters.

"This 'special relationship' also extends to the Civil Air Patrol in both countries," Cowan added.

He also took the opportunity to note that "one of the UK CAP's most recent recruits is Bill Henry, who is also a member of the U.S. CAP Mississippi Wing."

"Bill is resident in the UK this summer, and he will now pursue his CAP activities on this side of the 'pond,'" he said.

Henry, a CAP captain, serves as deputy commander for seniors for the Mississippi Wing's Col. Berta A. Edge Composite Squadron. His wing commander, Col. Mallory Woodcock, is a native of England who moved to the U.S. in 2000 to pursue an aviation career.

Cowan's organization, also known as Sky Watch Civil Air Patrol, was founded in 2000. It focuses on the use of small aircraft and microlight pilots to assist with air traffic control and emergency services, providing search and rescue and air-sea rescue resources when called on to do so."

Interesting; thanks for sharing. 

I once asked, via CAPTALK, if anyone knew of more Brits in the CAP.  The replies offered a few names but the reality is that there are more than I thought.

Being able to be part of the CAP and to serve the young people in the cadet program was not something I ever anticipated when we moved to the United States and you have made me more than welcome since I joined in 2011. 

I've heard much in recent days about the special relationship but I've seen it at first hand, both in CAP and through the eyes of my Marine Corps son and Coastguard daughter.

Thank you for allowing me the privilege of serving with you.  I look forward to a long association!

There is a cadet in my unit who was born there to an American father and an English mother, and lived there for a time, but he doesn't have an accent.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Unlike the CAP, VRT officers hold actual commissions

It is much the same in Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

The only difference in Canada is the cap badge


RCAF Officer

RCAirC Officer

Other than that, the uniform is exactly the same as that worn by the RCAF.

In Australia and New Zealand, the only difference is the shoulder flashes; they are organisation-specific (in Australia, "AAFC") rather than just the standard curved nationality flashes.



They also tend not to have the demands of svelteness placed on them as we do, nor the Bravo Sierra gamut of "alternative" uniforms.

[Brit_in_CAP]

There is a cadet in my unit who was born there to an American father and an English mother, and lived there for a time, but he doesn't have an accent.

Interesting.  From personal experience I would say that children are much quicker in loosing accents than adults; the older they are, the less likely they are to loose the accent.  YMMV.

[Brit_in_CAP]

Unlike the CAP, VRT officers hold actual commissions

It is much the same in Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

The only difference in Canada is the cap badge


Other than that, the uniform is exactly the same as that worn by the RCAF.

In Australia and New Zealand, the only difference is the shoulder flashes; they are organisation-specific (in Australia, "AAFC") rather than just the standard curved nationality flashes.

They also tend not to have the demands of svelteness placed on them as we do, nor the Bravo Sierra gamut of "alternative" uniforms.

The similarities don't surprise me, to be honest.  I used to teach ATC history WIWAC and I have a vague memory that the Commonwealth formations drew on the mother country's model extensively.  As we've discussed elsewhere the air forces of the commonwealth drew heavily on the RAF at their formation so a similarity in the cadet organizations is to be expected.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^^My point is that the RAF/RAAF/RCAF/RNZAF do not impose the strictures on "distinctiveness" or H/W/grooming on their Cadet services that the AF does with us, nor do they have this pantechnicon full of "alternate" uniforms that we do.

http://www.aircadets.ca/870/pers_staff.shtml
The RCAirC officers of this unit are nearly indistinguishable from their RCAF counterparts.

[lordmonar]

^^^My point is that the RAF/RAAF/RCAF/RNZAF do not impose the strictures on "distinctiveness" or H/W/grooming on their Cadet services that the AF does with us, nor do they have this pantechnicon full of "alternate" uniforms that we do.

http://www.aircadets.ca/870/pers_staff.shtml
The RCAirC officers of this unit are nearly indistinguishable from their RCAF counterparts.

No....they hold their officers to the same entry criteria as their real officers....so there you go.

[Storm Chaser]

May we should do the same in CAP. 

[Mela_007]

I will be interested to hear from my fellow squadron member about his time with the UK CAP this summer!  Bring home lots of stories Bill.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^^My point is that the RAF/RAAF/RCAF/RNZAF do not impose the strictures on "distinctiveness" or H/W/grooming on their Cadet services that the AF does with us, nor do they have this pantechnicon full of "alternate" uniforms that we do.

http://www.aircadets.ca/870/pers_staff.shtml
The RCAirC officers of this unit are nearly indistinguishable from their RCAF counterparts.

No....they hold their officers to the same entry criteria as their real officers....so there you go.

Not quite in the same areas as an actual RCAF officer...but it is more extensive than CAP.

http://www.aircadets.ca/resource/enrol/adult/2016_OPC_Application_Form-2012_Master_Package.pdf

I have to say that I think the purpose-designed uniforms their cadets have are more suited than how we just try to make a cadet fit into a USAF uniform.



Also...I would wager that the adult officer leading them (the Captain, the lady with the two gold sleeve rings) would probably be forced into the G/W in CAP.

I know, I know, I know...the USAF isn't the RCAF, we're not them, they're not us, etc.

[lordmonar]

She looks fine to my uncalibrated mark -1 eyeball.

[PHall]

She looks fine to my uncalibrated mark -1 eyeball.

   +1

She looks like she's within the height/weight standards.

But the only way to know is to throw her on the scale.

[Brit_in_CAP]

She looks fine to my uncalibrated mark -1 eyeball.

   +1

She looks like she's within the height/weight standards.

But the only way to know is to throw her on the scale.

+1 from me....I see nothing adrift, personally.

I chatted quite recently with the commander of my former squadron in the ATC...based on that, I think that there *are* H/W criteria for RAFVRT officers, albeit not exactly the same as the regular service.  Happy to be proven wrong.