Government Shutdown impact to CAP?

Started by Papabird, September 25, 2013, 05:25:21 PM

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Майор Хаткевич

I'm loving the uneducated misinformation a bunch of members are spreading on social media.

SunDog

We just got the above, forwarded from our Wing.  A few days won't matter; a couple-three weeks or more, some aircraft/sqdns who cut it close on the 200 hours each year may not make it in FY14. I dunno, maybe for the best?

The money may all get there, eventually - not sure the oppurtunities to fly will all be recouped - jobs, family, PO'ed pilots, etc. Pilots will keep flying, just not in CAP aircraft.  Hope we get 'em all back. Probably - if it doesn't drag on too long?

FlyTiger77

On a personal note, my furlough notice states that during the furlough period I am not allowed to perform duties as an unpaid volunteer for the federal government. I take that to mean that although my corporate duties can continue, I can't participate as a CAP member on any missions that are federally funded.

I assume that the restriction is in place to prevent employees from effectively working for free but the verbiage is crafted broadly.

Return of the law of unintended consequences.
JACK E. MULLINAX II, Lt Col, CAP

JeffDG

Quote from: FlyTiger77 on October 01, 2013, 04:25:49 PM
On a personal note, my furlough notice states that during the furlough period I am not allowed to perform duties as an unpaid volunteer for the federal government. I take that to mean that although my corporate duties can continue, I can't participate as a CAP member on any missions that are federally funded.

I assume that the restriction is in place to prevent employees from effectively working for free but the verbiage is crafted broadly.

Return of the law of unintended consequences.
So, you're off the call list for A1's....gotcha!

A.Member

#24
Quote from: SamFranklin on October 01, 2013, 01:35:25 PM
From NHQ web:


QuoteCAP Members,
You may be wondering how the federal government shutdown affects you and your CAP unit. Even though CAP is not a government agency, because CAP receives funding through the federal government, CAP will not receive any federal funding until the budget situation is resolved. However, we need to stress that local squadrons are unaffected and will continue to meet normally, training cadets and conducting aerospace education programs...two critical missions that we can accomplish without much funding. The only exception is flying operations which is detailed below:

Only the following emergency response missions can be flown:

1. Emergency life saving and disaster response operational missions authorized in WMIRS by 1st Air Force, 11th Air Force, Pacific Air Forces, AFRCC or the AK RCC. All of these missions use mission number sequences like these examples: 14-1-XXXX, 14-M-XXX or RCC-14-XXXX.

2. Emergency response Corporate missions for state and local agencies that are funded by these agencies. (As a reminder, federal agencies cannot be supported in corporate status.)
These are the rules CAP will use for the initial days of the shutdown. If the government shutdown continues for a prolonged period, CAP will reevaluate the rules to consider authorizing other flying missions, including member-funded proficiency and checkrides.

The following will also be affected by the government shutdown:

1. Aircraft and vehicle maintenance will be delayed until CAP receives sufficient federal funding.

2. Employees at NHQ, including Wing Administrators in the field, will not report to work. A very small number of employees at the NHQ will continue to execute critical functions of the organization until this situation is resolved.

We are hopeful the duration of the government shutdown will be brief. Thank you for your understanding and patience as we deal with the major challenges a federal government shutdown entails.

Sincerely, CAP National Staff


https://www.capnhq.gov/news/Documents/Impact_Govt_Shutdown.pdf
Aside (kind of)...sorry, but the bolded portion above is the part that always gets me worked up. 

If an organization receives all of it's operational funding through a Congressional appropriation and without that funding they'd cease to operate...guess what?   They're a government agency!
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

abdsp51

Not everyone who receives funding from the government is a government agency.

A.Member

#26
Quote from: abdsp51 on October 01, 2013, 05:30:48 PM
Not everyone who receives funding from the government is a government agency.
Agreed...and not all are incorporated or rely solely on federal $ for their existance. 

It's semantics but the only difference between CAP and a "full on" government agency is the added Congressional oversight, however, we still have to supply an annual finacial report to Congress, so even that isn't too far off.

I understand there are technical differences but, in practice, they're virtually differences without distinction.  Federal Reserve is in the same category and I view it the same way...for all practical purposes, it's a government agency.  We aren't in the simple category of just being Congressionally chartered,  like the Boy Scouts or 4H.  We have a specific Congressional line item budget and that is essentially our sole source of operating income.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

Eclipse

#27
On the paid side of the house, this is simply the reality of working for the feds, it is unfortunate that hard-working and sometimes struggling people
are stuck in the middle of a gridlocked government, but it is what it is.  This affects primarily the WAs and HQ staff.  At least for now, the LRADOs are
being directed to report for work but are not being paid. 

On the volunteer side, this has nearly ZERO EFFECT.

It does not impact meetings at any level or echelon (unless you happen to meet somewhere that is physically closed, in which case, Semper Gumby).
Nor does this freeze, confiscate, reduce, eliminate, or tax unit funds on deposit with the WBP or corporate donations or initiatives not
funded by appropriations.  The Feds are not going to "take the unit's color guard money like we always told you they were going to do to fund ES and
pay NHQ salaries, etc., etc... "((*sigh*)) Seriously?

Assuming it only lasts a maximum of a couple of weeks, it has little effect on aircrew or ground training. Why? 
Because CAP wings never get their appropriations before the second or third week of Q1 anyway, which means shutdown or no,
there would be no bucks and no Buck rogers until almost Halloween regardless.

No one schedules anything of consequence during October for this reason.  No inspections, no major SARExs, etc., etc., but your
compass, L-Per and CAP-issued radio will still work, appropriation or not, so no excuse to stop unit-level training and activities.

It does not effect AFAMS for missing aircraft or DR because those are considered "critical" and have protected funding, and/or are
agency funded at a more local level.

The only noticeable effect is in member-funded flying, primarily because of maintenance funds.  This shouldn't be marginalized too
much, but October isn't exactly a historically banner month for self-funded flying, at least in my wing.

The biggest risk, and we do this to ourselves every time there's a similar issue, is a "the sky is falling" mentality that needlessly
brings the carrier to a halt, resulting in weeks or months of ancillary assumptions that CAP has no money.

Unless specifically directed to do so, no one should "stop" anything - all planning should continue, requests acted on, meetings held, etc.,
etc.  That way we don't have to run from a dead stop when the appropriations are released, which is going to happen, one way or another.


"That Others May Zoom"

Phil Hirons, Jr.

Quote from: Eclipse on October 01, 2013, 07:07:05 PM
No one schedules anything of consequence during October for this reason.  No inspections, no major SARExs, etc., etc., but your
compass, L-Per and CAP-issued radio will still work, appropriation or not, so no excuse to stop unit-level training and activities.

I only wish that were true. RI Wing's CI is scheduled for 4-7 October. We are waiting to hear if it gets postponed. :o

Eclipse

Quote from: phirons on October 01, 2013, 07:14:30 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on October 01, 2013, 07:07:05 PM
No one schedules anything of consequence during October for this reason.  No inspections, no major SARExs, etc., etc., but your
compass, L-Per and CAP-issued radio will still work, appropriation or not, so no excuse to stop unit-level training and activities.

I only wish that were true. RI Wing's CI is scheduled for 4-7 October. We are waiting to hear if it gets postponed. :o

You've got to be kidding me.  Unless they do it with zero travel budget, odds are it will get pushed back.
Perhaps your region is different, but in 14 years, I've never seen any money before the 2nd week in Oct and
that's usually a random "nice".

Come to think of it, we've had CI's in late October and whenever that occurs it's a chicken scramble about whether we'll
have funding.

"That Others May Zoom"

A.Member

#30
Quote from: Eclipse on October 01, 2013, 07:07:05 PM
On the paid side of the house, this is simply the reality of working for the feds, it is unfortunate that hard-working and sometimes struggling people
are stuck in the middle of a gridlocked government, but it is what it is.  This affects primarily the WAs and HQ staff.  At least for now, the LRADOs are
being directed to report for work but are not being paid. 

On the volunteer side, this has nearly ZERO EFFECT.

It does not impact meetings at any level or echelon (unless you happen to meet somewhere that is physically closed, in which case, Semper Gumby).
Nor does this freeze, confiscate, reduce, eliminate, or tax unit funds on deposit with the WBP or corporate donations or initiatives not
funded by appropriations.  The Feds are not going to "take the unit's color guard money like we always told you they were going to do to fund ES and
pay NHQ salaries, etc., etc... "((*sigh*)) Seriously?

Assuming it only lasts a maximum of a couple of weeks, it has little effect on aircrew or ground training. Why? 
Because CAP wings never get their appropriations before the second or third week of Q1 anyway, which means shutdown or no,
there would be no bucks and no Buck rogers until almost Halloween regardless.

No one schedules anything of consequence during October for this reason.  No inspections, no major SARExs, etc., etc., but your
compass, L-Per and CAP-issued radio will still work, appropriation or not, so no excuse to stop unit-level training and activities.

It does not effect AFAMS for missing aircraft or DR because those are considered "critical" and have protected funding, and/or are
agency funded at a more local level.

The only noticeable effect is in member-funded flying, primarily because of maintenance funds.  This shouldn't be marginalized too
much, but October isn't exactly a historically banner month for self-funded flying, at least in my wing.

The biggest risk, and we do this to ourselves every time there's a similar issue, is a "the sky is falling" mentality that needlessly
brings the carrier to a halt, resulting in weeks or months of ancillary assumptions that CAP has no money.

Unless specifically directed to do so, no one should "stop" anything - all planning should continue, requests acted on, meetings held, etc.,
etc.  That way we don't have to run from a dead stop when the appropriations are released, which is going to happen, one way or another.
Agree that the sky isn't falling and the impact to volunteers is reduced - but it's not zero or approaching zero either.

Some of this may get into specifics as to how individual Wings/units operate, regardless, Operations is definitely impacted.  As of now there is absolutely NO flying, even self funded flying (mission exception posted early noted).   There is NO maintenance, so whether your aircraft needs an oil change or your van needs a new tire...it's gonna wait.  In addition, reimbursement for member expenses may be delayed significantly as volunteer staff members step into the role of the paid administrator.  Etc.   So, it's not entirely business as normal. 
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

Phil Hirons, Jr.

Quote from: Eclipse on October 01, 2013, 07:44:03 PM
Quote from: phirons on October 01, 2013, 07:14:30 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on October 01, 2013, 07:07:05 PM
No one schedules anything of consequence during October for this reason.  No inspections, no major SARExs, etc., etc., but your
compass, L-Per and CAP-issued radio will still work, appropriation or not, so no excuse to stop unit-level training and activities.

I only wish that were true. RI Wing's CI is scheduled for 4-7 October. We are waiting to hear if it gets postponed. :o

You've got to be kidding me.  Unless they do it with zero travel budget, odds are it will get pushed back.
Perhaps your region is different, but in 14 years, I've never seen any money before the 2nd week in Oct and
that's usually a random "nice".

Come to think of it, we've had CI's in late October and whenever that occurs it's a chicken scramble about whether we'll
have funding.

Add to that the fact that the first weekend of the month is drill weekend and RIWG HQ is on Quonset ANGB.  :-\

Essentially we can't get the AF to agree that CAP ticking off the ANG is a bad idea.

JeffDG

Quote from: Eclipse on October 01, 2013, 07:44:03 PM
Quote from: phirons on October 01, 2013, 07:14:30 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on October 01, 2013, 07:07:05 PM
No one schedules anything of consequence during October for this reason.  No inspections, no major SARExs, etc., etc., but your
compass, L-Per and CAP-issued radio will still work, appropriation or not, so no excuse to stop unit-level training and activities.

I only wish that were true. RI Wing's CI is scheduled for 4-7 October. We are waiting to hear if it gets postponed. :o

You've got to be kidding me.  Unless they do it with zero travel budget, odds are it will get pushed back.
Perhaps your region is different, but in 14 years, I've never seen any money before the 2nd week in Oct and
that's usually a random "nice".

Come to think of it, we've had CI's in late October and whenever that occurs it's a chicken scramble about whether we'll
have funding.
We had AF Training Funds October 1 last year...

Of course, they blocked WMIRS out the last two weeks of September, so you couldn't submit missions for the new FY (even with no funds), so we had our nice regulatory 21 day turnaround on approval for AFAMs to deal with anyway.

This year, WMIRS remained open and we have no money.

SunDog

I think a couple of us will be doing MP proficency training, regardless. At least this way, I can wear an old sweatshirt and shorts, or jammies and bunny slippers, if we I care to.

PHall

Quote from: SunDog on October 01, 2013, 09:28:23 PM
I think a couple of us will be doing MP proficency training, regardless. At least this way, I can wear an old sweatshirt and shorts, or jammies and bunny slippers, if we I care to.

You just won't be doing it in a CAP aircraft. And watch the Bunny Slippers, the Ears can get caught in the pedals! >:D

SunDog

 ;D

Will exercise extreme caution!  It's a goof every year anyway, shutting down to accomodate bean counting. Stop, stumble, and fall contunues. . .

NCRblues

Quote from: Eclipse on October 01, 2013, 07:07:05 PM


No one schedules anything of consequence during October for this reason.  No inspections, no major SARExs, etc., etc.,



NHQ was supposed to select NCSA directors this week... Not a big deal just a PITB

Maybe CAP should start a "no major activities or selections time" at the transitional period of fiscal years
In god we trust, all others we run through NCIC

Eclipse

#37
Quote from: NCRblues on October 01, 2013, 10:44:08 PM
NHQ was supposed to select NCSA directors this week... Not a big deal just a PITB

Those decisions should be made by volunteer staff, and there's no reason they should be delayed because of lack of appropriations.

The same goes for the WBP.  I realize that some of the reason we even have WAs is because of issues with finances and that WBP
related tasks are part of their job description, but IMHO a lot of wings have all but advocated abdicated the volunteer responsibilities of the Wing FM,
and that ain't right, especially if it's used as an excuse for not signing a WBP check.

"That Others May Zoom"

RiverAux


SarDragon

Quote from: Eclipse on October 01, 2013, 11:03:33 PM
Quote from: NCRblues on October 01, 2013, 10:44:08 PM
NHQ was supposed to select NCSA directors this week... Not a big deal just a PITB

Those decisions should be made by volunteer staff, and there's no reason they should be delayed because of lack of appropriations.

The same goes for the WBP.  I realize that some of the reason we even have WAs is because of issues with finances and that WBP
related tasks are part of their job description, but IMHO a lot of wings have all but advocated abdicated (?) the volunteer responsibilities of the Wing FM,
and that ain't right, especially if it's used as an excuse for not signing a WBP check.

FTFY.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret