Aircrew Basic Wings on Shirt - Scanner

[zippy]

Does someone that is a qualified scanner get to wear the Aircrew Basic wings on the golf shirt? Vanguard has a drop-down for this shirt. Is aircrew basic the one for a scanner?
This is the shirt:
https://www.vanguardmil.com/products/civil-air-patrol-male-golf-shirt-with-seal-uniform?variant=1153574696

[SarDragon]

I suppose you can, if you have no aspirations of any qualifications past that, like Mission Observer.

[zippy]

I suppose you can, if you have no aspirations of any qualifications past that, like Mission Observer.

Can someone wear the basic wing if he advances to observer and higher, or is there a rule against it?

[CAP9907]

Sure can, as long as you were qualified as a MS at one point

[N6RVT]

Does someone that is a qualified scanner get to wear the Aircrew Basic wings on the golf shirt? Vanguard has a drop-down for this shirt. Is aircrew basic the one for a scanner?
This is the shirt:
https://www.vanguardmil.com/products/civil-air-patrol-male-golf-shirt-with-seal-uniform?variant=1153574696

I did.  I still wear it, the qualification still shows in Eservices.  By the time you move to higher ratings usually everybody knows you.

[Eclipse]

I suppose you can, if you have no aspirations of any qualifications past that, like Mission Observer.

So observer is "aspirational" now?

CAP exists in a world of rhetoric about sensor packages and AP sorties, yet for some reason the GIBs,
who are often doing the actual mission work get left in the head.

[PHall]

Why do you guys keep taking Zippy's bait?

[SarDragon]

I suppose you can, if you have no aspirations of any qualifications past that, like Mission Observer.

So observer is "aspirational" now?

CAP exists in a world of rhetoric about sensor packages and AP sorties, yet for some reason the GIBs,
who are often doing the actual mission work get left in the head.

Not what I said at all. Some folks are content to be the GIB, and have no plans to move up front. However, being qualified as an MO certainly adds value to being the GIB. For those content folks, go ahead and get your AC wings embroidered on your shirt.

However comma if you plan on moving up, spending the bucks on a shirt you might only wear for six months seems like a waste of money.

[Okayish Aviator]

Don't forget the wear of aviation badges are mandatory.

[Eclipse]

Don't forget the wear of aviation badges are mandatory.

On USAF combinations.  The question was asked about the golf shirt

[NovemberWhiskey]

On USAF combinations.

... and the Corporate Field Uniform.

[Blanding]

On USAF combinations.

... and the Corporate Field Uniform.

CAPM 39-1 5.2.1.4.6 says "Two Aviation or Occupational badges...may be worn..."

Is there a different place where the manual states they're mandatory on the corporate field uniform?

[LSThiker]

On USAF combinations.

... and the Corporate Field Uniform.

CAPM 39-1 5.2.1.4.6 says "Two Aviation or Occupational badges...may be worn..."

Is there a different place where the manual states they're mandatory on the corporate field uniform?

Keep reading:

Chaplain and CAP aviation badges are mandatory and will always be worn in the
highest position.

Can someone wear the basic wing if he advances to observer and higher, or is there a rule against it?

As far as wearing aircrew wings or observer wings:

When more than one CAP aviation badge is authorized, only one badge representing the highest CAP aeronautical rating (pilot before observer) will be worn.

[Blanding]

Keep reading:

Chaplain and CAP aviation badges are mandatory and will always be worn in the
highest position.

Ah - thanks for that! I missed it on the first read through.

[Mitchell 1969]

On USAF combinations.

... and the Corporate Field Uniform.

CAPM 39-1 5.2.1.4.6 says "Two Aviation or Occupational badges...may be worn..."

Is there a different place where the manual states they're mandatory on the corporate field uniform?

Keep reading:

Chaplain and CAP aviation badges are mandatory and will always be worn in the
highest position.

Can someone wear the basic wing if he advances to observer and higher, or is there a rule against it?

As far as wearing aircrew wings or observer wings:

When more than one CAP aviation badge is authorized, only one badge representing the highest CAP aeronautical rating (pilot before observer) will be worn.

Whoa! Are you quoting CAPM 39-1 5.2.1.4.6 when you state that pilot is higher than observer?  Because I didn't see that there. Or is that your personal interpretation?

Is a pilot higher than a Master Observer? If a Senior Pilot also has a rating of Air Crew and is no longer current as a pilot, should he wear the wings for the job he is doing or the one he used to do, on the basis of one being higher than the other?

If I hold ratings as  Pilot, Master Air Crew, Glider Pilot and Senior Observer, is Pilot still my "highest" aeronautical rating? Or is the choice up to me?


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[NIN]

Don't confuse "importance" with "highest award".

Sure, pilot is important. Observer too.

However, in this instance, the term "highest" denotes the level (basic, senior, master). You'd wear the badge with the star or star-and-toilet-seat above the basic badge.

Now if you have two basic badges (or two of the same level), which one goes higher? Like Southwest airlines says during the preflight briefing on oxygen mask wear when traveling with two kids: "pick the one you love the most."

[N6RVT]

Is a pilot higher than a Master Observer?

About a year from now I will be both.  I will make VFR Pilot and Master Observer about the same time.

I still have my aircrew & basic observer polo shirts and still use both.  Eservices shows the rating as still valid, they don't revoke the lower rating when you move up.

[Mitchell 1969]

Is a pilot higher than a Master Observer?

About a year from now I will be both.  I will make VFR Pilot and Master Observer about the same time.

Where does this "VFR Pilot" come from? I keep seeing it but it is not based on any document that pertains to aeronautical ratings. There is no aeronautical rating with that name. The rating is simply "Pilot." That rating can be held by pilots limited to flying VFR, or it can be held by pilots with IFR ratings or pilots holding ATP certificates.  Any of them would hold the rating of "Pilot" unless and until they met the hour requirement and time in rating requirements.



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[NovemberWhiskey]

Ops Quals?

[Mitchell 1969]

Ops Quals?

CAP is clearly confused on this point and has passed that confusion on to some of the membership.

Ops quals has no bearing on the issue. Those are qualifications to do certain things.  Awarding aeronautical ratings isn't one of them; neither is making up titles for aeronautical ratings. And, there are lots of CAP members holding the Aeronautical rating of Pilot who do not participate in Ops for a variety of reasons. That doesn't make them "non VFR pilots" any more than participating in ops makes those holding the aeronautical rating of Pilot into "VFR pilots."




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[NovemberWhiskey]

If we are to be persnickety about the details; we should have them right... "pilot" is in fact a category of certificates covering e.g. private pilot. Upon that private pilot certificate, the ratings are placed - to include category (e.g. airplane) and class (e.g. single-engine land), as well as those related to instrument operation of the same (e.g. instrument - airplane).

I don't think anyone is suggesting that CAP issues pilot certificates or ratings; rather simply that being certificated as a private pilot with rating for aircraft / single-engine land doesn't immediately imply any CAP-specific qualification; but is just one of the pre-requisites towards achieving CAP qualifications with names like "CAP Pilot", ref. CAPR 70-1.

Possibly I'm just not understanding your point, however.

[Mitchell 1969]

If we are to be persnickety about the details; we should have them right... "pilot" is in fact a category of certificates covering e.g. private pilot. Upon that private pilot certificate, the ratings are placed - to include category (e.g. airplane) and class (e.g. single-engine land), as well as those related to instrument operation of the same (e.g. instrument - airplane).

I don't think anyone is suggesting that CAP issues pilot certificates or ratings; rather simply that being certificated as a private pilot with rating for aircraft / single-engine land doesn't immediately imply any CAP-specific qualification; but is just one of the pre-requisites towards achieving CAP qualifications with names like "CAP Pilot", ref. CAPR 70-1.

Possibly I'm just not understanding your point, however.

Holders of the aeronautical rating of Pilot are not limited to Private Pilots. Commercial and ATP certificate holders can also hold that rating. Also, holders of the Pilot rating are not limited to VFR only.

The name of the rating is Pilot. Whatever other titles anyone wants to append for other Pilot purposes (VFR Pilot, Mission Pilot, Cadet Orientation Pilot, etc. does not change the rating and is separate snd spart from the aeronautical rating.

In short, when talking about ratings, as was the case higher up in the thread (Master Observer and VFR Pilot) the latter was incorrect. They would be a Master Observer and a Pilot.

That's about it.


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[NovemberWhiskey]

I see now: when you were referring to "aeronautical rating", you're talking about things listed in CAPR 35-6, which does indeed list six such ratings for pilots of various kinds and tenures; rather than the qualifications in CAPR 70-1 which are the basis for those ratings or the Part 61 ratings.

The pilot qualifications are indeed orthogonal to ES specialty qualifications, but they are still managed in Ops Quals (c.f. also the title CAPR 35-6: "Operations Ratings, Awards and Badges", emphasis mine).

What is tagged as "VFR Pilot" in Ops Quals is exactly the "CAP Pilot" qualification from CAPR 70-1, which results in (at least) the "CAP Pilot Rating" from CAPR 35-6. I suppose it is tagged that way for the purposes of disambiguation.

I would argue that from most practical perspectives, the "aeronautical rating" is much less relevant than the actual qualification.

[Mitchell 1969]

I see now: when you were referring to "aeronautical rating", you're talking about things listed in CAPR 35-6, which does indeed list six such ratings for pilots of various kinds and tenures; rather than the qualifications in CAPR 70-1 which are the basis for those ratings or the Part 61 ratings.

The pilot qualifications are indeed orthogonal to ES specialty qualifications, but they are still managed in Ops Quals (c.f. also the title CAPR 35-6: "Operations Ratings, Awards and Badges", emphasis mine).

What is tagged as "VFR Pilot" in Ops Quals is exactly the "CAP Pilot" qualification from CAPR 70-1, which results in (at least) the "CAP Pilot Rating" from CAPR 35-6. I suppose it is tagged that way for the purposes of disambiguation.

I would argue that from most practical perspectives, the "aeronautical rating" is much less relevant than the actual qualification.

Call ops pilots anything you want. "Flight Admiral of the Skies Above," for all I care. But that will not be their aeronautical rating. And, the badge for holding the aeronautical rating is and always has been "Pilot," not "VFR Pilot."That's all I'm saying and I have said it, so I'm moving on for now.


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[SarDragon]

After rereading this a number of times, I see this conclusion:

1. The wings represent CAP ratings - Pilot, passed a Form 5; Senior Pilot, a Pilot with 1000 hours and 3 years; Command Pilot, Pilot with 2000 hours and 5 years.

2. VFR Pilot, Instrument Pilot, Commercial Pilot, etc. represent skill levels, some being FAA ratings, and others being subsets within CAP to designate who can fly what and when (VFR, HP, Mountain, etc.).

I think we're done here. Got additions, PM me.