ELT Finding After 2/1/09?

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

3.  While the FCC requires 406 ELT owners to register their beacons with NOAA, I haven't yet heard of any penalty for failing to register the beacon, and if you have stale data or are not reachable when your ELT goes off....  We should get the callout just like now.

RIWG got called out on a 406 about a week ago. AFRCC got the make and model from the broadcast serial #, but it had not been registered. Mission ended after 4 null passes.

[ol'fido]

Wanted to say something about FBO's monitoring or not monitoring 121.5. Back in the 83-84 time frame when SARSATs were in their stone age days, we got a report of an hit at or near the local airport. We called the FBO and asked him to check the aircraft on the field.  He reported to us that he had checked every a/c and there was no ELT signal.  In order to double check   we asked him to check again and make sure his radio was set to 121.5 exactly. That's when he told us he hadn't used a radio. He had just walked around every a/c and listened for the beacon signal audibly. This guy  was a licensed pilot and had been an FBO for over a year. Never assume anything  about FBO and ELTs.

[JoeTomasone]

RIWG got called out on a 406 about a week ago. AFRCC got the make and model from the broadcast serial #, but it had not been registered. Mission ended after 4 null passes.

Were they able to discern if it was an ELT, EPIRB, or PLB?

How long after the EPIRB was picked up was CAP called?

I'm wondering if we won't get more callouts like this where you get missed passes and sent home versus never getting sent out at all since it never made the minimum number of passes on 121.5.

I presume there was no GPS data either.     Do you know how clustered the merges were?

[JoeTomasone]

That's when he told us he hadn't used a radio. He had just walked around every a/c and listened for the beacon signal audibly. This guy  was a licensed pilot and had been an FBO for over a year. Never assume anything  about FBO and ELTs.

That earthquake you just felt was my jaw hitting the ground.

[isuhawkeye]

not surprising.  we've called air traffic control towers to ask if they heard anything.  during the conversation we could hear the sweped tone of the beacon in the background.  The controllers response was that they hadnt heard anything.  When we inquired about the warble in the back ground they admitted that they didn't know what that was

[ol'fido]

The worst ELT mission so far. Marion, IL 2002. Guy was rebuilding airplane in garage in a residential neighborhood. He lived right under high tension line. The whole town of Marion was a hit. We even got one hit that was 18 miles north and as near as I can figure, it was my house!(no i didn't have anything that would generate a signal).

Second worst, Southern Illinois Univ. Aviation School hangar. 1 Hangar + 32 airplanes+ highly resonant signal=big headache. Had to physically craawl into airplanes and check ELTs. Nailed  it on #14.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

RIWG got called out on a 406 about a week ago. AFRCC got the make and model from the broadcast serial #, but it had not been registered. Mission ended after 4 null passes.

Were they able to discern if it was an ELT, EPIRB, or PLB?

How long after the EPIRB was picked up was CAP called?

I'm wondering if we won't get more callouts like this where you get missed passes and sent home versus never getting sent out at all since it never made the minimum number of passes on 121.5.

I presume there was no GPS data either.     Do you know how clustered the merges were?

No GPS. It was a Littion (I think) EPIRB. The 3 coordinates we got were within 5 miles of each other. We covered the area with UDF Teams, but had no air support as RI was under tropical storm conditions.  We never heard the tone.

Not sure on the time after detection we were called.

[Eclipse]

not surprising.  we've called air traffic control towers to ask if they heard anything.  during the conversation we could hear the sweped tone of the beacon in the background.  The controllers response was that they hadnt heard anything.  When we inquired about the warble in the back ground they admitted that they didn't know what that was

If we're smart, we can parley this into an outreach situation and educate the FBO's on their new responsibilities, while at the same time raise awareness of CAP.

[DNall]

RIWG got called out on a 406 about a week ago. AFRCC got the make and model from the broadcast serial #, but it had not been registered. Mission ended after 4 null passes.

Were they able to discern if it was an ELT, EPIRB, or PLB?

How long after the EPIRB was picked up was CAP called?

I'm wondering if we won't get more callouts like this where you get missed passes and sent home versus never getting sent out at all since it never made the minimum number of passes on 121.5.

I presume there was no GPS data either.     Do you know how clustered the merges were?

No GPS. It was a Littion (I think) EPIRB. The 3 coordinates we got were within 5 miles of each other. We covered the area with UDF Teams, but had no air support as RI was under tropical storm conditions.  We never heard the tone.

Not sure on the time after detection we were called.

You have to be more detail oriented w/ 406 beacons. The 121.5 signal doesn't project nearly as far. You may have to walk right next to a closed hanger door to detect it in some cases - where with a traditional ELT you could have driven down an access road a couple hundred yards from a flight line & known for sure if something was active on the field or not. I tend to think aircraft are a bit less useful, but it's hard to say. There's a bit more art to 406 than older ELTs - kind of like a low battery ELT.

[JoeTomasone]

You have to be more detail oriented w/ 406 beacons. The 121.5 signal doesn't project nearly as far. You may have to walk right next to a closed hanger door to detect it in some cases - where with a traditional ELT you could have driven down an access road a couple hundred yards from a flight line & known for sure if something was active on the field or not. I tend to think aircraft are a bit less useful, but it's hard to say. There's a bit more art to 406 than older ELTs - kind of like a low battery ELT.

What model beacons have you been chasing?   As I stated above, I am having difficulty finding even one model that transmits under the "normal" 100mw of a 121.5 ELT.

[DNall]

I've never in my life cared, much less recalled, who the manufacturer of a beacon is. I don't know that it's a matter of power setting. The beacons are different, and in my experience are a bit harder to find.

[lordmonar]

I've never in my life cared, much less recalled, who the manufacturer of a beacon is. I don't know that it's a matter of power setting. The beacons are different, and in my experience are a bit harder to find.

That is true.  The 121.5 becon on the new 406 ELTs is a lower power than the 121.5 only becons....so they will be harder to find in an absolute sense....and in the sense of localising an ELT inside a hanger or getting some sort of reflection.

Were COSPAS is superior is that the initial Area of Probablilty is small than with SARSAT so you start closer to your target when you start DFing the 121.5 signal.

Also COSPAS is quicker....it does not require as many passes as SARSAT so you get the inital call out quicker than with SARSAT.

[Larry Mangum]

Worst ELT trace: Sept 8, 2001, carrier only signal finally tracked down to the jumbotron's in the Puyallup Fairgrounds during the Washington State Western fair.  Meet up with the FCC in the fairgrounds and we both tracked it to the stage area. Only when we had them start turning off equipment was the source isolated.  FCC gave them the choice of jail and a 10,000 dollar fine per day or turning them off. Spent some time talking to the band that was practicing and later realized I had been talking to Jodi Messina.  To make a long story short, they never got to use the jumbtron's due to the attacks next day, which grounded the team that was being dispatched to fix them.

[DNall]

I've had some very entertaining DF experiences, but hardest was just recently on Tiki Island after Ike. There was probably 15-30 signals going off on that little island with reflections everywhere, lots of boats & everything wrecked. At this point the batteries were getting low so too, and some were carrier only. It's insane to try diagnosing thru reflections when you can't isolate anything. We found three & still had active signals when we left for the day. Lot of that was on 406 beacons (obviously being boats).

My point was/is... you cannot do the same old thing you used to do looking for older ELTs. For instance, I used to clear an Airport in Alvin by driving up the highway next to it & never actually going on the field. I could be about 99% certain there was nothing there by doing that. If I get a 406 beacon there now, then I have to go on the field get up a lot closer to hangers.

It's not easier or harder than the older ones. With the old ones you had to cover a larger area & diagnose the signal down till you got close, then it was reasonably easy to find. Now, you start closer in, but it's a bit harder to get to the source.

If I had to guess, I'd say mission times are going to run about the same, but we're not going to need air support as often, and will probably do a bit less driving but a lot more walking.

[sardak]

Regarding the 121.5  homing signal power for 406 beacons, these are from the specs:
PLB (RTCM Standard 11010.2)
25 mW to 100 mW (for the sparkchasers, specifically 25 mW -0/+6dB PEIRP)

EPIRB (RTCM Standard 11000.2)
same as PLB

ELT (RTCA Standard DO-204A)
50 mW to 400 mW (EIRP shall not be less than -13 dBW or greater than -4 dBW)

US 406 beacons are coded to type, so the RCCs are supposed to know what type of beacon it is.  And if you ever get to hear a PLB, they transmit a Morse Code "P" (di-dah-dah-dit) on 121.5. 

Here is a presentation on the Coast Guard's capability to DF 406 MHz signals. 
USCG 406 DF
They are working with Becker on a portable (backpackable) DF setup (the Becker will DF the 406 signal).  Becker had a demo model of this at the NASAR conference this past May.  Talking price of $20,000 +, so don't expect to trade-in the L-Pers and Sniffers.

As for Cospas being superior to Sarsat, that may be, but there currently aren't any satellites in the Cospas system. The last Nadezhda was retired earlier this year. However, the replacement satellites, Sterkh -1 and -2 are scheduled for launch later this year (several years late, so it still may not happen in 2008). The Sterkhs are the first dedicated SAR satellites. To date, all Cospas and Sarsat packages have flown as subsystems on other satellites.  The Sterkhs are "micro-sats."

Mike