Sources for approved ABU winter outerwear

[Shuman 14]

Then we all need to decide on an already existing uniform... be it USAF, another Branch of the military, police department, fire department, EMS agency, corrections department, etcetera... and go with that.

That's the thing sir, we all don't get to decide, so all of this continued discussion on changing to one uniform or another is moot until Ma Blue says otherwise.

In the meantime, any source of approved outerwear is greatly appreciated.

Really? I call Bravo Sierra. Some how I don't believe that the USAF designed and approved our Corporate whites and greys.

Yes when it comes to their uniforms, our USAF-style uniforms, I understand they get to make the call but I don't see them giving two shakes of a dragons tail about corporate uniforms.

So the Uniform Board has no real mission, they meet to discuss meeting again next year?

What I'm saying is the membership of CAP should have some input, the National Uniform Board is not a dictatorship and they should take in account what the membership at large wants.

If the Uniform Board was to decide tomorrow that the new corporate field uniform was was a long sleeve day-glow yellow t-shirt with embroidered CAP seal in blue on the right breast and big CAP on the back which was to be worn with a matching day-glow yellow ball cap and olive green tactical/bdu pants with black boot... would the USAF care? Would the members at large buy it? After all, this would be a very practical SAR, UDF, GT uniform wouldn't it? Not para-military at all, I'm sure that would turn many members off.

The point being, the Uniform Board should come up with some options and recommendations for... be they Air Force based, Airline based, Army Air Corps based or First Responder based uniforms... submit these ideas to the members at large, have a vote, and then they take the winner back to the USAF and say, this is what the majority of our membership would like to have as a Dress/Service, Field/Working, and Flight Uniform. We'd like your input so we can make a final decision.   

[heliodoc]

So the Uniform Board has no real mission, they meet to discuss meeting again next year?  Good Question

IF they were a FT CAP volunteer organization like us at the Unit level, and really asked us and proved to us "what the Air Force wants."

Discussion here shows there isn't always that belief of economies of scale and we certainly could / would/ should do better in 80 years

[Capt Thompson]

The uniform board makes decisions that are then approved by the Air Force, and yes they do care about our corporate uniform. The thing is, I don't think the membership at large cares half as much about whites and greys as the folks here on CT. We've had whites and greys for decades and the only real change was the color of the rank slides. I think most folks with whites and greys in their closet would be more upset about buying a new uniform, buying new ranks, etc.

The system isn't anywhere near as broke as you make it out to be sir. Sure we're having issues with finding ABU's for Cadets, but the Senior corp uniform isn't really an issue. Every single week, it's either a discussion on changing the uniforms, or changing the rank structure, or sometimes both in the same thread. What is the fixation with warrant officer ranks and new corp uniforms, especially when the OP had nothing to do with either?

[Spam]

Here's a thought:

Lets compile a list of verbiage to help the average member (heck, the average mom and dad, because these are OUR CUSTOMERS, and we need to help them search and find the best available approved clothing). So, here's a start on taxonomy to use in a search engine for Ebay or other online sources:



ABU APECS Parka, All Purpose, Environmental, Camouflage NSN 8415-01-547-3518
(other spelled in listings: "Goretex" or "Gore Tex"") 
This is the ABU pattern (bluegreen, tiger stripe) outer wear parka shell (aka "barrier wear").
DO make sure that it specifies "ABU", and not "ACU" or some other pattern.
DO NOT use the term "coat" because that refers to the regular 4 pocket shirt.
DO make sure it shows that it has a fold out hood.
The CAP uniform regulation (CAPR39-1) reference is: 6.19 "ABU Gortex [sic] Parka (Figure 6.".


Fleece jacket, sage green, NSN 8415-010538-67
This is the lightweight fleece pullover that goes under the parka, also approved for wear by itself.
DO make sure the color is "Sage" green, not "Foliage" green (which is Army style).
DO NOT get tan, coyote colors etc. for wear with ABUs.
Has fleece everywhere except the shoulders, 
Has 2 hand pockets, 
Has green velcro loop patches to place your name tags.
CAP uniform regulation reference 6.1.10 "Green Fleece (Figure 6.".

ABU Goretex Trousers, NSN 8415-01-547-3010
DO make sure they are ABU bluegreen tiger stripe pattern only.
Designed to run a size large, as these are typically worn over your ABU trousers.
Has zippered side pockets to access your regular ABU trouser pockets when worn over them.



Anyways. A start. Any other ideas/inputs to guide searchers? Can y'all please check my data?
Could someone check me on the sage green vs foliage green for example?

R/s
Spam

#stayontarget

[Shuman 14]

Could someone check me on the sage green vs foliage green for example?

They are same thing, same design, same manufacturers, same color.

[Capt Thompson]

Could someone check me on the sage green vs foliage green for example?

They are same thing, same design, same manufacturers, same color.

That's sage advice......sorry, couldn't help it

[NovemberWhiskey]

What I think I know: the fleece is also referred to as the ECWCS Generation III Level 3 fleece. The foliage green color is the correct color for wear, and I'm pretty sure this is actually the same jacket that the Army wore with the ACU.

The one I have has the same NSN 8415-010538-67 as Spam suggests, and the NSN database describes the color as "(HUES) GREEN, FOLIAGE 504 MAIN BODY".

[SarDragon]

What I think I know: the fleece is also referred to as the ECWCS Generation III Level 3 fleece. The foliage green color is the correct color for wear, and I'm pretty sure this is actually the same jacket that the Army wore with the ACU.

The one I have has the same NSN 8415-010538-67 as Spam suggests, and the NSN database describes the color as "(HUES) GREEN, FOLIAGE 504 MAIN BODY".

The NSN in red doesn't look like the correct format - NNNN-01-NNN-NNNN

Also, those NSNs only refer to one size; other sizes have different numbers.

[NovemberWhiskey]

One of those zeroes should have been a dash... The NSNs prefixed with 8415-01-538-67 are the right ones.

The last two digits are 39 for S/R, 42 for M/R, 47 for L/R, 52 for L/L, 54 for XL/R and 68 for XL/L. 

[TheSkyHornet]

What I think I know: the fleece is also referred to as the ECWCS Generation III Level 3 fleece. The foliage green color is the correct color for wear, and I'm pretty sure this is actually the same jacket that the Army wore with the ACU.

The one I have has the same NSN 8415-010538-67 as Spam suggests, and the NSN database describes the color as "(HUES) GREEN, FOLIAGE 504 MAIN BODY".

On that note:
Please please please assist people when they purchase/locate fleeces. There are a lot of incorrect fleeces out there; although, they "look pretty close."

What you'll see an Army recruiter or competition team member wear is not necessarily the ACU-style Gen III fleece.

The fleece needs to have the CAP tape space on the left breast (right side from front view), name tape space on the right breast (left side from front view), and grade insignia space above the name tape on the right breast.

I've seen fleeces that have insignia velcro sewn over the wrong side, which tells me it's a handmade or it's a style from a possible competition team or general non-military wear (even though it looks similar). The team specialty patches usually go over the left breast, so it often gets mistaken for the insignia spot. There are a lot of surplus quick-finds out there which can be great and affordable (usually need quite a bit of washing, though); but make sure it's the correct item.

Correct appearance:


Also, please ensure that members are wearing the appropriate tapes/patches on the fleece. I rarely see members who have all of the patches on their fleece when they're out at activities.

[Capt Thompson]

What I think I know: the fleece is also referred to as the ECWCS Generation III Level 3 fleece. The foliage green color is the correct color for wear, and I'm pretty sure this is actually the same jacket that the Army wore with the ACU.

The one I have has the same NSN 8415-010538-67 as Spam suggests, and the NSN database describes the color as "(HUES) GREEN, FOLIAGE 504 MAIN BODY".

On that note:
Please please please assist people when they purchase/locate fleeces. There are a lot of incorrect fleeces out there; although, they "look pretty close."

What you'll see an Army recruiter or competition team member wear is not necessarily the ACU-style Gen III fleece.

The fleece needs to have the CAP tape space on the left breast (right side from front view), name tape space on the right breast (left side from front view), and grade insignia space above the name tape on the right breast.

I've seen fleeces that have insignia velcro sewn over the wrong side, which tells me it's a handmade or it's a style from a possible competition team or general non-military wear (even though it looks similar). The team specialty patches usually go over the left breast, so it often gets mistaken for the insignia spot. There are a lot of surplus quick-finds out there which can be great and affordable (usually need quite a bit of washing, though); but make sure it's the correct item.

Correct appearance:


Also, please ensure that members are wearing the appropriate tapes/patches on the fleece. I rarely see members who have all of the patches on their fleece when they're out at activities.

I purchased my fleece commercially, not a sage but a black from Tru-Spec for the BBDU's, and the velcro came in the pocket. I have a Cadet that got the sage version and it looks exact to the ones we got donated from the ANG, but same deal, the velcro was in the pockets and it's up to you to sew it on. I've seen a few like that where the member sewed them in the wrong spots, including one with the grade on the wrong side above the CAP tape.

[TheSkyHornet]

I purchased my fleece commercially, not a sage but a black from Tru-Spec for the BBDU's, and the velcro came in the pocket. I have a Cadet that got the sage version and it looks exact to the ones we got donated from the ANG, but same deal, the velcro was in the pockets and it's up to you to sew it on. I've seen a few like that where the member sewed them in the wrong spots, including one with the grade on the wrong side above the CAP tape.

It's quite common.

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that someone looks at it and says "It goes on the left" (from the perspective of the viewer); so that's where it gets sewn, on the left (from the perspective of the wearer).

[Spam]

Thanks gentlemen, those are useful, cogent arguments and solid on thread posts!

Sage advice, indeed.

V/r
Spam

[LSThiker]

I've seen fleeces that have insignia velcro sewn over the wrong side, which tells me it's a handmade or it's a style from a possible competition team or general non-military wear (even though it looks similar).

That is the old Army Foliage Fleece.  The original green fleece had the rank insignia on the left.  Then the Army switched it to the right side (around 2008).  Soldiers could continue wearing the jacket until it needed to be DX'd.  CIF continued to issue them out until supplies were exhausted.

[Tokyo Tengu]

I would not want to waste squadron money buying ABU field jackets, ABU Gortexes and foliage green fleeces when we all know that these uniforms will be gone in short order.

The thermal underwear is the best idea until OCP pattern uniforms and outwear is approved.

I would not want to waste squadron money buying ABU field jackets, ABU Gortexes and foliage green fleeces when we all know that these uniforms will be gone in short order.

The thermal underwear is the best idea until OCP pattern uniforms and outwear is approved.

Does anyone have any idea when CAP is going to switch to the OCP pattern? I am a new member and just purchased my ABUs a month ago. I was seriously considering buying either a fleece or a Gortex jacket, but if the uniform switch is happening soon, it'd be a waste of money.

[NIN]

Does anyone have any idea when CAP is going to switch to the OCP pattern? I am a new member and just purchased my ABUs a month ago. I was seriously considering buying either a fleece or a Gortex jacket, but if the uniform switch is happening soon, it'd be a waste of money.

If/when it does happen, you can be reasonably assured that the wearout date for ABUs will likely be 5 years hence from the date of implementation of the new uniform. Like BDUs, your ABUs and associated outerwear won't immediately be rendered verboten, so even if you get a Goretex today, you'll have 5+ years of good wear out of it.

Unless you choose to ship over to the new uniform immediately, in which case: all new for you.

[Tokyo Tengu]

Does anyone have any idea when CAP is going to switch to the OCP pattern? I am a new member and just purchased my ABUs a month ago. I was seriously considering buying either a fleece or a Gortex jacket, but if the uniform switch is happening soon, it'd be a waste of money.

If/when it does happen, you can be reasonably assured that the wearout date for ABUs will likely be 5 years hence from the date of implementation of the new uniform. Like BDUs, your ABUs and associated outerwear won't immediately be rendered verboten, so even if you get a Goretex today, you'll have 5+ years of good wear out of it.

Unless you choose to ship over to the new uniform immediately, in which case: all new for you.

Whew! That's a relief. It's probably a bit late in the season to be buying winter wear, but it's something to consider soon because I think ABUs, especially in my 2XL sizes are going to be increasingly hard to find in the months/years ahead.  Or, I could lose weight. That'd probably be a better plan.  As for shipping over to the OCPs immediately, I can just imagine what the wife would say and I like my black zippered boots very much, thank you!

[NIN]

As for shipping over to the OCPs immediately, I can just imagine what the wife would say and I like my black zippered boots very much, thank you!

Two things: 

1. Black boots are probably here to stay.  Mostly because:
 a) People already have them, one less added expense to a switch;
 b) Boots are generally the largest single cost to any of the basic uniforms. Black boots are available relatively inexpensively;
 c) Black boots are worn with more than just the USAF-style uniform, and can, technically, be worn with blues (although I'd be surprised if that happens often).
 d) The USAF seems OK with black boots in our USAF-style uniforms as an additional layer of "distinctiveness."

2. Re 2XL ABUs: I don't know your specifics, perhaps you're "super tall" and thats why you need bigger ABUs, but I would ask you to take a hard look at CAPR 39-1, Attachment 2, just to be sure you meet the standards for the USAF style uniform.  In my experience, and again I don't know your specifics over the Internet, the vast preponderance of people who claim to need USAF-style 2XL uniforms generally should actually be wearing corporates. YMMV, of course, and some people "hide it well,"  or are very tall and thus need proportionally larger uniforms.

(I was 237 lbs at one point about 11 years ago, and told people "I hid it well." Yeah, I hid it well. From myself...)

[Tokyo Tengu]

(I was 237 lbs at one point about 11 years ago, and told people "I hid it well." Yeah, I hid it well. From myself...)

Point taken. Time to get back on the keto bandwagon. I didn't invest this much money in ABUs to stick them in a closet and go corporate.

[EDIT: Fix0red your quote tags, sir -NIN]

[N6RVT]

If/when it does happen, you can be reasonably assured that the wearout date for ABUs will likely be 5 years hence from the date of implementation of the new uniform. Like BDUs, your ABUs and associated outerwear won't immediately be rendered verboten, so even if you get a Goretex today, you'll have 5+ years of good wear out of it. Unless you choose to ship over to the new uniform immediately, in which case: all new for you.

What I would like to see is the OCP pattern uniform in the BBDU color.  We could have that tomorrow, The USAF would love the idea, existing insignia, accessories and outergarments would work, and it would be closer to USAF than the obsolete ABU we now have.

If Vanguard can make pink ABU's, they can make this.