Good afternoon, new guy here again with another question. I have been reading the Uniform Manual trying to find authorized Winter Uniforms items, and knit hat for wearing over the corporate black fleet. Perhaps they don't exist? It gets cold up here in the Northern US. Any suggestions would be a big help, thank you.
With the corporate uniforms, you wear whatever outerwear/cold weather wear you want. The only specified outerwear is the blue field jacket and black fleece, however, those are not mandatory and any civilian outerwear is fine, you just can't wear CAP insignia or grade on it.
Quote from: Nikos on November 12, 2022, 11:01:59 PMGood afternoon, new guy here again with another question. I have been reading the Uniform Manual trying to find authorized Winter Uniforms items, and knit hat for wearing over the corporate black fleet. Perhaps they don't exist? It gets cold up here in the Northern US. Any suggestions would be a big help, thank you.
Knit hat for wearing with the black fleece. It's the black watch cap See uniform Reg, part 6.2.6
Don't forget the Light Blue Windbreaker and the Blue Flight Jacket, both are authorized with the Corporate Uniform. I have the Blue Flight Jacket, and it keeps me warm for most CAP activities in Chicagoland winters.
I don't own the Windbreaker, and I don't know anyone who does, so I can't speak on its properties.
Here's the whole list from 39-1:
Male Aviator Shirt Uniform
4.2.5.1.10. Outer garments. Appropriate civilian outer garments are authorized as well as the black leather jacket, light blue windbreaker, dark blue windbreaker, blue flight jacket, the USAF-style cardigan sweater and the black fleece.
Female Aviator Shirt Uniform
4.2.6.10. Outer garments. Appropriate civilian outer garments are authorized as well as the black leather jacket, light blue windbreaker, dark blue windbreaker, blue flight jacket, the USAF-style cardigan sweater, and the black fleece.
Corporate Field Uniform
5.2.1.4. Outer Garments. Outer garments for this uniform include the blue field jacket, black fleece or any conservatively colored commercial coat that covers the shirt.
Corporate Working Uniform
5.3.9. Outer Garments. Appropriate civilian outer garments are authorized as well as the black leather jacket, light blue windbreaker, blue flight jacket, and the black fleece.
Corporate Flight Duty Uniform
8.3.7. Outer garments. The black leather jacket, blue flight jacket, light blue windbreaker, dark blue windbreaker, blue field jacket, black fleece, or any appropriate civilian outerwear may be worn with the CFDU.
Here's what I did for deployment to Los Angeles for C-19...CAP Los Angeles.pdf
Essentially a USCG foul weather Gortex parka II. Can obtain through Propper or USCG uniform exchange (for us dual-hatted volunteers).
File it under "any conservatively colored commercial coat that covers the shirt"...
Thoughts?
How warm is it? Do you need a fleece liner? I know a winter in California is different from a winter in greater Chicagoland, but I'd like to get the thoughts of someone who has worn it.
It looks professional and would seem to work with BBDU, Corporates and the Blue Flight Suit.
BTW, I like your version of a "CAP baseball cap". I would have gotten the lettering in white and not yellow/gold, but that's me.
Good questions. The parka is modular so in colder weather you add the fleece liner. I understand what you're saying about the lettering on the hat, but it is the corporate field uniform, and headgear is not required and I like the gold lettering b/c of my USN officer background...so I'll file my headgear choice under "Appropriate civilian headgear"!
Now I'm ready to push the envelope, I have a set of NOAA blue field uniforms (2 pockets instead of four) and rank insignia (smaller in size). Better fit than the products from Propper.
Quote from: sandman on May 09, 2023, 04:21:18 PMGood questions. The parka is modular so in colder weather you add the fleece liner. I understand what you're saying about the lettering on the hat, but it is the corporate field uniform, and headgear is not required and I like the gold lettering b/c of my USN officer background...so I'll file my headgear choice under "Appropriate civilian headgear"!
Now I'm ready to push the envelope, I have a set of NOAA blue field uniforms (2 pockets instead of four) and rank insignia (smaller in size). Better fit than the products from Propper.
Yeah, that hat is a big no-go. It ceased to be a "civilian" hat when you embroidered your grade insignia on it.
The USCG parka is the real deal. I have it with the zip-in liner: its very nice.
The double storm flap is money.
You've convinced me gentlemen; I'm going to go find this parka and a liner.
Quote from: Shuman 14 on May 09, 2023, 05:55:23 PMYou've convinced me gentlemen; I'm going to go find this parka and a liner.
Mine was $160 used on Ebay. Be prepared.
Hi
Quote from: PHall on May 09, 2023, 04:58:10 PMYeah, that hat is a big no-go. It ceased to be a "civilian" hat when you embroidered your grade insignia on it.
I disagree. But you do you.
I concur with Sandman... adding grade insignia to something does not have some magical power to transform the item...
It would be nice to see discussions on how to improve our mission capabilities than to argue about about petty things like this (yes, I see the hypocrisy of my statement as I am joining in).
How about the shining star of CAP: the cadet program! Nearly nothing being discussed on how to improve or expand it.
Quote from: 754837 on May 10, 2023, 06:19:39 PMI concur with Sandman... adding grade insignia to something does not have some magical power to transform the item...
Maybe, maybe not; but adding "US Air Force Aux, Civil Air Patrol" absolutely does transform it and may be a copyright violation. You're not in my CoC, so I really don't care, but I've seen NHQ send cease and desist letter to individuals, units, and activities for doing that sort of thing without proper authorization.
Quote from: jeders on May 10, 2023, 08:03:20 PMMaybe, maybe not; but adding "US Air Force Aux, Civil Air Patrol" absolutely does transform it and may be a copyright violation. You're not in my CoC, so I really don't care, but I've seen NHQ send cease and desist letter to individuals, units, and activities for doing that sort of thing without proper authorization.
Well, there is a simple solution to the problem, NHQ should decide on
ONE design for the extremely open-ended "CAP baseball cap", place picture of that selected design in the next 39-1 supplement and/or update and make that the
sole authorized hat for the corporate service and working uniforms. It's really just that simple. no ambiguity, no barracks lawyers pleading their case, just one hat... wear it, or don't wear it... but here it is.
I'd be happy with wearing the BBDU field cap with the following CAP uniforms:
BBDU
Corporate flight suit
Corporate working uniform
Corporate Service Uniform
Plain, military style, easy to maintain and is already approved for wear. It also keeps the sun out of your eyes, the rain out of your face and traps enough heat to keep your head warm in the winter.
It also already has shiny metal rank on it to make everyone happy.
Quote from: jeders on May 10, 2023, 08:03:20 PMQuote from: 754837 on May 10, 2023, 06:19:39 PMI concur with Sandman... adding grade insignia to something does not have some magical power to transform the item...
Maybe, maybe not; but adding "US Air Force Aux, Civil Air Patrol" absolutely does transform it and may be a copyright violation. You're not in my CoC, so I really don't care, but I've seen NHQ send cease and desist letter to individuals, units, and activities for doing that sort of thing without proper authorization.
I would lean toward the "maybe" camp if I used white-colored thread for lettering and added field grade visor ornamentation (then again, maybe I should add the F&D's so that it's less of a problem for CAPR 39-1, 6.2.8 ). It would be a sad day if NHQ tried to be mean by issuing a C&DL. The hat is not being used for commercial gain (CAPR 900-2, A.3.b) and can be construed as authorized under CAPR 900-2, A.3.d.11.
We could argue back and forth all day about CAPR 39-1, 6.2.8, but I will stick with CAPR 39-1, 5.3.7 using the language of "appropriate civilian headgear" and that every day is an "inclement weather" day for a bald, cancer-causing sunlight exposed pate. Heck, let's file it for authorized use under CAPR 900-2, A.3.f.6 and be done with it. Over the years, I've come to "appreciate" the weirdness of the uniform "nutsies" prevalent on this blog. There are some good points sometimes, but this hat falls within the "spirit of the law" and the tradition of the air services pushing the envelope of uniform regs. So, I'll keep my hat and continue to use it at squadron meetings (others have expressed interest in adopting the format). I'm also cognizant of the fact that the folks at NHQ mean well but really have no idea what they're doing IMHO (really "risk averse" when it comes to stepping up uniform issues...i.e. CAPR 39-1, 11.2.3...doubt that SECAF told them to do that). A C&DL or some strongly worded letter would just be a coffin nail ending over 30 years of CAP service...which is just fine by me, sad, but retirement is okay too.
Quote from: arajca on November 12, 2022, 11:08:37 PMWith the corporate uniforms, you wear whatever outerwear/cold weather wear you want. The only specified outerwear is the blue field jacket and black fleece, however, those are not mandatory and any civilian outerwear is fine, you just can't wear CAP insignia or grade on it.
I'm not finding that language or directive regarding insignia/grade in CAPR 39-1. Can you assist?