CAP Talk

General Discussion => Hysterical History => Topic started by: Cindi on August 21, 2011, 01:19:47 PM

Title: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: Cindi on August 21, 2011, 01:19:47 PM
Civil Air Patrol history: On January 7 through 10, 1971 at the Statler Hilton in Dallas, Texas the first National Cadet Advisory Council met. From left, Cadet Colonel Tony Upton (1950-2010), Pacific Region; Cadet Lt. Col. Larry Willers, Rocky Mountain Region; Cadet Lt. Col. Stephen Graben, Southwest Region; Cadet Lt. Col. Diana Goodyear, Great Lakes Region; Cadet Lt. Col. Donald Maxfield, Southeast Region; Brigadier General Samuel Hallock duPont, Chairman, Civil Air Patrol; Cadet Colonel Thomas Richardson, Middle East Region and Cadet Colonel Harry Mertz, Northeast Region:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yx4VoehrJ7g/TkaeNM6duTI/AAAAAAAAD-s/Ji0mpUcb24s/s400/img069.jpg)
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: ol'fido on August 21, 2011, 02:00:22 PM
Great photo! Is it just me or do the c/Cols of that era look a lot more mature than a similar group photo than you would probably see today. And it ain't just the cadet with the mustache! Keep coming with those pics. :)
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: Cindi on August 21, 2011, 02:07:15 PM
Quote from: ol'fido on August 21, 2011, 02:00:22 PM
Great photo! Is it just me or do the c/Cols of that era look a lot more mature than a similar group photo than you would probably see today. And it ain't just the cadet with the mustache! Keep coming with those pics. :)

I am pleased you like the pick. Unfortunately, the guy with the mustache died last year in a bulldozer or farm tractor accident. Here is a bigger picture:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yx4VoehrJ7g/TkaeNM6duTI/AAAAAAAAD-s/Ji0mpUcb24s/s1600/img069.jpg)
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: ol'fido on August 21, 2011, 02:19:47 PM
Sorry to hear that. I did notice the dates you put on the OP for him. I also note that several of the cadets are wearing wings and very few(or no) ribbons. About the maturity thing.... I thought it was me getting older that made the cadets look so young, but like I said, these cadets look very mature compared to the cadets I usually see at activities.
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: Cindi on August 21, 2011, 02:33:21 PM
Quote from: ol'fido on August 21, 2011, 02:19:47 PM
Sorry to hear that. I did notice the dates you put on the OP for him. I also note that several of the cadets are wearing wings and very few(or no) ribbons. About the maturity thing.... I thought it was me getting older that made the cadets look so young, but like I said, these cadets look very mature compared to the cadets I usually see at activities.

Glad you like the picture. In addition to the first National Cadet Advisory Council, the Advanced Cadet Leadership Symposium was held with about 100 senior cadets and Jack Sorenson, National Commander Richard Ellis and CAP Chairman of the Board, Hal duPont. Here are more pictures from the January 7-10th 1971 Advanced Cadet Leadership Symposium at the Statler Hilton in Dallas, Texas:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4sA3nA4bxgA/Tk_EAKd1GvI/AAAAAAAAEAo/HV6GpwTe57c/s1600/leadership1.jpg)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3ymvrGMbjFs/Tk_ESiAAgFI/AAAAAAAAEAw/3Ok18QpAtu4/s1600/leadership2.jpg)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-z1pmnowpbwM/Tk_EoVPBF8I/AAAAAAAAEA4/Ty47L9J3-kY/s1600/leadership3.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-agt1KCNdHxA/Tk_E2H7g7kI/AAAAAAAAEBA/U9BEKcgZ4J4/s1600/leadership4.jpg)


Title: Higher resolution pictures
Post by: Cindi on August 21, 2011, 02:48:08 PM
The above pictures with a higher resolution are available at http://forums.spaatz.org/viewtopic.php?t=201 (http://forums.spaatz.org/viewtopic.php?t=201)
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: NIN on August 21, 2011, 03:23:50 PM
Love the pic of Seminar 7. The kid from NH is in Combination 3's (a totally underappreciated uniform combo, darn it) and sitting next to Ed Sackley, which, it appears, is the ONLY person from that whole set of photos I recognize.

:)

Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: Cindi on August 21, 2011, 03:40:14 PM
Quote from: NIN on August 21, 2011, 03:23:50 PM
Love the pic of Seminar 7. The kid from NH is in Combination 3's (a totally underappreciated uniform combo, darn it) and sitting next to Ed Sackley, which, it appears, is the ONLY person from that whole set of photos I recognize.

:)

Interesting uniform combination indeed. Here is the picture blown up a little (since u liked it so much!)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-l1THe0862oM/TlEltW0L7AI/AAAAAAAAEBI/nCT-YOGv1_k/s1600/seminar7large.jpg)
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: ol'fido on August 21, 2011, 08:30:50 PM
I wander if the Hartmann girl in Seminar 3 was any relation to Margaret Hartmann who was a fixture for many years as the Admin Officer at most of the SARCAPs and SARDAs we had in Southern Illinois.
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: Cindi on August 21, 2011, 09:33:42 PM
Quote from: ol'fido on August 21, 2011, 08:30:50 PM
I wander if the Hartmann girl in Seminar 3 was any relation to Margaret Hartmann who was a fixture for many years as the Admin Officer at most of the SARCAPs and SARDAs we had in Southern Illinois.

The Hartmann girl in Seminar 3 was Cadet Major Mary Ann Hartmann of Belleville, Illinois. Hope that answered your question.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CwwDQ47HHmQ/TlF5HuXEDvI/AAAAAAAAEBo/cn6dIcPXygk/s1600/seminar3.jpg)
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: ol'fido on August 22, 2011, 02:37:05 PM
That is probably her daughter. I have some photos from BITD on a Facebook page called the "Southern Illinois Auxiliaryman's Association if you want to see some pics of Margaret Hartmann. The old saw WIWAC was that getting water for Maj. Hartmann's big Bunn coffee pot was like a right of passage for the new cadets.
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: ol'fido on August 22, 2011, 02:39:04 PM
Do you know where Klaus is from in that same pic? Also, the previously discussed Ed Sackley?
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: Cindi on August 22, 2011, 04:54:47 PM
Quote from: ol'fido on August 22, 2011, 02:39:04 PM
Do you know where Klaus is from in that same pic? Also, the previously discussed Ed Sackley?

Cadet Captain David Klaus was from Metropolis, Illinois

Michael S. Sackley was from Evanston , Illinois
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: ol'fido on August 23, 2011, 02:37:39 AM
Can I put the pics with the Illinois cadets on my FB page?
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: Cindi on August 23, 2011, 03:20:02 AM
Quote from: ol'fido on August 23, 2011, 02:37:39 AM
Can I put the pics with the Illinois cadets on my FB page?

Please, feel free to use the pictures. You or anyone else.
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: PA Guy on August 23, 2011, 05:30:44 AM
Quote from: ol'fido on August 21, 2011, 02:00:22 PM
Great photo! Is it just me or do the c/Cols of that era look a lot more mature than a similar group photo than you would probably see today. And it ain't just the cadet with the mustache! Keep coming with those pics. :)

That is because the ones I know in the pictures were more mature.  They were 19-20 yrs old and many were living on their own.  They would have been insulted and horrified if they had been treated the way cadets today are treated.  Many of them are wearing wings because they had attended one of the old National Flying Encampments which were much more advanced than the current versions.  I seem to recall they were 3-4 weeks long at various flying schools around the country with classes and flying every day.
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: PA Guy on August 23, 2011, 05:36:19 AM
Quote from: Cindi on August 21, 2011, 02:07:15 PM
Quote from: ol'fido on August 21, 2011, 02:00:22 PM
Great photo! Is it just me or do the c/Cols of that era look a lot more mature than a similar group photo than you would probably see today. And it ain't just the cadet with the mustache! Keep coming with those pics. :)

I am pleased you like the pick. Unfortunately, the guy with the mustache died last year in a bulldozer or farm tractor accident. Here is a bigger picture:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yx4VoehrJ7g/TkaeNM6duTI/AAAAAAAAD-s/Ji0mpUcb24s/s1600/img069.jpg)

Tony Upton was killed in Dec 2010 when a bulldozer he was operating on his ranch near Santa Barbara, CA rolled over.
Title: The Flying Encampments were so long they made their own patches
Post by: Cindi on August 23, 2011, 06:14:10 AM
Quote from: PA Guy on August 23, 2011, 05:30:44 AM
Quote from: ol'fido on August 21, 2011, 02:00:22 PM
Great photo! Is it just me or do the c/Cols of that era look a lot more mature than a similar group photo than you would probably see today. And it ain't just the cadet with the mustache! Keep coming with those pics. :)

That is because the ones I know in the pictures were more mature.  They were 19-20 yrs old and many were living on their own.  They would have been insulted and horrified if they had been treated the way cadets today are treated.  Many of them are wearing wings because they had attended one of the old National Flying Encampments which were much more advanced than the current versions.  I seem to recall they were 3-4 weeks long at various flying schools around the country with classes and flying every day.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-D94HOmKUPig/TkK6llRWGVI/AAAAAAAAD-E/-k1Y-nwNqmw/s400/img067.jpg)

The Cadet Flying Encampment License in 1970 in Stillwater, Oklahama lasted four weeks. Cadets had to have passed the FAA written and solo first, and then after a month of intense ground school and flying you got your license. Pressure was high as no one had failed before. You were not about to be the first. Transportation to and from Stillwater was paid for. The only fee was $99 for a months lodging in the dorms at Oklahoma State University. In each wing two cadets were selected for training.
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: ol'fido on August 23, 2011, 01:53:33 PM
Thanks on the FB thing. Wow! Wish they had something like that now.
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: a2capt on August 23, 2011, 02:30:10 PM
Flight with the instructor was like $16 bucks an hour back then. That $16 bucks isn't equal to the $160 that costs today..  Insurance and AvGas have taken a much higher proportion of it. :)

The closest we get now are the "$1000" flight academies. Still a great deal, all things considered.
Title: April 11, 1950 - December 11, 2010
Post by: Cindi on August 23, 2011, 02:36:01 PM
Quote from: PA Guy on August 23, 2011, 05:36:19 AMTony Upton was killed in Dec 2010 when a bulldozer he was operating on his ranch near Santa Barbara, CA rolled over.

(http://image2.findagrave.com/photos/2011/223/74832225_131320249719.jpg)

Antony Michael Upton (http://www.virtual-memorials.com/main.php?action=view&mem_id=21074) was born in Alaska, April 11, 1950.  He died in a tragic accident on December 11, 2010, while clearing land on his family property near his beloved Santa Barbara, California.  He valued family more than anything else in life and leaves behind his wife, Kathy and sons Cody and Cash.
A graduate of California State University, Northridge, Tony was a well known and highly regarded businessman in the Santa Barbara area, working in banking, construction, finance and property development.  He was a veteran of the United States Marine Corps.
In 1964, Tony joined the Civil Air Patrol as a cadet and earned his pilot's license.  As the 99th cadet to earn the prestigious "General Carl A. Spaatz Award," he was promoted to cadet colonel in 1969.  He participated in the 1970 International Air Cadet Exchange, visiting Australia.
Remaining in CAP after his cadet days, he became a commissioned officer, rising to the grade of Lieutenant Colonel.  During his CAP career, he served as Commander of Santa Barbara Composite Squadron 131 and Central Coast Group 11.  He also served in a number of staff assignments at the Squadron, Group and Wing levels, including Director of Cadet Programs for California Wing.  As a rated Command Pilot with many hundreds of flying hours, he served as both a Cadet Orientation pilot and as an active Air Search and Rescue pilot.  As an escort officer, he again participated in the International Air Cadet Exchange, visiting Sweden.
Both of Tony's sons were cadets and were a source of great pride to him and to his wife, Kathy, also a CAP officer.  Cody earned the Spaatz Award while Cash served as Commander of California Wing's Cadet Training Group.
In his nearly five decades of  CAP service, Tony Upton touched the lives of many generations of cadets and will continue to do so through the legacy he leaves in the dozens of Cadet Programs leaders and unit commanders that he mentored.

-----

The Santa Barbara County Sheriff confirms the identity of a man killed in a bulldozer accident as that of Anthony Upton.
Deputies say the deadly accident happened about 4 p.m. Saturday on the San Marcos Pass. Santa Barbara County search and rescue had to use a hoist system to pull the 60-year-old Upton from the wreckage.
Nearby neighbors describe the terrain as very rough. Authorities are still trying to investigate exactly what happened.

-kyet.com

Tony Upton Slide Show (http://www.virtual-memorials.com/main.php?action=slideshow2&mem_id=21074)
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: Eclipse on August 23, 2011, 02:36:22 PM
So...

...beyond posing for photos, did this CAC actually do anything?
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: Cindi on August 23, 2011, 02:53:23 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 23, 2011, 02:36:22 PM
So...

...beyond posing for photos, did this CAC actually do anything?

I have no record of the CAC deliberations. However they did meet as Seminar #6 with C/COL Antony Upton as the Seminar Leader. Their topic was the "Cadet Program With Relation to the Computer." Their conclusions:

"In conclusion, the seminar feels that the most important recommendation to National Headquarters would be the use of a full-time computer program manager on their staff.  National Headquarters, at the present, is using a valuable computer for a labeling machine and a report generator, rather than an effective managerial tool.  The use of an expert in the field of computer utilization could easily accomplish the above stated applications. "

Back then membership was declining. Board Chairman Hal duPont said he did not know why. But it was the Viet Nam war era. The military was not as popular as it was today.
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: Eclipse on August 23, 2011, 03:01:56 PM
At the user level that's about all computers did back then - run labels and generate reports, actually, that's pretty much all they have ever done or do.
They just got fancier and smaller.

We need to add a prohibition for CAC's - no discussions of recruiting, retention, or planning activities.  Interesting the precedent was set from nearly day 1.
Title: Seminar 6 - National asks for computer advice
Post by: Cindi on August 23, 2011, 03:18:42 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 23, 2011, 03:01:56 PM
At the user level that's about all computers did back then - run labels and generate reports, actually, that's pretty much all they have ever done or do.
They just got fancier and smaller.

We need to add a prohibition for CAC's - no discussions of recruiting, retention, or planning activities.  Interesting the precedent was set from nearly day 1.

Seminar 6 was the NCAC and alternates attacking the computer problem.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-oqer8kvE0c4/TlPBL35bsRI/AAAAAAAAEBw/4hdtRnKOsVs/s1600/computerexperts.jpg)

Comments For the Leadership Symposium, Dallas, Texas
7 - 10 January 1971
By Lt Colonel Donald R. Hayes, Director:

For the first time in the history of CAPR 50-8, which establishes the National Cadet Advisory Council, we are finally able to convene one.  This first Annual Leadership Symposium, however, encompasses a greater spectrum than just the National Cadet Advisory Council but of prime importance is that, in fact, we have with us this day the chairman from all but one of the region cadet advisory councils, and before this symposium has closed we will have a chairman of the "National Cadet Advisory Council." We feel that this is a major advancement in furthering the aims of all cadets.

NER    Harry Mertz
MER    Tom Richardson
SER    Don Maxfield
PACR  Tony Upton
SWR   Stephen Graber
NCR   -----
GLR    Diana Goodyear
RMR    Greg Perry
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: a2capt on August 23, 2011, 03:48:24 PM
"Cadet *Advisory* Council", not *activity* council, which many of them seem to be doing, with blessings from their respective wing commands.
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: ol'fido on August 23, 2011, 08:41:58 PM
Quote from: a2capt on August 23, 2011, 02:30:10 PM
Flight with the instructor was like $16 bucks an hour back then. That $16 bucks isn't equal to the $160 that costs today..  Insurance and AvGas have taken a much higher proportion of it. :)

The closest we get now are the "$1000" flight academies. Still a great deal, all things considered.
Yeah, I believe that when I went to the ILWG Flight Encampment in 1981 that the cost was $375 and  that may be high but that is what I remember.
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: ol'fido on August 23, 2011, 10:34:13 PM
Cindi-I posted those pics on my CAP history FB page and got a reply within an hour from LtCol.(Ret)Larry Sitton. He used to be the commander at the 286th at Alton and was ILWG historian before retiring from CAP. He confirmed that Mary Ann was Margaret's daughter.
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: ColonelJack on August 23, 2011, 11:52:52 PM
Quote from: Cindi on August 21, 2011, 01:19:47 PM
Civil Air Patrol history: On January 7 through 10, 1971 at the Statler Hilton in Dallas, Texas the first National Cadet Advisory Council met. From left, Cadet Colonel Tony Upton (1950-2010), Pacific Region; Cadet Lt. Col. Larry Willers, Rocky Mountain Region; Cadet Lt. Col. Stephen Graben, Southwest Region; Cadet Lt. Col. Diana Goodyear, Great Lakes Region; Cadet Lt. Col. Donald Maxfield, Southeast Region; Brigadier General Samuel Hallock duPont, Chairman, Civil Air Patrol; Cadet Colonel Thomas Richardson, Middle East Region and Cadet Colonel Harry Mertz, Northeast Region:

Not only do the cadet colonels look more mature than they do nowadays ... they actually look more mature than General duPont!  He looks like a teenager or something!

Jack
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: BillB on August 24, 2011, 01:51:49 AM
Hal duPont always looked young. About 6 years ago there was a Florida Wing Cadet Reunion (cadets from 40's to 70's) and general duPont attended. Still ooked younger than any of the former cadets.
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: Майор Хаткевич on August 24, 2011, 12:20:26 PM
Quote from: ColonelJack on August 23, 2011, 11:52:52 PM
Quote from: Cindi on August 21, 2011, 01:19:47 PM
Civil Air Patrol history: On January 7 through 10, 1971 at the Statler Hilton in Dallas, Texas the first National Cadet Advisory Council met. From left, Cadet Colonel Tony Upton (1950-2010), Pacific Region; Cadet Lt. Col. Larry Willers, Rocky Mountain Region; Cadet Lt. Col. Stephen Graben, Southwest Region; Cadet Lt. Col. Diana Goodyear, Great Lakes Region; Cadet Lt. Col. Donald Maxfield, Southeast Region; Brigadier General Samuel Hallock duPont, Chairman, Civil Air Patrol; Cadet Colonel Thomas Richardson, Middle East Region and Cadet Colonel Harry Mertz, Northeast Region:

Not only do the cadet colonels look more mature than they do nowadays ... they actually look more mature than General duPont!  He looks like a teenager or something!

Jack

A few thoughts on the cadets. Were most of them in the 18+ age? These days, most seem to be 16-18.

Second thought: based on the hair styles, I can tell that picture is old. To me old hairstyles, on young people right away makes them look like disco dancing 30 year olds. Just my perspective as someone born at the start of the techno/dance decade.
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: ol'fido on August 24, 2011, 02:23:14 PM
It may be that they were a little older and the hair styles were different, but the cadets I know these days, even the ones that age out, seem more immature. This applies to looks as well as conduct. It may be that as I have grown older the cadets would naturally seem this way, but I can't help think that the cadets from the 60's and 70's would have eaten the cadets of today alive in terms of maturity and ability.

Like I said, it may just be me getting older and more critical. However, I think a lot of it has to do with the way cadets were viewed at that time. There was no CPP in those days. Older cadets who were cadet captains and above were basically treated as senior members in training. If a cadet showed himself to be mature, responsible, and capable, he was treated just like a senior member to the extent that the regs allowed and sometimes beyond what the regs allowed. I think that because of CPP many seniors tend to lump cadets together as just "cadets" and don't give the older ones a lot of room to maneuver. Of course, we can't drop CPP.

For example, as a c/1stLt, I ran the flight line at half a dozen missions. When I say I ran the flight line, I mean I was in charge of the flight line. Normally, the senior flight line officer was whatever aircrew member wasn't flying at the time. I might have had two or three different ones a day. I supervised and trained the marshallers, arranged for refueling, refueled many if there was no truck, put oil in, etc. That stuff would NEVER fly these days.
Title: Its all fueled up Major!
Post by: Cindi on August 24, 2011, 06:29:28 PM
Quote from: ol'fido on August 24, 2011, 02:23:14 PM
For example, as a c/1stLt, I ran the flight line at half a dozen missions. When I say I ran the flight line, I mean I was in charge of the flight line. Normally, the senior flight line officer was whatever aircrew member wasn't flying at the time. I might have had two or three different ones a day. I supervised and trained the marshallers, arranged for refueling, refueled many if there was no truck, put oil in, etc. That stuff would NEVER fly these days.

That was not right! You should of been at least a cadet captain to be in charge of flight line operations.  ;)
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: ol'fido on August 24, 2011, 06:34:24 PM
By the time I made c/Capt, I was into Ground Team and was pretty well burned out on FL. :P Mostly stayed in GT through c/LtCol and on over to the 'dark side' as a senior member. ;D
Title: Stay a cadet - enjoy the activities
Post by: Cindi on August 24, 2011, 06:48:26 PM
Quote from: ol'fido on August 24, 2011, 06:34:24 PM
By the time I made c/Capt, I was into Ground Team and was pretty well burned out on FL. :P Mostly stayed in GT through c/LtCol and on over to the 'dark side' as a senior member. ;D

Back then, there were a lot of benefits for cadets to stay in till they were 21. One of those were the month long flying encampments. The other was the opening up of more countries into the International Air Cadet Exchange Program. In 1969 I was told I could participate if I wanted to. I remember reading about the terrible riots in a place called Malaysia. Naturally when I got my travel orders and tickets, end destination was Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. I called them up and they said it was OK, "they were not killing Americans." Next stop, KL.

I got a solo scholarship but was an extremely slow learner. I was learning on a taildragger from the legendary Wally Olson but was having real problems after like 10 hours of instruction. Then this wing commander calls me and tells me one of the persons selected to get their pilots license had not passed her written. Since I had passed the written the colonel told me I had two days to solo and be on a plane to Oklahoma to get my pilots license. They could not afford to let the slot go empty.  I did a lot of flying in 2 days, lol.
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: ol'fido on August 24, 2011, 09:28:38 PM
Yeah, I went to the ILWG Flight Encampment in 1981 when it was under the command of Mel "Kaiser" Kristman who went on to be the Wing CC. Edward "Babe" Hillyard was the chief glider IP. Babe flew assault gliders in Europe in WWII. It was funny in that they made the glider students wear seat pack parachutes. I sure wondered if they were quick opening at the heights the gliders usually flew. One other thing of note was that after evening formation, the cadets that wanted to could walk uptown to nearby restaurants to eat supper unless you had to fly that evening. No way they do that now.
Title: Bangkok on IACE, Riots in Kuala Lumpur
Post by: Cindi on August 24, 2011, 10:00:09 PM
Quote from: ol'fido on August 24, 2011, 09:28:38 PM
No way they do that now.

Malaysia and Indonesia were brand new to the International Air Cadet Exchange (IACE) in 1969, I got an airline ticket to SFO and had to take a bus to Travis. But the ticket did not account for rush hour traffic and I missed my place on a MAC aircraft from Travis. The escort called the IACE coordinator in Alabama. I remember he was watching Bonanza. Anyone I got a flight to Bangkok unescorted the next day, and was there two days on my own. After my flight to Kuala Lumpur and was on my own in troubled times in Malaysia (a month after their now historic race riots where hundreds were killed) before I caught up with the air attache and my group. I doubt cadets today would be sent off traveling thru a troubled country or part of the world. I think they are missing out.
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: Major Lord on August 24, 2011, 11:27:33 PM
Well, I guess we won't be running any IACE in Dirkadirkistan.....

Major Lord
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: ol'fido on August 25, 2011, 01:03:17 AM
Buddy of mine here got to go to Egypt one year. It was such a horrible trip( they got put up one night in a just built prison that was still waiting to get its first inmates), that they were given slots for the next year as well. He went to Japan the second time and had a great visit. I guess they were some of the few cadets that could wear an attachment on their IACE ribbon.
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: Mitchell 1969 on October 02, 2011, 08:37:33 PM
Quote from: ol'fido on August 21, 2011, 02:19:47 PM
Sorry to hear that. I did notice the dates you put on the OP for him. I also note that several of the cadets are wearing wings and very few(or no) ribbons. About the maturity thing.... I thought it was me getting older that made the cadets look so young, but like I said, these cadets look very mature compared to the cadets I usually see at activities.

The "very few ribbons" were due to a short-lived change in the regs that mandated dropping Phase II achievement ribbons once the Mitchell was earned.

The proliferation of wings was due to availability of CFEL (Cadet Flying Encampment, License) and this crowd being likely attendees. (All pilot wings, as cadets could not earn Observer wings.)

Tony Upton, however, (left, with mustache) earned his wings without going to CFEL.

I remember the average Cadet Captain of that era to be high school senior or higher. Most field grade cadets were university level.
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: Mitchell 1969 on October 02, 2011, 08:41:04 PM
Quote from: Cindi on August 21, 2011, 02:33:21 PM
Quote from: ol'fido on August 21, 2011, 02:19:47 PM
Sorry to hear that. I did notice the dates you put on the OP for him. I also note that several of the cadets are wearing wings and very few(or no) ribbons. About the maturity thing.... I thought it was me getting older that made the cadets look so young, but like I said, these cadets look very mature compared to the cadets I usually see at activities.

Glad you like the picture. In addition to the first National Cadet Advisory Council, the Advanced Cadet Leadership Symposium was held with about 100 senior cadets and Jack Sorenson, National Commander Richard Ellis and CAP Chairman of the Board, Hal duPont. Here are more pictures from the January 7-10th 1971 Advanced Cadet Leadership Symposium at the Statler Hilton in Dallas, Texas:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4sA3nA4bxgA/Tk_EAKd1GvI/AAAAAAAAEAo/HV6GpwTe57c/s1600/leadership1.jpg)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3ymvrGMbjFs/Tk_ESiAAgFI/AAAAAAAAEAw/3Ok18QpAtu4/s1600/leadership2.jpg)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-z1pmnowpbwM/Tk_EoVPBF8I/AAAAAAAAEA4/Ty47L9J3-kY/s1600/leadership3.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-agt1KCNdHxA/Tk_E2H7g7kI/AAAAAAAAEBA/U9BEKcgZ4J4/s1600/leadership4.jpg)

The captions on groups 1 and 2 have been switched.
Title: Re: The Flying Encampments were so long they made their own patches
Post by: Mitchell 1969 on October 02, 2011, 08:58:49 PM
Quote from: Cindi on August 23, 2011, 06:14:10 AM
Quote from: PA Guy on August 23, 2011, 05:30:44 AM
Quote from: ol'fido on August 21, 2011, 02:00:22 PM
Great photo! Is it just me or do the c/Cols of that era look a lot more mature than a similar group photo than you would probably see today. And it ain't just the cadet with the mustache! Keep coming with those pics. :)

That is because the ones I know in the pictures were more mature.  They were 19-20 yrs old and many were living on their own.  They would have been insulted and horrified if they had been treated the way cadets today are treated.  Many of them are wearing wings because they had attended one of the old National Flying Encampments which were much more advanced than the current versions.  I seem to recall they were 3-4 weeks long at various flying schools around the country with classes and flying every day.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-D94HOmKUPig/TkK6llRWGVI/AAAAAAAAD-E/-k1Y-nwNqmw/s400/img067.jpg)

The Cadet Flying Encampment License in 1970 in Stillwater, Oklahama lasted four weeks. Cadets had to have passed the FAA written and solo first, and then after a month of intense ground school and flying you got your license. Pressure was high as no one had failed before. You were not about to be the first. Transportation to and from Stillwater was paid for. The only fee was $99 for a months lodging in the dorms at Oklahoma State University. In each wing two cadets were selected for training.

Also, attendees had to pass a Class II medical. The idea was that it could lead to a career.

In 1970, there were 4 CFEL sessions, each with about 24-25 cadets. Two sessions were at Stillwater (OSU) and two at Norman, OK (University of Oklahoma).  I attended the one for which that patch was designed.

We had some local USAFR staff members and some CAP officers from various wings. Good thing that the locals were there. The C-150 in that patch, copied from a brochure, was originally red. It was hurriedly changed to orange when we were told by the local USAFR officers that it might cause a riot if we wore it - OSU's color is orange, Norman's was red.

My patch is on loan to Ace Browning. I have seen scans of it before and even discovered that some guy in the Phillipines has made copies (?!).
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: Mitchell 1969 on October 02, 2011, 09:21:11 PM
Geez, do I feel old!  I wasn't at this ACLS, but I have met 24 of the people in the pictures.

Six of them (Willers, Lashlee, Busig, Borge, Peterson, Vito) were with me at CFEL. That's 25% of our class.

Another four (Upton, Denesik, Westerman, Glaubach) were from CA (as was Ringlee, but I never met him and Lashlee, already counted from CFEL.

The rest were from various places, including the second ACLS, same location, held in late 1972.
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: Cindi on October 02, 2011, 10:03:44 PM
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on October 02, 2011, 09:21:11 PM
Geez, do I feel old!  I wasn't at this ACLS, but I have met 24 of the people in the pictures.

Six of them (Willers, Lashlee, Busig, Borge, Peterson, Vito) were with me at CFEL. That's 25% of our class.

Another four (Upton, Denesik, Westerman, Glaubach) were from CA (as was Ringlee, but I never met him and Lashlee, already counted from CFEL.

The rest were from various places, including the second ACLS, same location, held in late 1972.

Somehow I have this picture of cadet Lashlee trying on a spacesuit in my mind. Right off the bat they relaxed the discipline at our CFEL in Stillwater, it was tough enough with a month of flying. I remember getting lost a couple of times and almost landing at McConnell AFB instead of Witchita Municipal. Those big gray planes are a dead give away this is not the local airport. They sure gave us plenty of certificates there at Stillwater, we all have had to live with the fact of being Honorary Okies all these years. Has it been that long ago?
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: Mitchell 1969 on October 03, 2011, 12:39:50 AM
Quote from: Cindi on October 02, 2011, 10:03:44 PM
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on October 02, 2011, 09:21:11 PM
Geez, do I feel old!  I wasn't at this ACLS, but I have met 24 of the people in the pictures.

Six of them (Willers, Lashlee, Busig, Borge, Peterson, Vito) were with me at CFEL. That's 25% of our class.

Another four (Upton, Denesik, Westerman, Glaubach) were from CA (as was Ringlee, but I never met him and Lashlee, already counted from CFEL.

The rest were from various places, including the second ACLS, same location, held in late 1972.

Somehow I have this picture of cadet Lashlee trying on a spacesuit in my mind. Right off the bat they relaxed the discipline at our CFEL in Stillwater, it was tough enough with a month of flying. I remember getting lost a couple of times and almost landing at McConnell AFB instead of Witchita Municipal. Those big gray planes are a dead give away this is not the local airport. They sure gave us plenty of certificates there at Stillwater, we all have had to live with the fact of being Honorary Okies all these years. Has it been that long ago?

I think I actually have a copy of a photo of Nora Lashlee trying on the spacesuit. And one of me wearing it, as well. (To duplicate that in my case, now, will require a bigger spacesuit).

And, yes, proud to be an honorary Okie myself.

Ok, I'm stumped. I dont remember any "Cindi" there.
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: Cindi on October 03, 2011, 01:29:25 AM
I am trying to remember Mitchell...hmm does not ring a bell...lol...cindi is just a nick and an unfortunate choice of one at that.

Below is a  picture of the accommodations at the 1970 CFEL in Stillwater, the flying was free, the trip there and back was free...our cost, $99 for room and meals for a month on the campus of Oklahoma State University:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ztgXUf4DNc4/TokOofDvb5I/AAAAAAAAEH4/IxAwLKC7F2w/s400/img080.jpg)
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: Mitchell 1969 on October 03, 2011, 01:39:30 AM
Quote from: Cindi on October 03, 2011, 01:29:25 AM
I am trying to remember Mitchell...hmm does not ring a bell...lol...cindi is just a nick and an unfortunate choice of one at that.

Below is a  picture of the accommodations at the 1970 CFEL in Stillwater, the flying was free, the trip there and back was free...our cost, $99 for room and meals for a month on the campus of Oklahoma State University:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ztgXUf4DNc4/TokOofDvb5I/AAAAAAAAEH4/IxAwLKC7F2w/s400/img080.jpg)

That's Willham Hall. I think males were in Willham South, females in Willham North.

What wingpatch were you wearing then?
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: Cindi on October 03, 2011, 01:49:30 AM
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on October 03, 2011, 01:39:30 AM
Quote from: Cindi on October 03, 2011, 01:29:25 AM
I am trying to remember Mitchell...hmm does not ring a bell...lol...cindi is just a nick and an unfortunate choice of one at that.

Below is a  picture of the accommodations at the 1970 CFEL in Stillwater, the flying was free, the trip there and back was free...our cost, $99 for room and meals for a month on the campus of Oklahoma State University:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ztgXUf4DNc4/TokOofDvb5I/AAAAAAAAEH4/IxAwLKC7F2w/s400/img080.jpg)

That's Willham Hall. I think males were in Willham South, females in Willham North.

What wingpatch were you wearing then?

I only wore one wing patch, the same one that Neal White had. I remember Neal and I flying in slow formation talking on multicom over the flats of Oklahoma. CFEL was a lot of work, but it was a lot of fun. Did you go on the Cessna tour? Your memory is so good. I just have passing recollections.
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: Cindi on October 03, 2011, 02:17:27 AM
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on October 03, 2011, 01:39:30 AM
Quote from: Cindi on October 03, 2011, 01:29:25 AM
I am trying to remember Mitchell...hmm does not ring a bell...lol...cindi is just a nick and an unfortunate choice of one at that.

Below is a  picture of the accommodations at the 1970 CFEL in Stillwater, the flying was free, the trip there and back was free...our cost, $99 for room and meals for a month on the campus of Oklahoma State University:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ztgXUf4DNc4/TokOofDvb5I/AAAAAAAAEH4/IxAwLKC7F2w/s400/img080.jpg)

That's Willham Hall. I think males were in Willham South, females in Willham North.


You are right." Willham Hall - A twelve story coeducational residence hall complex, the most recent addition to modern university residence at Oklahoma State University, was completed in August of 1968 at a cost of 7.4 million. In the 1,553 resident capacity, high rise living areas, rooms with year 'round temperature control face the perimeter of the buildings, each with a large window. The inner core of design features carpeted halls and study lounges, elevators, and bath facilities on each floor. Residents have enclosed access to the centrally located dining and lounge area featuring such conveniences as carpeting, color television, postal service, snack bar, grill, cafeteria, and four dining areas." FROM A 1970 POSTCARD

Mitchell 1969:

Post your astronaut suit pictures. I remember i was in one shot helping Nora I think, but it looks like I was groping...I was really helping with a strap... great to see any pictures you have!
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: Mitchell 1969 on October 03, 2011, 02:27:55 AM
 I can hear it like it was yesterday...

"HOUSEKEEPER!"

I know who you are now. Will have to search for the photos.
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: Cindi on October 03, 2011, 02:47:13 AM
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on October 03, 2011, 02:27:55 AM
I can hear it like it was yesterday...

"HOUSEKEEPER!"

I know who you are now. Will have to search for the photos.

LOL.  It was a stressful time. We got a lot of flying in and ground school in a month! Sorry to see the Cadet Flying Encampment License was discontinued.  Look forward to any photos you have of this era. Thanks!
Title: Re: The First National Cadet Advisory Council - 1970
Post by: ol'fido on October 03, 2011, 09:30:57 PM
Me too.