Military badges on CAP uniforms?

[Pylon]

I am a 22 year USAF veteran and I don't wear my USAF blingage on my CAP uniforms.....there is just too much.

There's another side road to this as well - members who wear only their military ribbons, which is just as wrong, or worse, than not being allowed to wear them on the corporates.

Some tell me they just don't feel like taking the time and already had the rack put together, some say they can't figure out the "complicated order", and my favorites "These are the only 'real' ones, so that's all I'm going to wear." (Well thank you very much, your holiness...)

The ability to wear some decorations from prior or other service is a nice to have, but if your rack doesn't have anything CAP on it, that defeats the whole purpose, because prior service ribbons don't mean a heck of a lot in a CAP context.  They don't tell me anything about what you can do or have done in CAP, which as a commander, is my primary reason for reading your rack to start with.

How is wearing only military decorations any different than people like me who never wear any ribbons, CAP or otherwise, unless we have to (i/e: when service dress is expected)?   

[lordmonar]

HEY.....you can wear your earned military decorations and awards on the CSU.  However there are only three days when it is allowed by Army/Navy/Air Force policy.  Those would be three national holidays.......can anyone name them?

So to answer the question, yes you can wear the awards, but only on certain days.  So is there really a point to wearing them??

I understand the sacrifices made by members of the Uniformed Services, I too have made sacrifices and been awarded decorations.  However, CAP is not a Uniformed Service.  We must follow strict guidelines and US Code regarding civilian wearing of decorations, on a civilian suit.  PERIOD.

It sucks, yes, but until it changes, follow the rules.  It will change, I have no doubt, but lets not get too emotional in here over it.

But CAP regulations say you can't.   So it may be legal by USC but not by CAP.

[Eclipse]

How is wearing only military decorations any different than people like me who never wear any ribbons, CAP or otherwise, unless we have to (i/e: when service dress is expected)?

Not wearing any says you're either not impressed or can't be bothered.  As has been pointed out, its a USAF tradition for officers not to wear their ribbons on their blue shirts, so, whatever.

Wearing only military ribbons means (to me) that you want everyone to know you were in the military, but can't be bothered to respect the service you're currently in.  You've taken the time to show off your jelly beans, but not the jelly beans that matter where you are standing.

Given the choice I'd prefer they either be worn correctly (i.e. integrated into a proper combined rack), or not worn at all.

Which has nothing to do with respect or appreciation for prior service, so let's not go there.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Ribbons can be a PITA, but I wear them all.  Especially after my mess kit got peed in by the NLO. 

[Spike]

The ability to wear some decorations from prior or other service is a nice to have, but if your rack doesn't have anything CAP on it, that defeats the whole purpose, because prior service ribbons don't mean a heck of a lot in a CAP context.  They don't tell me anything about what you can do or have done in CAP, which as a commander, is my primary reason for reading your rack to start with.

Really........what about those members that do not wear ribbons at all?  So you base you decisions on who is a great CAP member by number of ribbons??  Or do you base it on how many Commendations they have?  Do you get happy when you see a lifesaving ribbon??

What ribbons should I be wearing to impress you?

I could be the most awesome person in CAP, but according to you, I mean nothing in CAP if I don't have a CAP Ribbon Rack that is impressive. 

Not wearing any says you're either not impressed or can't be bothered.  As has been pointed out, its a USAF tradition for officers not to wear their ribbons on their blue shirts, so, whatever.

Wearing only military ribbons means (to me) that you want everyone to know you were in the military, but can't be bothered to respect the service you're currently in.  You've taken the time to show off your jelly beans, but not the jelly beans that matter where you are standing.

Given the choice I'd prefer they either be worn correctly (i.e. integrated into a proper combined rack), or not worn at all.

That is a lot to take in.  First, by not wearing ribbons we just became "not impressed".  Impressed in what??  Or we "can't be bothered"........bothered by who?? 

Wearing military ribbons with or without CAP ribbons is a right and privilege granted to a person by the United States Government and the Air Force/ CAP.  They earned that right through service.  To say "just wear CAP ribbons" is wrong.  I know 3 Captains, and 2 Lt's in CAP that ONLY HAD military ribbons to wear, because they joined without having been in CAP before!  After 6 months they got their first CAP ribbon.  So to you, they should not wear their military ribbons?

This is one of the reasons why I love the POLO.  I don't have to deal with people looking at my achievements, and judging me based on bling.  All I have to worry about is doing my job in CAP.   

[Eclipse]

I could be the most awesome person in CAP, but according to you, I mean nothing in CAP if I don't have a CAP Ribbon Rack that is impressive.

That's not even remotely what I said...   

[Spike]

I could be the most awesome person in CAP, but according to you, I mean nothing in CAP if I don't have a CAP Ribbon Rack that is impressive.

That's not even remotely what I said...   

Ummm......you said.....

They don't tell me anything about what you can do or have done in CAP, which as a commander, is my primary reason for reading your rack to start with.

Which equates to worth.  "Can do"= WORTH.  "Have done"= WORTH

You said it, I just replied to it. 

[heliodoc]

You know I don't even wear my ribbons.

Being a former Mitchell and Earhart cadet in the late 70's and early 80's I wore 'em for awhile the only thing I really ever wore was a PJOC patch from 1979.......The only two things other than a solo encampment were USAFA Survival School and PJOC.  Those were the things I was after.  I then later went into the US Army, where you needed to put em for inspection.

Second time around for CAP........so I choose to NOT wear the confetti.  Does that bother anyone that I know?  NO.  Sure must bother some here.

I accomplished a lot in the last 5 yrs in CAP and I'll have to say...I got too much going on now prepping for MP checkrides and a transition to another aircraft.  So yes, in a sense I can't be bothered and the folks I hang with who are in CAP know what I have done in my CAP jacket and how I have helped them get a training ground established with the ARNG in my locale....  Is there a CAP ribbon for moving and shaking with the facility managers and getting cadets on task for their SQTR's??   Probably not....

So what??

I generally am not impressed with confetti strung up all the way to the shoulder.  It s about those individuals who "gots" all that confetti is going to operate with cadets and seniors..

CAP confetti?  Colorful!   Generally, not useful for other than clutter

[Eclipse]

I could be the most awesome person in CAP, but according to you, I mean nothing in CAP if I don't have a CAP Ribbon Rack that is impressive.

That's not even remotely what I said...   

Ummm......you said.....

They don't tell me anything about what you can do or have done in CAP, which as a commander, is my primary reason for reading your rack to start with.

Which equates to worth.  "Can do"= WORTH.  "Have done"= WORTH

You said it, I just replied to it.

Please don't type words for me, I'm fully capable of saying exactly what I mean, and I already have.
The fact that you choose to interpret what I said as above, speaks volumes...

[Spike]

^ Those are acceptable assumptions by most intelligent people.  You typed it, don't make it like I am the person in the wrong here.

You said as Commander you look at the rack first.  Why??  So you can make assumptions about a person before even getting to know them.  That is a bad way to operate.  You know it, I know it and everyone else knows it.

I would never judge you based on what you may or may not be wearing. 

[Eclipse]

^ Those are acceptable assumptions by most intelligent people.  You typed it, don't make it like I am the person in the wrong here.

You said as Commander you look at the rack first.  Why??  So you can make assumptions about a person before even getting to know them.  That is a bad way to operate.  You know it, I know it and everyone else knows it.

I would never judge you based on what you may or may not be wearing.

Spike, just stop please, you're just making stuff up.

What I said, was that the only reason I look at a CAP rack is to see what you've done or can do in CAP.
If you only wear military badges, it tells me nothing about your CAP history, so its irrelevant in our context.

Now please knock off trying to make an issue where there isn't any.

[JohnKachenmeister]

A uniform is a symbolic resume.

I can tell what a person has done and is qualified to do, his position in the organization with regard to rank, and his significant acomplishments.

There is nothing wrong with checking out and making assessments based on awards/badges/decorations.

The purpose of uniform insignia was originally exactly that... to show what a person is capable of doing and what he has done in the past.  When things get fluid on a battlefield, and a new commander steps up in the heat of battle, there is not time to submit to him a written resume of your background.

And, most commanders found it useful to know if they were giving orders to the bugler or to the chaplain.

[Spike]

^ On a battlefield, insignia of rank is different than ribbons.  Apples and Oranges.

[Short Field]

I do wear my USAF medals with my CAP medals on my mess dress though. 

  When I saw Lordmonar wearing his CAP Mess Dress, he looked like a Central American Dictator!    

[lordmonar]

I do wear my USAF medals with my CAP medals on my mess dress though. 

  When I saw Lordmonar wearing his CAP Mess Dress, he looked like a Central American Dictator!    

That would be El Jeffe to you! 

[Cecil DP]

I do wear my USAF medals with my CAP medals on my mess dress though. 

  When I saw Lordmonar wearing his CAP Mess Dress, he looked like a Central American Dictator!    

That would be El Jeffe to you! 

Must be rich, those things cost a fortune

[JohnKachenmeister]

^ On a battlefield, insignia of rank is different than ribbons.  Apples and Oranges.

Not originally.

[Hawk200]

That would be El Jeffe to you! 

If didn't know better, I'd say someone's been playing Mafia Wars.

You know they can't see you, John? Right? 

[Prospector]

Wow, again I take a few days off and the discussion grows leaps and bounds  :clap:

Of course some very good replies and some not so good...shall I say...baiting..going on. 

There are a few on this thread that know what the crux of the whole issue is here - here is what the discussion is NOT about:

1. This is not a discussion about whether or not prior military service is to be respected or not. It is a given that it should and is in CAP. If you don't respect prior service then please leave CAP.

2. This is not about whether uniform A, B, or C is the "best". It is about the meaning of UNIFORM and UNIFORMITY. Having multiple dress or other types of uniforms IS NOT UNIFORM. As earlier stated, the wearing of a uniform properly goes a long way in promoting professionalism. Wearing lots of different uniforms (even if worn properly individually) does not present uniformity or a cohesive organizational image.

3. This is not a discussion of Cadets versus Seniors. We are all CAP and each member should be afforded proper respect for who they are and what they are doing in CAP.

4. This is not about which regs, DoD, Army, Navy, or whatever is best for CAP members. CAP regs are for CAP members. If CAP regs are off base, then it should be brought to CAP National and let them do the research with CAP-USAF and modify the regs accordingly.

Whether you like it or not, CAP is a paramilitary uniformed service - albeit we are a volunteer civilian one and not regular military or civil-service.

My only complaint is that there are too many "if you want to" holes in the current regs, and I hafve to agree that it is very odd and disingenuous to prior military service members for them to not be able to wear the same awards and decs on the CSU as the AF Style allows. To have different rules for this for each "style" of uniform does seem a bit like discrimination and an unequal application of the system.

Again, both the CSU and the AF Style uniforms are CAP uniforms and NOT regular AF. As CAP uniforms we should be allowed to wear the same bling on each. I'd be happy to settle on either style, but keeping them both doesn't work for me.

Can someone please tell me what the problem would be with just having one set of each type of uniform? 1 Dress, 1 BDU type, 1 informal (Polo type), 1 Flight Suit. Do we REALLY need multiple "equivalents" of everything?

And to those people who say that you cannot wear your prior service stuff on civies better get new copies of the regs. Due to some very fine efforts of the VA and their recent promotion called the Veterans Pride Initiative (http://www1.va.gov/veteranspride/) just about all of the services now allow honorably discharged veterans to wear their bling on civies on national patriotic holidays and other suitable military type occassions. Almost all veterans organizations (VFW, American Legion, DAV, etc.) now allow members to wear their bling while participating in organization events.

I for one am very tired of "false humility" and the "60's liberal hippie" mentality that discourages vets from wearing their rightfully earned stuff. If you are a vet, wear your "stuff" proudly and tell the "military-uneducated" where to get off.
 
Ok, End of today's rant...