Ranger Roll

[shorning]

it is still a BDU cap and cannot be rolled or crushed.  So your friend was wrong.

...and THAT'S the answer I was looking for.  Thank you.

Which is what the reg said in the first place...

[DNall]

Sounds like you're wearing it wrong too, & try some starch. By the way, if you actually believed the logic you started us with, any hat that said patrol or ranger instead of BDU would not be authorized. Obviously that's not that case & you can't use some wording on a lable that won't be readable long to justify breaking regs. 

[brasda91]

While I was partly wondering about my hat situation, the real question was wether the person that told me a ranger roll was authorized for caps other than those which specifically say "BDU cap" was correct, or if they were simply bending a regulation in a way that was unintended under 39-1.

That is the real question.

The person that told you that is wrong.  "BDU cap" is the standard term to include "Patrol cap".  A "BDU cap" and "Patrol cap" is the exact same cap/hat.  You could even say that "Patrol cap" is the slang term for the "BDU cap".

Tags - MIKE

[davedove]

Sounds like you're wearing it wrong too, & try some starch. By the way, if you actually believed the logic you started us with, any hat that said patrol or ranger instead of BDU would not be authorized. Obviously that's not that case & you can't use some wording on a lable that won't be readable long to justify breaking regs. 

This is the best answer I've seen.  If the guy wants to use his logic to say it's not really a BDU cap, then by his logic it's not authorized.

That being said, they're all the same thing.

[Becks]

My answer to people who I see rolled their cap;  "Have you been through Fort Benning?  No?  Then unroll your cover."

[mikeylikey]

^  agree with Becks!  Take the rolls out.  It only makes you look like a wanabe.  If you are having problems wearing your cover properly, I will gladly come to your unit, give a 30 minute presentation and seriously correct you. 

[Rangersigo]

The "Ranger Roll" is not permitted in the Army as well.  AR 670-1 cover military uniform and appearance for Army and it excludes it...   It also gives commanders some authority to make minor modifications to the uniform in field environments - this is how it originated.  The Patrol Cap would be rolled down to come in contact with the top of the head - a lower profile and more contact are made the cap stay in place somewhat better...

[Rangersigo]

My answer to people who I see rolled their cap;  "Have you been through Fort Benning?  No?  Then unroll your cover."

So what are you going to say when you ask me that question and I say "Yes"?

[SJFedor]

My answer to people who I see rolled their cap;  "Have you been through Fort Benning?  No?  Then unroll your cover."

So what are you going to say when you ask me that question and I say "Yes"?

Burn!!!!

[Hawk200]

The person that told you that is wrong.  "BDU cap" is the standard term to include "Patrol cap".  A "BDU cap" and "Patrol cap" is the exact same cap/hat.  You could even say that "Patrol cap" is the slang term for the "BDU cap".

Actually, most of the "BDU caps" were designated as "patrol caps" by the Army. The BDU was primarily designed by the Army, so they made the designations on the uniform pieces. "Patrol cap" is not slang, it's the designated nomenclature for the BDU cover. "BDU cap" is more of a slang term.

[CAP428]

Oh. My. Gosh.

I don't know how I can explain this any simpler to you people.

I don't roll my cover.

I was speaking with someone and I mentioned that my hat is taller than I thought looked/felt normal.  He said, "You could ranger roll it."  I replied, "That's not authorized."  He said that wasn't the case because my cap said "Patrol cap" and 39-1 says "BDU cap."

I still wasn't convinced so I brought it here for discussion.

Somebody suggested I starch my cap.  I haven't found a need for that because I use a BDU cap stiffener anyway.

It's not that big a deal.  It's not that tall, I was just making conversation with the guy and he suggested ranger rolling and proceded to explain why it was "authorized."





Does that clear anything up for you?

By the way, if you actually believed the logic you started us with, any hat that said patrol or ranger instead of BDU would not be authorized.

Did you even bother to read my posts?  The whole point is that I didn't believe his logic and so I brought it here for discussion.

Which is what the reg said in the first place...

We're reading for context here, shorning.  Hypothetically, the discussion point was Is that what the reg stated, or was the wording of "BDU cap" exclusive to patrol caps and ranger hats.  The issue was not what the reg said (obviously rolling is not allowed for BDU caps.)  The issue lied in whether all the similar style camouflage hats were considered BDU caps or whether that term only applied to those specific hats which stated they were so.

Your post is negated.



Correct me if I'm wrong, can't a wing commander authorize the use of uniform items not specifically included in 39-1?  So, hypothetically if, and I say if so you don't jump all over this point like I said it's fact, as you did with the last points made.  IF the manual had used the term "BDU cap" to specifically exclude those similar style hats which say "patrol cap" or "ranger hat," couldn't a wing commander authorize those to be used himself?

Just a thought.  I repeat, a THOUGHT.  Not a statement of belief nor ignorance of regulations.

[mikeylikey]

The "Ranger Roll" is not permitted in the Army as well.  AR 670-1 cover military uniform and appearance for Army and it excludes it...   It also gives commanders some authority to make minor modifications to the uniform in field environments - this is how it originated.  The Patrol Cap would be rolled down to come in contact with the top of the head - a lower profile and more contact are made the cap stay in place somewhat better...

They got rid of that wording during the last revision of 670-1.  Here is all it says in the most recently revised addition:

"(1) The patrol cap (formerly called the BDU cap) is worn with the BDU in field environments when the Kevlar helmet is not worn; on work details; or in other environments where the wear of the beret is impractical, as determined
by the commander. Additionally, personnel in initial training categories who do not wear the black beret (see para 3–5a(3)(b), above) wear the patrol cap with the BDU. The patrol cap is available in the hot-weather and temperate fabrics.

(2) Personnel wear the patrol cap straight on the head so that the cap band creates a straight line around the head, parallel to the ground. The patrol cap will fit snugly and comfortably around the largest part of the head without distortion or excessive gaps. The cap is worn so that no hair is visible on the forehead beneath the cap. At their discretion, individuals may wear the earflaps down during cold weather, except in formation when the commander may
prescribe wear policy (see fig 3–2)".

The part about distortion or excessive gaps may lead one to assume no ranger rolling, but it used to be more clearly stated in earlier uniform manuals, so there really is no policy in the Army, except local policies. 

[lordmonar]

The person that told you that is wrong.  "BDU cap" is the standard term to include "Patrol cap".  A "BDU cap" and "Patrol cap" is the exact same cap/hat.  You could even say that "Patrol cap" is the slang term for the "BDU cap".

Actually, most of the "BDU caps" were designated as "patrol caps" by the Army. The BDU was primarily designed by the Army, so they made the designations on the uniform pieces. "Patrol cap" is not slang, it's the designated nomenclature for the BDU cover. "BDU cap" is more of a slang term.

Hawk....take off you cap and look at the tag....what does it say?  Mine says "Cap, Hot Weather".  Patrol Cap, BDU Cap...it's all the same.

[Becks]

My answer to people who I see rolled their cap;  "Have you been through Fort Benning?  No?  Then unroll your cover."

So what are you going to say when you ask me that question and I say "Yes"?

"Hooah" 

[Hawk200]

Hawk....take off you cap and look at the tag....what does it say?  Mine says "Cap, Hot Weather".  Patrol Cap, BDU Cap...it's all the same.

Mine says the same. But as a military man yourself, you know how the military designates a name for something that quite often doesn't match the label inside. 

[brasda91]

My answer to people who I see rolled their cap;  "Have you been through Fort Benning?  No?  Then unroll your cover."

So what are you going to say when you ask me that question and I say "Yes"?

Hey, I've spent a considerable amount of time on Benning.  Does that qualify me, too?! 

[brasda91]

The person that told you that is wrong.  "BDU cap" is the standard term to include "Patrol cap".  A "BDU cap" and "Patrol cap" is the exact same cap/hat.  You could even say that "Patrol cap" is the slang term for the "BDU cap".

Actually, most of the "BDU caps" were designated as "patrol caps" by the Army. The BDU was primarily designed by the Army, so they made the designations on the uniform pieces. "Patrol cap" is not slang, it's the designated nomenclature for the BDU cover. "BDU cap" is more of a slang term.

Quote from: Rangersigo on Yesterday at 11:30:12 AM
The "Ranger Roll" is not permitted in the Army as well.  AR 670-1 cover military uniform and appearance for Army and it excludes it...   It also gives commanders some authority to make minor modifications to the uniform in field environments - this is how it originated.  The Patrol Cap would be rolled down to come in contact with the top of the head - a lower profile and more contact are made the cap stay in place somewhat better...


They got rid of that wording during the last revision of 670-1.  Here is all it says in the most recently revised addition:

"(1) The patrol cap (formerly called the BDU cap) is worn with the BDU in field environments when the Kevlar helmet is not worn; on work details; or in other environments where the wear of the beret is impractical, as determined
by the commander. Additionally, personnel in initial training categories who do not wear the black beret (see para 3–5a(3)(b), above) wear the patrol cap with the BDU. The patrol cap is available in the hot-weather and temperate fabrics.

(2) Personnel wear the patrol cap straight on the head so that the cap band creates a straight line around the head, parallel to the ground. The patrol cap will fit snugly and comfortably around the largest part of the head without distortion or excessive gaps. The cap is worn so that no hair is visible on the forehead beneath the cap. At their discretion, individuals may wear the earflaps down during cold weather, except in formation when the commander may
prescribe wear policy (see fig 3–2)".

The part about distortion or excessive gaps may lead one to assume no ranger rolling, but it used to be more clearly stated in earlier uniform manuals, so there really is no policy in the Army, except local policies.

When I was on active duty, it was a BDU cap (even though we didn't wear them  , read 82nd Airborne  .  Like alot of changes over the years with the Army, evidently so has the terminolgy that is used to describe and label, the camouflaged hat you wear on your head while in the BDU uniform.  Whatever you call it, NO you cannot "Ranger Roll" it.  And no, the part about excessive gaps has nothing to do in refrence to "Ranger Rolling".  As stated previously, tell your friend no, "Ranger Rolls" are not authorized, no matter what his covers label calls it.

[Rangersigo]

My answer to people who I see rolled their cap;  "Have you been through Fort Benning?  No?  Then unroll your cover."

So what are you going to say when you ask me that question and I say "Yes"?

Hey, I've spent a considerable amount of time on Benning.  Does that qualify me, too?! 

What Bat did you serve or what is your ranger class number - can't answer either then I would say probably not :-)

[afgeo4]

BDU Cap: Either the USAF or Army style BDU cap or camouflage BDU baseball cap may be worn
with the BDU uniform. Senior members, cadet NCOs, and airmen do not wear any type of insignia
on the cap. Cadet officers wear the embroidered grade insignia centered 1/2 inch above the visor on
the BDU cap. Cap will not be worn crushed or rolled. Marine style BDU cap is not authorized.

This rolling of the BDU, often referred to as "ranger rolling," is prohibited per CAPM 39-1.  However, I recently heard somebody mention that this is only applicable to those BDU caps whose labels say "BDU cap" or something like that.  He went on to say that if the label said "Patrol cap," or "Ranger Hat," you may ranger roll your cap. I did not think that sounded right, but I decided to look into it.

I have one that says "Patrol cap" and my friend has one that says "ranger hat."  I wanted to ranger roll my hat, because without it it sits really, really tall on my head and the only other way to stop that is to pull it down farther, then obviously obstructing my view.  However, I have searched through CAPM 39-1, looked for any pertinent policy letters, googled the subject, searched the forum history here, and checked the CAP Knowledgebase......

....without finding any mention of being able to ranger roll in cases where it says "Patrol cap" or "Ranger hat."

However one could make the argument that because the section of 39-1 dealing with this issue specifically says "BDU cap", that the rule of not rolling the cap is only applicable to those caps that also specifically say "BDU cap" since 39-1 does not make any mention of it when referring to baseball-style hats.


What are your thoughts??

BTW my "Patrol" cap is made by the company PROPPER.

Because the manual only authorized the BDU cap and not the Ranger or Patrol cap, your point is mute. The latter two are not authorized to begin with.

[MIKE]

I guess this is one of the reasons ABUs will be good for CAP and the USAF... It will most likely force members to go out and get the genuine article, versus some cheap knock off.  This assumes there isn't much of a market for the ABU outside of CAP and the USAF... Realizing that ACU and MARPAT knockoffs are out there.