Why we should keep the flag patch...

[Major Carrales]

To the untrained eye, all service men are lumped into one's understanding of the military.  Unlike decades past, where the number of veterans was a large percentage of the population and the number of "blue stars" in people windows was more significant, many families on our time have no close members serving.  That is only a crude generalization and I am aware of lots of families making the choice to serve, however, lots of families aren't.

From a Public Affairs point of view I would have to say the Army get the most recognition.  I have seen sailors in Kingsville, some of which were wearing uniforms that were clearly NAVY, be refered to and introduced by local dignataries as "soldiers."  To many the "military" is the "army."

[brasda91]

The point here was a positive story about one reason the flag should stay

Thank you.  I enjoyed it.  And I like my American flag.

[jbkrieger]

The point here was a positive story about one reason the flag should stay

Thank you.  I enjoyed it.  And I like my American flag.

Me too.   Keep the flag for this and all the other reasons!

[Stonewall]

So, it was the American Flag that she saw that told her you weren't a hunter?  Not your orange vest?  Good thing she came at you from the right side, cuz if she came at you from the left, she could have pegged you as a hunter and you would have been in big trouble.  Not to mention the fact that you were tearing down your camper, at a camp type site; nor did you have a gun, face paint or deer stand or some sort of hunting dog.  Was she training for the Special Olympics?

As far as people thinking we're some branch of the military, who cares?  You think people never mix Navy for Army, Marines for Air Force or whatever.  I've been in my AF BDUs at Subway during drill with the only military for 100 miles being the Air Guard Base and someone still asked if I were in the Army.  This with rank on my sleeve, blue on OD badges and a tape that said U.S. AIR FORCE.

Using this scenario as a basis for keeping the American Flag patch on our uniform is, if nothing else, goofy.  You can like it or dislike it; I happen to dislike wearing it.  But to validate wearing it because someone may have thought you were a hunter....goofy.

[Eclipse]

You've completely missed the point of the story...

[Stonewall]

You've completely missed the point of the story...

Enlighten me, please.  Was the point that we (CAP) got recognition?  She thanked you for service?  Or that the flag on our uniform is important as a means of identification and to keep us safe from mistaken identity.

[mikeylikey]

I come back to this thread to mention.....that lady that was jogging is NUTS!  I would never run or jog in an area that doubles as a open hunting area.  Even wearing orange pants and a jacket, I constantly read about people being shot at and getting shot during hunting season. 

Anyway, I don't care one way or another if we keep the flag.  Honestly, I would like to see all the patches come off the uniform except for the wing patch, name and branch tapes.  No special activity, no badges, no wings, NOTHING.  Make the uniform plain and simple.

[Eclipse]

Explaining this is like explaining a joke - either you get it or you don't.

[Stonewall]

Well, I guess we have a few people here that don't get your joke/story.  First two replies didn't understand either.  I think it would be beneficial if you did explain it so we can get what you're saying.

Title of this thread: "Why we should keep the flag patch".

Reasoning:  Because a woman jogging near your training area almost mistook you for a hunter until she saw the flag patch.

My response:  I don't think that's a good enough argument for keeping/having the flag on our BDUs.

[mikeylikey]

^  "Why we should keep the flag patch".......WE SHOULDN'T!

This is like one of those "finish the sentense things".  I get it now!

There is no reason to have it.  It was introduced with no reasoning behind it (at least reasoning that was reasonable).  The only thing I can think was the major cause for mandating it was VANGUARD telling TP what else CAP needed, so that they COULD MAKE MORE MONEY.

Am I the only person that can see Vanguard is/was (maybe not anymore) the major player behind our uniform changes?!?

As far as the flag goes, has anyone here deployed outside the US with CAP lately?  (other than IACE)

Lets set a goal of removing it by 2009.  That is ample time to get fair use out of it for all those members who now wear it.

[Eclipse]

The only thing I can think was the major cause for mandating it was VANGUARD telling TP what else CAP needed, so that they COULD MAKE MORE MONEY.

Am I the only person that can see Vanguard is/was (maybe not anymore) the major player behind our uniform changes?!?

Yes, you are the only one...

[AlphaSigOU]

^  "Why we should keep the flag patch".......WE SHOULDN'T!

This is like one of those "finish the sentense things".  I get it now!

There is no reason to have it.  It was introduced with no reasoning behind it (at least reasoning that was reasonable).  The only thing I can think was the major cause for mandating it was VANGUARD telling TP what else CAP needed, so that they COULD MAKE MORE MONEY.

Am I the only person that can see Vanguard is/was (maybe not anymore) the major player behind our uniform changes?!?

As far as the flag goes, has anyone here deployed outside the US with CAP lately?  (other than IACE)

Lets set a goal of removing it by 2009.  That is ample time to get fair use out of it for all those members who now wear it.

The other story I'd heard (maybe apocryphal) is that during the ops down in Mississippi there were reports of the locals whipping out their arsenals (shotguns, handcannons and rifles) at CAP members thinking that they were suspected looters.

Sure, Vanguard has the exclusive contract for CAP insignia and the former 'CAPMart' operation, but I don't think they had anything to do with it. Now that former major general who shall not be named probably came up with the idea, and ramrodded it down the membership's throats. Vanguard was only too happy to supply 'em.

[Eclipse]

The other story I'd heard (maybe apocryphal) is that during the ops down in Mississippi there were reports of the locals whipping out their arsenals (shotguns, handcannons and rifles) at CAP members thinking that they were suspected looters.

This part is true enough, though I don't know whether a flag would have helped it...

[Hawk200]

The only thing I can think was the major cause for mandating it was VANGUARD telling TP what else CAP needed, so that they COULD MAKE MORE MONEY.

Am I the only person that can see Vanguard is/was (maybe not anymore) the major player behind our uniform changes?!?

Yes, you are the only one...

No, he's not.

[Eclipse]

If you guys really believe that Vanguard is making up uniform changes in order to increase revenue...I mean >really< believe it...well, I don't even know how to respond to nonsense like that.

[mikeylikey]

If you guys really believe that Vanguard is making up uniform changes in order to increase revenue...I mean >really< believe it...well, I don't even know how to respond to nonsense like that.

Ummm.....if you doubt that could happen, I ponder.....are you a Vanguard employee or stock owner?  Stuff like that has happened throughout history, big business creating demand for items by getting laws changed, etc.

[RiverAux]

Considering that changing the CAP uniform has seemingly been the primary function of CAP's leaders throughout recent history I think it would be hard to show that Vanguard has any more "power" here than the CAP-run stores we had been using before. 

[ddelaney103]

Big Blue sent me halfway around the world and lots of places between here and there and never felt I needed an American flag patch.  CAP doesn't need one for CONUS duty.

[Eclipse]

Big Blue sent me halfway around the world and lots of places between here and there and never felt I needed an American flag patch.  CAP doesn't need one for CONUS duty.

Except on the flightsuit, right?  So left sleeve is cool, right sleeve unnecessary? 

Just checking.

[ddelaney103]

Big Blue sent me halfway around the world and lots of places between here and there and never felt I needed an American flag patch.  CAP doesn't need one for CONUS duty.

Except on the flightsuit, right?  So left sleeve is cool, right sleeve unnecessary? 

Just checking.

That's just for show - they never wear them to war (sanitizing, don't ya know?)

It's also not mandatory:

3.2.5.4. Left Sleeve. Normally the US flag, emblem of appropriate wing, group, or center, positioned no lower than 1 inch from shoulder seam in accordance with MAJCOM supplements to this instruction. Members may wear the Weapons School Patch, USAF Test Pilot School Patch, (graduate or instructor) upon completion of the appropriate school when authorized by MAJCOM supplement to this instruction. If wearing the US flag, it will be red, white, and blue in color portraying a straight flag, not a waving flag. The flag will be approximately 2X3 inches, with the union to the front and stripes trailing. Chapter 1, Title 4, United States Code, specifies the flag colors as red, white, and blue; therefore, subdued flag replicas are not authorized for wear on the FDU/DFDU.