Nomex -- Myths and Realities of Flightsuits

[Dragoon]

If safety was the issue, we'd be better off buying crash helmets and padding the dash.  My guess is that impact is our big killer, not fire.

But helmets look dorky in a 172, and nomex is cool!

[Smokey]

I've seen a few Vietnam era photos of FACs flying single engine aircraft like ours while wearing helmets......maybe a brain bucket might not be a bad safety idea but probably would look kinda odd.

[SJFedor]

And who's gonna shell out the major $$ for aviation rated brain buckets?

[wingnut]

Good discussion but to the naysayers of nomex I have to say that while in the Air Force and the Army (Both well respected expert organizations) we always had to wear a Nomexflight suit while on flight status in any type of Aircraft.

Several reasons are always given.
1. Standardization of clothing to avoid clothing that melts to the skin.
2. Wearing flight approved Boots (Not cheap nylon knock offs)
3. The use of Nomex underwear including tops and long bottoms as  well as nomex socks while wearing gloves gave maximum protection In a flash fire. NATO pilots are required to wear the underwear now.

The point is that the nomex with additional layers gave the Air Crew additional timeto escape from a burning aircraft.  A Helmets with a nomex  hood would be even greater.

The Army requires Nomex suits while in Armoured vehicles (Crewman Status),including gloves, and hoods. the whole deal is so crewmen can escape.

I don't think CAP members should have to buy their own safety equipment (The US Coast Guard Auxilary get theirs issued for free) I think it is a disgusting shame we have to buy these things off of EBAY or pay 250 for a suit and 250 for a Jacket .

[RiverAux]

CG Auxies do not get everything for free.  They would have to buy their own nomex just like anyone else.  Equipment is very dependent on how the CG feels and what they've got in their budget at any given time. 

Regarding NOMEX, since the AF would be the ones ultimately paying for treating injuries to our flightcrews or compensating for their deaths, if they thought it would save them any money at all, they would have forced CAP to make this a requirement a long time ago.  The fact that they don't seem to care speaks volumes about their assessment of the risks involved in our ops.

[wingnut]

TheCoast Guard Aux guys do receive the safety Gear for free, flotation, gear cold immersion suits, etc. But they buy their own regular uniforms.I think the main reason being issued safety gear is when they  serve on a coast guard vessel or Aircraft,  from reading the Coast Guard Regs they are considered regular crew, when under orders.

As for the AF caring,I think they do care,certainly on us about safety issues. We in California have lost a number Of Air Crews and I  know that the Pacific Region, Air Crews must wear nomex. I know in briefings for the shuttle landings the CAP crews fit in with the Nomex,often looking just as professional as the regular Army,Navy,and Air Force Air Crews in the Briefings.

[Slim]

TheCoast Guard Aux guys do receive the safety Gear for free, flotation, gear cold immersion suits, etc.

Negative.  I had to purchase my own PFDs, both a type III vest and a Mustang float coat, also a type III PFD.  I also had to purchase my own safety strobe, marker dye, and signalling devices (pyro and glow sticks).  One of the stations I supported offered to exchange some of it when it expired, but that's it.  The expired stuff was used for training.

The only thing that could have been considered as issued was my Mustang survival suit.  That was part of a stock of CGAux marked suits that were kept at and maintained by the station.  If we got underway for anything when the water temp was below 65 degrees, we had to draw suits from the station and return them after the patrol.

But they buy their own regular uniforms.I think the main reason being issued safety gear is when they  serve on a coast guard vessel or Aircraft,  from reading the Coast Guard Regs they are considered regular crew, when under orders.

Correct on buying uniforms and status while under orders.  But that has nothing to do with the Coast Guard supplying survival gear.  Order status pertains mostly to things like FECA coverage and replacement of items lost/damaged while on orders, plus things like reimbursement, and eligibility for rations/quarters at the station.  Also, a vessel or aircraft under orders is considered to be a government asset.  Auxies can augment an active duty crew, if they meet the same training standards as the AD crew (I've been out for a while, but I understand the boat crew training requirements have been brought closer in line with each other, if not the same, since I got out).

Nomex or not?  I'll take my chances on those 3-5 seconds needed to get out of the plane singed vs burned.  Unfortunately, that option's been taken away from me.

[RiverAux]

Whether or not the CG issues Auxies safety gear depends greatly on whether they've got extra gear laying around or the money to buy it.  So, one Aux region may get a bunch while others get nothing.  Many Auxies buy their own gear anyway just so they can call it their own. 

Personally, I've been issued an inflatable PFD and a Mustang dry suit that were provided to our flotilla by the CG.  And thats because our flotilla is probably the most actively patrolling flotilla in the District and the CG helps us out a lot because of that.

[Dustoff]

But I think you are missing some important points.

As a system Nomex is unbeatable. 

In addition to making you a chick-magnet.  It provides a climate controlled environment.

It's hot in the summer.

Cold in the winter.

And when it rains, you get wet!

What could be better?!?



Jim
If God had intended man to fly, he'd have been born with baggy green skin.

[NIN]

Dustoff

You speak the truth!

But honestly, back to the original start of the topic: WIWAFE (When I Was A Flight Engineer), a guy I had gone to AIT with was the crew chief on the CH-47 that caught fire and crashed in a field outside of Chico, Texas.  His Nomex saved his life from the in-flight fire. However, his habit of flying with his gloves rolled back caused him to be burned around the circumference of his wrists which ultimately led to his hands being amputated.  I had a habit to wear my gloves with a similar roll-back, but with my wrists still covered. When I heard about that accident and its aftermath, I never again flew with my gloves like that. Heck no.



I call shennanigans.

[SJFedor]

Shenanigans!

[pixelwonk]

I swear to God, I'll pistol whip the next guy that says shenanigans!

[SarDragon]

shenanigans

Come get me!

[pixelwonk]

^woosh^
That was an obscure Super Troopers reference whizzing over Dave's head just then.

Ok, back on topic now...

[SarDragon]

Yup, Mach 3 at FL60. That was a really st00pid movie. YMMV.

[I liked the pop culture reference better.]

[Short Field]

Nothing goes through NOMEX faster than a cup of hot coffee spilled in your lap. 

[O-Rex]

It's hot in the summer.

Cold in the winter.

And when it rains, you get wet!

What could be better?!?

Maintains odor, promotes wetness, and stays soggy in milk....

[SJFedor]

I swear to God, I'll pistol whip the next guy that says shenanigans!

shenanigans

Come get me!

[wingnut]

wearing nomex when it is 110 is no fun,as for the cold I have been able to obtain the nomex cold weather underwear. I think for the summers really hot weather we should have access to the same type of Hotweather refrigeration units that the chopper crews wear. It circulates cool air,the shuttle crew wears a unit that circulates cold water and weighs about 20 lbs .

lets just order air conditioning in the 182s

[Duke Dillio]

Just go commando in the summer.  Less clothing makes it cooler for you.  Why spend money on air conditioners when you can spend less money on new underwear.