Patch suppliers

[IceNine]

It is not authorized specifically, The only place it could be put is on the right shoulder but that area is addressed and says only (wing, region, National) patches are authorized.

So, this is one of those cases that because its not mentioned its not authorized.

39-1 Pg 34 #6

[Hawk200]

It is not authorized specifically, The only place it could be put is on the right shoulder but that area is addressed and says only (wing, region, National) patches are authorized.

So, this is one of those cases that because its not mentioned its not authorized.

39-1 Pg 34 #6

What it says is "Member may choose one of the authorized patches for the right shoulder, may be wing, region or National shoulder patch." It does not say that the wing, region, or National patches are the only ones authorized.

Table 6-4 lists the authorized patches, along with the wear criteria of "on the right sleeve 1/2 inch below shoulder seam of BDU or field uniform shirt, BDU or dark blue field jacket, utility uniform or flight suit."

The entire manual must be read to know what is and isn't authorized. Otherwise, things will be left out, and misiformation will continue.

[MIKE]

slight derail:

39-1 only gives instruction on wearing on BDUs or BBDUs. Is it possible to wear a Unit Patch on a Flightsuit?

Nope.  Note that the same table notes specifically which patches are authorized for wear on the flightsuit.

[Eclipse]

In addition to Wing or Region, in Alpha order:

Aerial Radiological Monitoring Patch
AETC FC Patch
AFRCC SAR School Patches
AFSC FC Patch
Blue Beret Patch
Cadet Officer School Patch
Cadet Orientation Pilot Patch
Hawk Mountain Patch
Membership 2000
NASAR Qualification Patches
National Cadet Special Activities Patches
National Check Pilots Patch
National Emergency Services Academy Patch
National Encampment Patch
National Flight Academy Patch
National Honor Guard Academy Patch
National SAR Competition Patch
Pararescue Orientation School Patch
Pilot Proficiency Patch

Are the only optional patches authorized for wear on the flightsuit.  Award criteria for the patch(s) themselves is listed seperately (i.e. 50 O-rides for O-Pilot).

Interestingly the Stan/Eval patch is not mentioned, though is commonly worn in these parts. The KB mentions the check pilot / stan eval patch, but I don't see it in 39-1. Is that the same as the National Check Pilot's patch?

[Hawk200]

Interestingly the Stan/Eval patch is not mentioned, though is commonly worn in these parts. The KB mentions the check pilot / stan eval patch, but I don't see it in 39-1. Is that the same as the National Check Pilot's patch?

That's the one. Take a look at page 122 of 39-1.

[Mustang]

Note that if your patch design includes any CAP specific (hence copyrighted) logos, such as the prop and triangle, you're required to have the patch produced by Vanguard, or get a release letter from Vanguard allowing another vendor to do the job.

Who told you that???

[DHollywood]

Note that if your patch design includes any CAP specific (hence copyrighted) logos, such as the prop and triangle, you're required to have the patch produced by Vanguard, or get a release letter from Vanguard allowing another vendor to do the job.

s/v

Midway Six

CAPblog
Always Vigilant - Never Boring.
http://capblog.typepad.com/

Rod ?

[wilx]

With respect, Midway Six, I'm going to call you out on this one and say that you are wrong.  I'm asking you to defend your claim and will be grateful for a reference from CAP NHQ which supports it.

In defending my position that you are wrong, I point to CAP Regulation 900-2, "Civil Air Patrol Seal, Emblem and Flag Etiquette."  This regulation covers the legal use of the CAP name and emblems.  Section A specifically covers the Civil Air Patrol name and seal, and paragraph 3 their use.  While it does not specifically state the use of copyright elements of the design, it is clear that Civil Air Patrol (per Federal Statute 36 U.S.C. Section 40306) controls the use of the emblem, not Vanguard.

There is certainly grey area in the regulation, so you might be right.  However, I'm not going to accept such a statement on heresay.  This is why I'm asking for your reference.

Thank you,
MARK WILKINSON, Maj, CAP
Commander
Utah Northern Group

Note that if your patch design includes any CAP specific (hence copyrighted) logos, such as the prop and triangle, you're required to have the patch produced by Vanguard, or get a release letter from Vanguard allowing another vendor to do the job.

s/v

Midway Six

[alamrcn]

MidwaySix might have stated in jest, but it's hard to be certain. I took it as a stroke at humor, without the token "j/k" or "" to accompany it.

However, I'm sure there are people out there that would believe it with former CAP stuff suppliers dropping out of the niche like moths in your squadron supply room... (ohh, there's that unit charter certificate!)

Although I forget what manufacturer, there was one that stated on their website they would no longer make ANY Civil Air Patrol insignia or patches - just to be certain that they complied with the C/D order from National legal. Did someone get there hands on one of those? I wonder if Tom at the Hock Shop would be willing to scan one in for us... but he probably has it framed and hanging on the shop wall!

-Ace

[JC004]

With respect, Midway Six, I'm going to call you out on this one and say that you are wrong.  I'm asking you to defend your claim and will be grateful for a reference from CAP NHQ which supports it.
...

When I was talking to a unit commander, he showed me a letter they received from a patch vendor who they approached about a squadron patch.  The letter cited a C&D letter from CAP NHQ concerning production of CAP patches.  Wonder if I can dig up a copy...

[RogueLeader]

Even though VG does not have the copyrightes  to our stuff, but if NHQ gave them an "exclusive" contract to VG, VG could sue CAP for breach of contract- provided NHQ did nothing to stop the unauthorized vendors.

[alamrcn]

I would think any efforts to stop any member, unit, or company would be "CYA" paperwork at best. Afterall, no one involved would benifit by "stirring up the pot" with such a miniscule item as a squadron patch.

One harsh knee-jerk reaction by Nat'l HQ (who hopefully still represents its membership) or Vanguard could trigger a LOT more negative feelings on the matter than there already are.

We, the membership, might have enough evidence to cancel any contract with Vanguard anyway because of their inability to perform as [probably] agreed to.

Inability to solve customer service issues and failure to provide supply to demand would be two big ones. I had to finally cancel my SIX MONTH back-order of the ARCHER patch!

Hey, Vanguard...
<(I)>
  ] [

1-800-THE-HOCK  /  www.TheHock.com

[Pylon]

With respect, Midway Six, I'm going to call you out on this one and say that you are wrong.  I'm asking you to defend your claim and will be grateful for a reference from CAP NHQ which supports it.

In defending my position that you are wrong, I point to CAP Regulation 900-2, "Civil Air Patrol Seal, Emblem and Flag Etiquette."  This regulation covers the legal use of the CAP name and emblems.  Section A specifically covers the Civil Air Patrol name and seal, and paragraph 3 their use.  While it does not specifically state the use of copyright elements of the design, it is clear that Civil Air Patrol (per Federal Statute 36 U.S.C. Section 40306) controls the use of the emblem, not Vanguard.

There is certainly grey area in the regulation, so you might be right.  However, I'm not going to accept such a statement on heresay.  This is why I'm asking for your reference.

Thank you,
MARK WILKINSON, Maj, CAP
Commander
Utah Northern Group

Welcome Mark!

Midway Six's post is correct.  Your answer is not contained in CAP Regulation, but U.S. Federal Code.

The corporation has the exclusive right to use the name "Civil Air Patrol" and all insignia, copyrights, emblems, badges, descriptive or designating marks, words, and phrases the corporation adopts. This section does not affect any vested rights.

TITLE 36 > Subtitle II > Part B > CHAPTER 403 > § 40306

You can verify that at:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode36/usc_sec_36_00040306----000-.html


Civil Air Patrol, Inc., with it's exclusive rights to the use of our name, logos, and insignia granted exclusive permission to Vanguard to produce Civil Air Patrol items.

It has been well documented on CAPBlog and other sources that plenty of previous vendors of CAP items (people who made CAP embroidered insignia, CAP flight badges, etc.) stopped producing them and publically posted that they received cease and desist orders from CAP NHQ.

Civil Air Patrol, Inc. has the authority to stop people that they haven't authorized to use it's "insignia, copyrights, emblems, badges, descriptive or designating marks, words, and phrases." 

If you call National Headquarters membership services and ask who is authorized to produce unit patches bearing distinctive CAP marks or the words "Civil Air Patrol" on them, they will tell you that Vanguard is the only authorized vendor.

It's not a tongue-in-cheek joke about Vanguard, but the facts of the situation.  Does this mean that you can't farm out your patch production to some random company that doesn't know better?  Absolutely not; but technically speaking, it's against the law as much as producting unauthorized collegiate sports merchandise.

[alamrcn]

but technically speaking, it's against the law as much as producting unauthorized collegiate sports merchandise.

My core values are a good as the next member's, so I don't think I want to knowingly go breaking the law for having a unit patch made by a manufacturer of my own choosing. Even though I wouldn't think Civil Air Patrol would "go after" me or the manufacturer.

Perhaps Nat'l legal can put out a memo, make an amendment to 900-2, or even bring this up in the new <G!> 39-1 to clear it up. What I hope they don't do it say that ONLY Vanguard can manufacturer any and all Civil Air Patrol uniform insignia. As I said before, there is no publicly available statement as to such, but I am tempted to call Membership Services and see if they can answer these questions.

I guess maybe the big question is, WHO represents the corperation? Does a current member in good standing represent the corperation and can authorize such use?
I seriously doubt that the National CC or a committee is going to decide whether or not to authorize each and every use of the name "Civil Air Patrol" or its emblems like the tri-prop.

Perhaps since it is up to the Wing Commander to approve a patch design for a lower echelon, it is also up to him to authorize the manufacturer to produce the design... which itself IS NOW an emblem of the corperation.

Friggen Legal Bull Spit!!

-Ace

[wilx]

Civil Air Patrol, Inc., with it's exclusive rights to the use of our name, logos, and insignia granted exclusive permission to Vanguard to produce Civil Air Patrol items.

It has been well documented on CAPBlog and other sources that plenty of previous vendors of CAP items (people who made CAP embroidered insignia, CAP flight badges, etc.) stopped producing them and publically posted that they received cease and desist orders from CAP NHQ.

Civil Air Patrol, Inc. has the authority to stop people that they haven't authorized to use it's "insignia, copyrights, emblems, badges, descriptive or designating marks, words, and phrases." 

If you call National Headquarters membership services and ask who is authorized to produce unit patches bearing distinctive CAP marks or the words "Civil Air Patrol" on them, they will tell you that Vanguard is the only authorized vendor.

Thank you, Pylon, for providing the information on the hows and whys of this restriction.  I consider it a massive oversight on the part of the National Board to fail to mention this to the wing commanders (legally officers of CAP, Inc.) who authorize CAP unit logos.

I will contact NHQ membership services and ask for a clarification from them.  Whatever their reply, I will respond here and work to get a policy letter addended to CAPR900-2.  It is fundamentally wrong to have CAP squadron commanders ordering patches only to have CAP corporate turn around and threaten the vendor with a cease-and-desist order.

Again, thanks and I will report back here, and work to have CAP Regulations addended.

MARK WILKINSON, Maj, CAP
Commander
Utah Northern Group

[wilx]

I guess maybe the big question is, WHO represents the corperation? Does a current member in good standing represent the corperation and can authorize such use?

...

Perhaps since it is up to the Wing Commander to approve a patch design for a lower echelon, it is also up to him to authorize the manufacturer to produce the design... which itself IS NOW an emblem of the corperation.

Alamrcn:

Wing commanders, region commanders, and the national baord are corporate officers of Civil Air Patrol, Inc. and can legally obligate CAP, Inc.  If CAP, Inc. has signed an exclusivity agreement with Vanguard for the production of unit patches, then a corporate officer cannot authorize another vendor without breaching that contract.

I'll contact member services and post what I learn.

MARK WILKINSON, Maj, CAP
Commander
Utah Northern Group

[alamrcn]

I appreciate your efforts to get to the bottom of this matter, and look forward to hearing what membership services have to say.

If CAP, Inc. has signed an exclusivity agreement with Vanguard

How can the members expect to adhear to something that hasn't been made known to them? We "know" what has been said here on these forums, but I don't consider that official at all.

I find this in the CAP Board of Governors Minutes from 07 Dec 05 (bold mine)...

DECISION ON PAPER: OUTSOURCING CAPMart
- PURPOSE: To obtain endorsement to outsource CAPMart function to Vanguard
Industries, Inc.
- BACKGROUND:
-- CAP has operated CAPMart over 20 years as a profit center supplying members
with apparel and uniform items unique to the CAP program
-- Most years CAPMart returned revenue to the program, however, in the past few
years, sales have declined...in FY04 CAPMart lost about $200,000
-- In FY05, CAPMart returned a profit of $35,000 but that required more inventory
control, a voluntary reduction in staff, and a management change
-- Even with the return of profitability many issues remain: web site usability, financial
software support, inventory control, sales tax collection, shipping charges, and
management time needed to fix issues
-- One solution would require a $200,000 infrastructure improvement to fix most issues
but any previous sales tax liabilities could remain while applying to each county and
state for sales tax numbers...estimated at an additional $350,000 exposure
-- Preferred solution is to outsource the function to a company that provides fulfillment
as their core business
--- Fixes all issues; over time would improve customer satisfaction; lessens any
prior tax exposure as no new applications would be required; and a royalty for
using CAP's name would return an estimated $100,000 annually
-- Reviewed four company proposals and visited three business sites
-- Vanguard recommended for contract--- CAP fits into their core business and company is positioned to add CAP to its
current customer list of Young Marines, Junior ROTC, and other school
programs
--- Committed to train customer service and expand market of new products
--- 5 year contract with renewal options
CAP Board of Governors Minutes 7 Dec 05
--- Royalties, at current sales, would return $108,000 to CAP's program
--- Purchase CAPMart inventory for $210,000
-- Transition target of 1 January 2006
--- Working details but we would continue to take orders and forward to Vanguard
--- Link their web site to our site -- seamless to the customer
-- CAPMart closeout costs paid with CAPMart account and no additional dollars would
be required - estimated at $68,000 (employee costs and contracts)
--- Currently employ 9 employees but would only be practical to retain two
employees; the other 7 employees would be entitled to severance packages
as described in our employee handbook... total estimate of $52,000
--- Will need to buyout several contracts (phone, postage machine)
--- Any serviceable equipment and supplies will be returned to CAP wings
--- Cost can be paid from CAPMart account
- DECISION:
-- Endorse outsourcing to Vanguard

Definately a mention of a contract, but no mention of anything exclusive. This still isn't much of a statement to the membership. Anyone else have any meeting minutes, memos, or Post-it notes?

-Ace

[JC004]

Definately a mention of a contract, but no mention of anything exclusive. This still isn't much of a statement to the membership. Anyone else have any meeting minutes, memos, or Post-it notes?

-Ace

I have a post-it and the back of an envelope.  I was talking to the Assistant General Counsel the other day and he mentioned the exclusivity of the contract with Vanguard.  Didn't get much into it though because we were actually talking about the term "unauthorized advertising" in 110-1.

[alamrcn]

I guess it IS true.

A member of my unit makes display case systems for medals, awards, insignia, flags, etc, as well as plaques and some other things.
I don't think he'd mind if I mentioned his business address here...
http://www.classicalhardwood.com/

Anyway, he has engravings in the displays that allow the customer to include the branch logo of their branch of service (Army, Navy, Boy Scouts, etc.). He wanted to include the CAP logo as well, so he wrote to Plans and Programs for permission to use the logo outside of official CAP usage.

THAT'S A NEGATIVE was their answer.  Vanguard has sole ownership over commercial use of the CAP logo.  He tried to explain that he wasn't using it in any advertising, just as an option for a customer. Even further, they won't let him advertise in Volunteer magazine because Vanguard sells SOME KIND of hokey shadow boxes!

I just had a brand new patch with a CAP tri-prop on it made in the last two weeks - and NOT by Vanguard! I will not give up the name of the supplier either, at least not to someone who wants to know for purposes other than having a patch made.

What can we as general membership do? The BoG screwed us to make a few extra bucks off the top! I'm informally going through the CoC with the situation, but maybe someone has an idea what to do more effectively.

-Ace

[JC004]

If they didn't SUCK, this wouldn't be such an issue.  BUT, they do suck.  Major suck.