Sun-N-Fun

[BillB]

Several reports of storms and tornados hitting the Lakeland FL area appears to have resulted in thirty someodd aircraft damaged and 70 people were trapped for a short time under a tent. Sun-N-Fun is manned by CAP the same as Blue Beret.

[Shotgun]

I saw the reports and thought it was an April Fool's prank.

But a little more research disproved that quickly!

I'm Stunned!

[MSG Mac]

ALL Sun N Fun activities for tomorrow (FRIDAY) are cancelled. DO NOT come to Sun N Fun.
The airport is a mess and there are power lines down all around it. All personnel are ordered
NOT to report for duty tomorrow. Any one schedule for Saturday and Sunday are on standby
pending cleanup tomorrow and status of the airport tomorrow. Watch your e-mails for further
updates and information. All our assets on the field are safe at this time.

[Eclipse]

http://www.foxnews.com/weather/2011/03/31/suspected-tornado-collapses-airport-hangar-trapping-70/

http://www.aopa.org/sunnfun/2011/110331sun-n-fun_closed_violent_storm_destroys_many_aircraft.html

http://www.wtsp.com/slideshows/2011/gallery.aspx?slideshowname=Sun-N-Fun-Damage

[Spaceman3750]

http://www.foxnews.com/weather/2011/03/31/suspected-tornado-collapses-airport-hangar-trapping-70/

http://www.aopa.org/sunnfun/2011/110331sun-n-fun_closed_violent_storm_destroys_many_aircraft.html

http://www.wtsp.com/slideshows/2011/gallery.aspx?slideshowname=Sun-N-Fun-Damage

Looks like 121.5 might be a bit noisy tonight down there.

[BillB]

I note that in none of the news stories CAP is not mentioned. The Wing web page is also silent on CAP efforts at Sun-N-Fun. The Wing Commander went to the scene yesterday, but the Wing PAO has sent out nothing on CAP. Were ELTs activated? Did CAP turn them off?

[a2capt]

Airports are second in line to trailer parks as a tourist destination for young fledgling weather systems after they reach the age of maturity and leave the house for the first time before heading off to the higher altitudes to become something really big.

[FastAttack]

I note that in none of the news stories CAP is not mentioned. The Wing web page is also silent on CAP efforts at Sun-N-Fun. The Wing Commander went to the scene yesterday, but the Wing PAO has sent out nothing on CAP. Were ELTs activated? Did CAP turn them off?

ELTs were active , and i believe the resident ground team staying at sun n fun were on scene turning them off , i was told by another FLWG member that was out there visiting the show.

( I am going on Sunday not in a CAP capacity though)

[ketseyowyow]

I was there all week
the tornado came through and almost all CAP members stayed in the OX-5 bldg during the storm, wind meters recorded 92 next to the bldg.
The cadets were sent home that afternoon, other CAP teams came in, although they wanted strictly senior members, but senior members did most of the work though.
There weren't too many injuries, but it was a HUGE mess.
the media said that tents and hangars n such collapsed trapping 70 people. this is untrue
it was back open for business friday, and the clean up over night was astounding.

[Earhart1971]

I was on the ground Saturday. Place was all cleaned up and you would never know it was hit with weather, except a little mud here and there.

Cadets and Seniors on War Bird Duty really impressed the EAA again. Clearing the Ramp for Engine start, the EAA Guys were ecstatic. Great Job all Cadets and Seniors on War Bird Duty Saturday!

[RADIOMAN015]

I note that in none of the news stories CAP is not mentioned. The Wing web page is also silent on CAP efforts at Sun-N-Fun. The Wing Commander went to the scene yesterday, but the Wing PAO has sent out nothing on CAP. Were ELTs activated? Did CAP turn them off?

From a public relations standpoint, that's always a challenge.   There's really limited active PAO's nationwide and they can't be everywhere.   IF members attending an activity would take some photos and gather the names of the participants, PAO's are very capable of writing a story after the fact.  It is VERY important for us to get the word out on ALL the good things we do BUT we do need all members help in taking photos, gathering names & statements.
RM

[PHall]

I note that in none of the news stories CAP is not mentioned. The Wing web page is also silent on CAP efforts at Sun-N-Fun. The Wing Commander went to the scene yesterday, but the Wing PAO has sent out nothing on CAP. Were ELTs activated? Did CAP turn them off?

From a public relations standpoint, that's always a challenge.   There's really limited active PAO's nationwide and they can't be everywhere.   IF members attending an activity would take some photos and gather the names of the participants, PAO's are very capable of writing a story after the fact.  It is VERY important for us to get the word out on ALL the good things we do BUT we do need all members help in taking photos, gathering names & statements.
RM

It's not a "CAP" activity, it's EAA's, we're just contract help. So EAA gets to call the shots in the Public Affairs arena.
Of course if a CAP PAO had made some inputs to the EAA Public Affairs folks, we might have gotten some ink.

[RADIOMAN015]

I note that in none of the news stories CAP is not mentioned. The Wing web page is also silent on CAP efforts at Sun-N-Fun. The Wing Commander went to the scene yesterday, but the Wing PAO has sent out nothing on CAP. Were ELTs activated? Did CAP turn them off?

From a public relations standpoint, that's always a challenge.   There's really limited active PAO's nationwide and they can't be everywhere.   IF members attending an activity would take some photos and gather the names of the participants, PAO's are very capable of writing a story after the fact.  It is VERY important for us to get the word out on ALL the good things we do BUT we do need all members help in taking photos, gathering names & statements.
RM

It's not a "CAP" activity, it's EAA's, we're just contract help. So EAA gets to call the shots in the Public Affairs arena.
Of course if a CAP PAO had made some inputs to the EAA Public Affairs folks, we might have gotten some ink.

I think you are being too conservative in your approach .  IF any emergency happens, turning off all those ELT's helping people etc, I don't think the EAA is going to loose sleep over CAP publishing a short factual story about what they did to help out.   Just send a copy of the release to EAA's public relations folks.
RM
 

[Spaceman3750]

If active ELTs lead to AFRCC activating CAP on an AFAM the EAAs public information system no longer applies because we are then on AF time. Not that I would ignore what the EAA wants but that's the reality of it.

[Earhart1971]

CAP and Sun N Fun: My main thing with this event. This year was different because of the storm. In a normal year, like last year we provided to Sun N Fun about 140 Cadets and Seniors on Saturday and varied numbers of Cadets and Seniors all week.

The approximate advantage to the EAA in money savings over hiring would be a couple of hundred thousand dollars in crowd work, and supervision of the ramps for safety. I don't think the EAA could recover our services among their volunteers.

I think it might be time for CAP to talk to the EAA about some kind of benefit in $$$$ or let us open a BBQ Tent or something so that we can make a little come back on the efforts we put forth. The Food tent might be acceptable to them. Especially out by the War Birds.

CAP Leadership needs to start thinking a little more strategic on our relationship with the EAA. I spoke with hierarchy about this, and I can see by the expression that the thought never occurred to the High Ups.

If it were approached in the right way to the EAA, we could get something going. They are certainly happy with what we do there.

[BillB]

Yes it would be nice if CAP got some return from the work at Sun-n-Fun, but what do the cadets get. Basically Sun-nFun is equal to Oshcosk and Blue Beret for the work done by cadets during the week. A good portion of the cadets at Sun-n-Fun are home schooled so they can take part. But what rewards do they get? A ribbon? No. a Beret? no.
CAP should consider the two events equal and award the beret to cadets taking part in Sun-n-Fun.

[Ned]

CAP should consider the two events equal and award the beret to cadets taking part in Sun-n-Fun.

"Beret creep!"  (like mission creep, only with more of a fashion statement.  )


If this really turns into a problem, logically we could just remove the beret from NBB. 

Cheaper for everyone involved.

[Robert Hartigan]

I agree the knowledge, skills and abilities gained at Oshkosh and Sun N Fun are essentially the same, heck both are EAA events.

I also understand Ned's comment about beret creep.

So, I propose a few new National Cadet Special Activity based on Sun N Fun:

National Blue Fez
National Blue Pith Helmet
National Blue Rasta Tam (sans dreadlocks)
and my personal favorite, National Blue Deerstalker (hint: Sherlock Holmes worn one, but plaid):clap:

[BillB]

Deerstalker wouldn't work. It has bills on front and back and cadets wouldn't knew which way to wear it.

[Al Sayre]

My vote would be for National Blue Pith Helmet.  It keeps the Sun off your ears while you're having the Fun.  (I know, it's a pretty bad pun)  

[Eclipse]

...logically we could just remove the beret from NBB. 

Ned beat me to it.

The beret no longer represents what it did when the recipients completed what was then considered to be a challenging ES training activity in Iowa.

The best thing for everyone involved would be to rename the activity (CAP-Wise) to Airventure, redesign the insignia, ditch the berets (but allow those
who attended previously to wear them at the activity only) and move on.

Berets are 100% inappropriate for CAP members.

Period.

[NCRblues]

...logically we could just remove the beret from NBB. 

Ned beat me to it.

The beret no longer represents what it did when the recipients completed what was then considered to be a challenging ES training activity in Iowa.

The best thing for everyone involved would be to rename the activity (CAP-Wise) to Airventure, redesign the insignia, ditch the berets (but allow those
who attended previously to wear them at the activity only) and move on.

Berets are 100% inappropriate for CAP members.

Period.

yup, we should ditch our history and past because eclipse thinks its inappropriate 

[Eclipse]

yup, we should ditch our history and past because eclipse thinks its inappropriate

As someone from NCR, you should know the real history of BB and that it has nothing to do with Airventure.

[NCRblues]

yup, we should ditch our history and past because eclipse thinks its inappropriate

As someone from NCR, you should know the real history of BB and that it has nothing to do with Airventure.

I do, and so what? The current attendees doing the only ES job at the worlds largest fly in should not be told "hey, you cant have a beret anymore cause its not a challenging ES activity"....

That is straight up BULL eclipse... The training may not be a "rough" as it used to, but the job we do is AMAZINGLY challenging. A flight being called out at 230 am to search through 10,000 aircraft, among hundreds of metal buildings for a single ELT sounding. Or an overdue aircraft right when the cadets are supposed to go to bed. Having to man the flightlines, warbirds, ultralights and as many other things as the FAA, EAA, or NTSB can think of with limited man power is pretty challenging eclipse. Oh, and if someone crashes (like jack rousch last year) guess who gets called out for crowd control and line searching for parts for the NTSB...

So your argument that it is no longer challenging does not hold water...

[Eclipse]

That is straight up BULL eclipse... The training may not be a "rough" as it used to, but the job we do is AMAZINGLY challenging. A flight being called out at 230 am to search through 10,000 aircraft, among hundreds of metal buildings for a single ELT sounding. Or an overdue aircraft right when the cadets are supposed to go to bed. Having to man the flightlines, warbirds, ultralights and as many other things as the FAA, EAA, or NTSB can think of with limited man power is pretty challenging eclipse. Oh, and if someone crashes (like jack rousch last year) guess who gets called out for crowd control and line searching for parts for the NTSB...

Yes, CAP's presence and participation at Airventure is so "challenging" and "critical" that during the National Geographic documentary which featured the activity end-to-end, from empty field start to empty field end, Civil Air Patrol is not mentioned or seen once.

Not once.

[NCRblues]

That is straight up BULL eclipse... The training may not be a "rough" as it used to, but the job we do is AMAZINGLY challenging. A flight being called out at 230 am to search through 10,000 aircraft, among hundreds of metal buildings for a single ELT sounding. Or an overdue aircraft right when the cadets are supposed to go to bed. Having to man the flightlines, warbirds, ultralights and as many other things as the FAA, EAA, or NTSB can think of with limited man power is pretty challenging eclipse. Oh, and if someone crashes (like jack rousch last year) guess who gets called out for crowd control and line searching for parts for the NTSB...

Yes, CAP's presence and participation at Airventure is so "challenging" and "critical" that during the National Geographic documentary which featured the activity end-to-end, from empty field start to empty field end, Civil Air Patrol is not mentioned or seen once.

Not once.

You base your view point on beret on one show? WOW...guess what, CAP is generally ignored in most history's of WW2...guess we should pack it up and call it a day huh eclipse? I worry about the group you command....i really do....poor people

[Eclipse]

You base your view point on beret on one show? WOW...guess what, CAP is generally ignored in most history's of WW2...guess we should pack it up and call it a day huh eclipse? I worry about the group you command....i really do....poor people

How about you stay on track and can the personal comments, which generally get thrown when people have no response to the actual issue?

I understand the entire dynamic, and how in many cases, we are left at the alter despite incredible personal effort in these types of events, but with that said, CAP makes a lot of hay regarding being a core partner in Airventure, yet the only place we are ever mentioned in their collateral, if we're mentioned at all, is as a "sponsor" or "vendor", and a comprehensive documentary designed to show the minutia of running "the world's largest airport for two weeks" somehow was able to completely "miss" our involvement, even through random crowd shots and off-handed mentions?

See a single photo of CAP on their website?  Anywhere?

The only possible answer to the above, is that either we have relationship issues which are forcing us to the back of the room, or that we aren't quite as
big a part of the "show" as we think we are.

[NCRblues]

You base your view point on beret on one show? WOW...guess what, CAP is generally ignored in most history's of WW2...guess we should pack it up and call it a day huh eclipse? I worry about the group you command....i really do....poor people

How about you stay on track and can the personal comments, which generally get thrown when people have no response to the actual issue?

I understand the entire dynamic, and how in many cases, we are left at the alter despite incredible personal effort in these types of events, but with that said, CAP makes a lot of hay regarding being a core partner in Airventure, yet the only place we are ever mentioned in their collateral, if we're mentioned at all, is as a "sponsor" or "vendor", and a comprehensive documentary designed to show the minutia of running "the world's largest airport for two weeks" somehow was able to completely "miss" our involvement, even through random crowd shots and off-handed mentions?

See a single photo of CAP on their website?  Anywhere?

The only possible answer to the above, is that either we have relationship issues which are forcing us to the back of the room, or that we aren't quite as
big a part of the "show" as we think we are.

We do have a relationship issues. CAP signed a 99 year lease on the facility that we use. The warbirds of EAA came to CAP a few years ago and wanted the building and land our facility is on, we said no, we have a 99 year lease....it made them angry, and they take it out on CAP by not trumpeting our involvement. We are a large part eclipse....

Come up this year, ill show you around and you can see the large and challenging job we do....

[Eclipse]

Why are we involved at all if the management doesn't want us there?

It doesn't seem like a very good use of our time to be supporting a commercial endeavor for people who don't fully appreciate our being there for free.

[NCRblues]

Why are we involved at all if the management doesn't want us there?

Its not the WHOLE management....

The management is broken up into sections (warbirds, ultralights, vintage, flight line ops, so forth) The only one that is no happy with CAP is the warbirds guys, because they believe they are entitled to the land that CAP uses, because it happens to be close to the warbirds area....

CAP is loved by all the other "management" including by and large the fire department, and flight line ops.

[Spaceman3750]

Why are we involved at all if the management doesn't want us there?

Its not the WHOLE management....

The management is broken up into sections (warbirds, ultralights, vintage, flight line ops, so forth) The only one that is no happy with CAP is the warbirds guys, because they believe they are entitled to the land that CAP uses, because it happens to be close to the warbirds area....

CAP is loved by all the other "management" including by and large the fire department, and flight line ops.

So why isn't the rest of the management trumpeting our presence? Not to say I don't think that NBB isn't a very important part of Oshkosh, but it needs to be asked...

[NCRblues]

Why are we involved at all if the management doesn't want us there?

Its not the WHOLE management....

The management is broken up into sections (warbirds, ultralights, vintage, flight line ops, so forth) The only one that is no happy with CAP is the warbirds guys, because they believe they are entitled to the land that CAP uses, because it happens to be close to the warbirds area....

CAP is loved by all the other "management" including by and large the fire department, and flight line ops.

So why isn't the rest of the management trumpeting our presence? Not to say I don't think that NBB isn't a very important part of Oshkosh, but it needs to be asked...

I don't know, i don't have all the answers. Write a letter to the EAA and ask them...and yes before you even ask, i have wrote and called about it before.

[Fubar]

That is straight up BULL eclipse... The training may not be a "rough" as it used to, but the job we do is AMAZINGLY challenging. A flight being called out at 230 am to search through 10,000 aircraft, among hundreds of metal buildings for a single ELT sounding. Or an overdue aircraft right when the cadets are supposed to go to bed. Having to man the flightlines, warbirds, ultralights and as many other things as the FAA, EAA, or NTSB can think of with limited man power is pretty challenging eclipse. Oh, and if someone crashes (like jack rousch last year) guess who gets called out for crowd control and line searching for parts for the NTSB...

So your argument that it is no longer challenging does not hold water...

I don't think anyone was suggesting the kids at Airventure aren't working hard. At the same time, NBB doesn't own the corner on working hard at an event either. Hard work does not equal beret wear.

It's time for the beret to go and bring NBB in line with the rest of the NCSAs - where kids work hard, enjoy the experience and maybe get a patch out of it.