CAP IDs

[mynetdude]

Seems to me that it would be worthwhile looking for a new place for Wing hq if they are going to make it that difficult for CAP members to get on base. 

What about squadrons that are on base and/or Air Guard bases?

[RiverAux]

If they were facing that level of hassle, I would advise them to start putting some energy into finding a new home as well.  Any advantage of getting free space would be more than negated by the huge drag on recruiting that such administrative hassles would be.  I would quit rather than go through that before every meeting. 

[mynetdude]

If they were facing that level of hassle, I would advise them to start putting some energy into finding a new home as well.  Any advantage of getting free space would be more than negated by the huge drag on recruiting that such administrative hassles would be.  I would quit rather than go through that before every meeting. 

You'd think the bases would be supportive of affiliated organizations especially if they wear their uniforms. I guess its the saying "what you pay for is what you get" OTOH even IF the squadron/wing/region HQ actually paid rent, the policy would be no different.

I agree I would so forget about trying to get on base if it were that much more effort.  And then on top of that visitors, well they'd have to get on the list and they don't have a CAPID how do you explain to the guard that you are visiting?

[RiverAux]

And thats how it is under somewhat normal circumstances.  If the security threats were ratcheted up, I am confident that all CAP access to the base would be denied (thats how it has worked before in other places). 

[mikeylikey]

More likely than not, some CAP A-Hole mouthed off to some punk Security Forces Kid and that guy went and [censored]ed about all CAP members, and then the head of the Security Forces went and cried to the Base Commander, who in turn to shut up the [censored]ing SF OFFICER, said "OK I will change CAP access". 

^ I have seen that in the past. 

On the other hand the Base Commander may be an anal retentive, or fearful, or a number of other things.

What gets me is the Wing Administrator seems to have no problem getting on Base?  Could it be the Wing Commander decided that he did not want other CAP members on "his" base?

The whole thing seems silly.

[mynetdude]

More likely than not, some CAP A-Hole mouthed off to some punk Security Forces Kid and that guy went and [censored]ed about all CAP members, and then the head of the Security Forces went and cried to the Base Commander, who in turn to shut up the [censored]ing SF OFFICER, said "OK I will change CAP access". 

^ I have seen that in the past. 

On the other hand the Base Commander may be an anal retentive, or fearful, or a number of other things.

What gets me is the Wing Administrator seems to have no problem getting on Base?  Could it be the Wing Commander decided that he did not want other CAP members on "his" base?

The whole thing seems silly.

So does this apply to ALL bases CAP have facilities on now or is it just select bases? It seems to me that the base commander can establish policies on a whim for their base even if it is a stupid one and no other base are doing it but I suppose that is well within their right as each CAP squadron can make its own policies as long as it doesn't conflict with all the trickling flow of policies starting at NHQ and ending at Wing.

Someone here said something about senior members have to go through an FBI screening, this AFAIK has nothing to do with criminal record screening; It had to do with the CPP factor and if you had any offenses that pertain to child protection you of course would not be given CAP membership however I know that the FBI CAN screen (and do) for other criminal histories as well.

I can remember (pre 9/11) arriving at the Alemeda NAS to meet my cousin who was docked there, we arrived at the gate they gave us directions/where to park and find the ship and they didn't even give us a visitor pass (years before that, we went to McChord AFB to drop someone off we had to have a pass to get in).  And it was just amzing they just what you were there for and they told you how to get there and you went on your way lol...

I don't think Alemeda NAS is even open anymore, but if it were I don't think they'd think twice about that anymore.

[mikeylikey]

^ Until 9/11 All (and I mean all) Army Posts were "Open Posts"  meaning anyone can just drive on.  Air Force Bases and stations even before 9/11 were always controlled access.  The only place I know of today that is still an open post is Quantico.  The Marine Sentry will just wave you through if you have a DOD sticker on your windshield, and hand civilians coming on post a placard to place in the windshield.  He doesn't even check for military or civilian ID.  Strange?!?!

[brasda91]

^ Until 9/11 All (and I mean all) Army Posts were "Open Posts"  meaning anyone can just drive on.  Air Force Bases and stations even before 9/11 were always controlled access.  The only place I know of today that is still an open post is Quantico.  The Marine Sentry will just wave you through if you have a DOD sticker on your windshield, and hand civilians coming on post a placard to place in the windshield.  He doesn't even check for military or civilian ID.  Strange?!?!

No Ft. Campbell, KY has always had, what I would call a "closed post".  Pre 9/11 you still had to enter through a specific gate and go to the visitors building and sign in and get a pass that was displayed on your dash.

[DNall]

No Ft. Campbell, KY has always had, what I would call a "closed post".  Pre 9/11 you still had to enter through a specific gate and go to the visitors building and sign in and get a pass that was displayed on your dash.

Security was always pretty light until the det from Bragg moved in.

A lot of Army posts are still pretty open. I mean if one person has an ID they don't even check the others in the car. How secure is that? Yet, my guard/reserve base it's 100% ID of everyone in the car, and the car needs a pass or sticker which requires current insurance/registration/inspection or no access at all. Some places just take things more seriously than others.

[Short Field]

Current policy at the local air base where we have two CAP squadrons based is that the CAP ID is all that is required at the gate.  The USAF has also discontinued the use of base decals since they are doing 100% ID checks. 

[mynetdude]

Current policy at the local air base where we have two CAP squadrons based is that the CAP ID is all that is required at the gate.  The USAF has also discontinued the use of base decals since they are doing 100% ID checks. 

well Decals should never be used in place of ID checks, but Decals should signify that your vehicle is registered with the base and they have information about it. The drawback is anyone can drive your vehicle with that decal (before IDs were required at some) you could just get on base that way which is why now the ID check is required.

I know that when I go to Kingsley ANG in Klamath Falls they require all senior members/officers to have their DL (Driver's License) on the list of adults traveling to the base with cadets or POV 72hrs before the date of arrival.  Then your ID is checked at the gate with that DL # you gave your porject officer and so on.

[afgeo4]

In the Air Force, the base commander has the overall responsibility for securing the base. The SF squadron/flight is simply his/her tool to get that accomplished. Thus, every base commander has some leeway in what measures he/she can take to achieve security. However, there are AFMANs that allow CAP members to shop the MCSS and I don't believe those can be superceded by anyone on a Wing/Base level. That doesn't mean you have to fight for it, but carrying a copy of the appropriate document to show to the SF troop at the gate wouldn't hurt.

Base decals are no longer issued at many USAF installations. Parking is ample. Uninsured or unregistered vehicle owners will be fined (as usual). Random checks are done (as usual). 100% (FPCON A+) ID check or higher is in place. If you want better access to the base, speak with the SF CC or installation commander to see if they're willing to make arrangements like special passes or lists.

[DNall]

...Thus, every base commander has some leeway in what measures he/she can take to achieve security. However, there are AFMANs that allow CAP members to shop the MCSS and I don't believe those can be superceded by anyone on a Wing/Base level. ...

That doesn't say all MCSS facilities all the time. It says you can make purchases at the facility, nothing about accessing the area the facility is in. If you can go thru someone to get your name on a list two days before you show up to access the base, or if you can access MCSS somewhere else in the country or order over the phone, then that's access, it may not be the kind of access you wanted, but it's access.

[afgeo4]

...Thus, every base commander has some leeway in what measures he/she can take to achieve security. However, there are AFMANs that allow CAP members to shop the MCSS and I don't believe those can be superceded by anyone on a Wing/Base level. ...

That doesn't say all MCSS facilities all the time. It says you can make purchases at the facility, nothing about accessing the area the facility is in. If you can go thru someone to get your name on a list two days before you show up to access the base, or if you can access MCSS somewhere else in the country or order over the phone, then that's access, it may not be the kind of access you wanted, but it's access.

The AFMAN allows CAP members to shop at ALL AAFES MCSS stores without exclusion and does not specify the method. However, neither we nor anyone else may shop at MCSS stores over the phone. MCSS purchases may only be done by those who are authorized and such authorization cannot be authenticated by phone, so AAFES does not or rather should not make phone sales outside of their AAFES.COM office. Technically, the authorization doesn't state that we have a limited access to MCSS stores, so technically we cannot be denied access at any store. Being denied access to a base where the store is located is the same thing.

Hey, they can tell me that I'm only allowed to visit MCSS and go straight back out, but they can't tell me I'm not allowed to go to the MCSS. Will I raise the stink with an SP/MP? Nope. Could I? Probably.

[DNall]

The regs granting your the privilege of MCSS purchase authority do NOT grant you unrestricted on demand access to mil facilities, and you very well know that. If threat conditions can restrict access by retirees & various classes of civilian employees, then they can certainly keep you out. Attempting to cite that reg as authority to gain access is a good way to have that privilege revoked for everyone.

They told you the method to get permission to come on their restricted post for your legitimate purposes. It's unfortunate that such measures are necessary, and that's not helpful to CAP, but that's the world we live in.

[afgeo4]

The regs granting your the privilege of MCSS purchase authority do NOT grant you unrestricted on demand access to mil facilities, and you very well know that. If threat conditions can restrict access by retirees & various classes of civilian employees, then they can certainly keep you out. Attempting to cite that reg as authority to gain access is a good way to have that privilege revoked for everyone.

They told you the method to get permission to come on their restricted post for your legitimate purposes. It's unfortunate that such measures are necessary, and that's not helpful to CAP, but that's the world we live in.

The right to shop with no right to get near the store reminds me of my childhood in the USSR where everyone had the right to vote, but were told who to vote for.

I understand that the military isn't a democracy, but some sanity has to prevail. I think the point is to find a way to work things out to both agencies' advantage.

[DNall]

The right to shop with no right to get near the store reminds me of my childhood in the USSR where everyone had the right to vote, but were told who to vote for.

I understand that the military isn't a democracy, but some sanity has to prevail. I think the point is to find a way to work things out to both agencies' advantage.

Sure, and sanity does prevail... both things are true, but security takes priority over you shopping at MCSS, and it's completely up to the base CC, so you lose out. That's too bad, but frankly i don't want any crazy exception for CAP members. I'd hate to turn on the news & find some criminal exploited such a system to gain access & do bad things.

I think CAP certainly does deserve more ease of access, and I think our background checks are a good basis for that. However, that can only really happen with a secure ID. As in a CAC, but doesn't have to look just like a CAC. Like make it blue or something, there's been a few designs around. You can't just sub a $4 card from HQ though, that's not nearly good enough. You need something that works with the DoD system, but is distinctively not AF.

[CAP006]

I know that members are joining like crazy. When I joined 3 1/2 yrs ago, I got 391***  but now they are in 420***  it is actualy very cool to see what progress we are making. 

All I know is that CAP is the best thing that ever happened to me. Other than God.

[DNall]

That's called attrition, otherwise we'd have 80k+ members right now.

[afgeo4]

The right to shop with no right to get near the store reminds me of my childhood in the USSR where everyone had the right to vote, but were told who to vote for.

I understand that the military isn't a democracy, but some sanity has to prevail. I think the point is to find a way to work things out to both agencies' advantage.

Sure, and sanity does prevail... both things are true, but security takes priority over you shopping at MCSS, and it's completely up to the base CC, so you lose out. That's too bad, but frankly i don't want any crazy exception for CAP members. I'd hate to turn on the news & find some criminal exploited such a system to gain access & do bad things.

I think CAP certainly does deserve more ease of access, and I think our background checks are a good basis for that. However, that can only really happen with a secure ID. As in a CAC, but doesn't have to look just like a CAC. Like make it blue or something, there's been a few designs around. You can't just sub a $4 card from HQ though, that's not nearly good enough. You need something that works with the DoD system, but is distinctively not AF.

I think that in the end, it all comes down to the fact that CAP members should be entered into DEERS. It would alleviate ID issues allowing for CAC. It would solve the base decal issue. Also would grant us use of AAFES.com allowing AAFES to make more money through our 50,000+. Add to that our ability to access AFIADL smoother. One change in policy and procedure could potentially save lots of money for the USAF, lots of money for CAP members, and make members' lives easier which would improve retention and thereby benefit USAF again.