Question about CFI checkride

Started by flyguy06, March 24, 2007, 08:16:20 PM

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flyguy06

I am working on my CFI and I have a question. On the checkride, is the DE goig to have me do a lesson on a technical subject area or just a manuever? I ask because I have lesson planss for all the maneuvers. But the Technical subjsct areas are a little more difficult. How in depth will he want me to go? For example in Aeromedical factors. I know that there are four types of Hypoxia but if you hasked me to describe them in detail, I would have to look at my reference. Is this good or not?

I guess I am just asking how deep in the trees do Ineed to go?

JohnKachenmeister

I have no personal experience, being myself only a lowly private pilot, but I can tell you what others have told me.

The CFI checkride is the commercial pilot checkride, but flown from the right seat.  You will also have to talk the examiner through a landing.  He won't take an action until you tell him what to do.

I don't think anybody other than a doctor actually knows all four types of hypoxia enough to give instruction to others on it in any real detail.  The emphasis for a CFI should be on recognizing the symptoms early and avoiding the situation to begin with.

I hope I have not been too presumtuous in intruding myself into a discussion in which I am unqualified. 

I will now sit quietly with my hands folded respectfully.
Another former CAP officer

CFI_Ed

It depends on your examiner.  Talk to other CFI's who've flown with your DE as to what is normally expected.  All bets are off if you take a check with an FAA check airman though.

Ed
Ed Angala, Lt Col, CAP
Oklahoma Wing/DO

flyguy06

I amnot going with the FAA. My school sends its CFI candidates to a DE.

I am clear onteaching maneuvers. Its the technical subject areas that I am concerned about

flynd94

If you look at the PTS you will notice that you have to teach a technical area.  Its required.  They want to know if you can have an understanding of the knowledge.  If I remember back to my checkride.............     The DPE went heavy into aerodynamics.  I taught her what is going on during a turn.  I also discussed the power curve, Vx/Vy. 

You are required by the PTS to give a minimum of 2 ground lessons.  The flight is straight forward.  You should be talking the whole time.  The DPE will do a few of the maneuvers and make some obivous errors.  They want you to catch them and correct the problem.

Overall, its a fun ride to take.  The oral is the worst part.  Generally if you have a DPE its 2-3 hours long, if you get stuck with the FAA have fun with the day long oral.  Good luck
Keith Stason, Maj, CAP
IC3, AOBD, GBD, PSC, OSC, MP, MO, MS, GTL, GTM3, UDF, MRO
Mission Check Pilot, Check Pilot

AlaskanCFI

The DPE I had for my initial CFI exam and checkride was a real %$#*.
He noted that he did not think much of Alaskan pilots. Being "rule breakers" and such.

He had just failed some other guys so I obtained info from all of them.

I had my book with every lesson plan in it,,, accept one I forgot to print.
Of course he had me do that lesson for him,  which was weight and balance. 
Then he had me do a couple others using the classroom and the models I had brought along.

After 4 hours he tried to burn me on a question about the plane we were using, (a Piper Arrow).   He claimed there was not a squat switch and had failed the last two guys on that question.   So,,, off we went to the hanger to see the head AI.  We had to drag out the long line electrical diagrams and then I crawled around and showed him the dang switch.

By 1430 hours we were ready to head to the plane.  I had to explain everything and every part like I was teaching a student.  I managed to pull it off without going homicidal.

Then we headed to the flight area and I had to perform examples of the private and commercial maneuvers while also instructing how they should be done.
Then he would fly for awhile and do something only slightly wrong and have me coach him on how to improve.
During this period he was throwing in occasional questions about how to figure pivotal altitude, glide distance and any other odd thing he could think of to mess with my head.

He never asked any hard questions after that and we went back to the airport for some crosswind soft field, short field and emergency landings with me flying and instructing from the right seat.

During the de-brief with my master CFI, he had me critic myself.   I pointed out some mistakes I should not have made.  He thought about that for a minute or two and then said he was failing me for a crummy crosswind / soft field and not being tight enough on my 720 degree turns.  It was a hot bumpy day down in the desert.

Two days later he came back and I wrote him another check.  He flew the plane out to the test area and did a couple 720s about as well as I had.  Then I did a couple.   After that we went straight back to the airport and I made a cross-wind soft field landing where I refused to lower the nose until the taxi-way turnoff.  He wrote out my temporary slip and took off out the door with my second check in hand.

Could I have complained about him deciding to fail a maneuver after the flight?  Yes, they are supposed to notify you then and there.  But I put the noose around my own neck by doing an honest evaluation of my own goof-ups. 
I learned a lesson at the cost of an additional $150 to him and about the same to rent the plane for that last short flight.   I learned not to blow my cool, as I would have years before and that there is no such thing as a sure thing.   
I had totally believed that if I goofed up, it would be because of the 6 hour oral section and not the flying.   
Part of the test for that guy may have been to see how I acted during that 30 seconds after he told me that I had evaluated myself into a pink slip.       Who knows. 
It sure made me try harder while practicing for the rematch.

BTW, I do not send him Christmas Cards.



Major, Squadron Commander Stan-Eval..Instructor Pilot- Alaska Wing CAP
Retired Alaska Air Guard
Retired State of Alaska Law Dawg, Retired Vol Firefighter and EMT
Ex-Navy, Ex-Army,
Firearms Instructor
Alaskan Tailwheel and Floatplane CFI
http://www.floatplanealaska.com

Pace

I wish I had the option of using a DPE for my initial CFI.  Around here, you have to go to a specific ASI at the BTR FSDO unless he specifically authorizes you to go elsewhere.  Granted, that's all dependent on if you want to work as an instructor at my 141/142 program.  This guy's oral is 99.99999% of the time a minimum of 8 hours covering all aspects of the private pilot PTS and all materials referenced in the PTS, with special emphasis on the first 11 pages in the PTS (i.e., the introduction and how it applies to students, instructors, and DPEs).

And if you say the word "checkride" to him, you've already committed a cardinal sin.  It's practical exam.  Fun stuff...

My "practical exam" is set on May 4, and I'm going crazy preparing for it and trying to finish my last classes and still manage cum laude.
Lt Col, CAP

flyguy06

I am working on my CFI currently as well. Her ein Atlanta You have to go to the FAA but if they cant see you in a month they will assign you a DE to go to. Unfortunantly the DE's on their list have a reputation of being very tough. The Atlanta FSDO has a 90% first time failure rate.

mdickinson

I did mine with the FAA. It was free, as opposed to paying a DPE - but then again, DPE's work on Saturdays, and to take the checkride with an FAA inspector meant taking an extra vacation day from work. So costwise it was a wash.

Question 1: flynd94 hit the nail on the head with his answer: During the oral, you will of course be required to teach a technical lesson in addition to teaching a maneuver. In the airplane, you will teach a maneuver, including demonstrating it, talking the student through it, and correcting "common student errors" while all the time keeping your situational awareness and keeping the flight safe.

Go prepared with your library of reference material: your 3-ring binder full of lesson plans, your FAR/AIM, the private, commercial, and CFI PTS's, the POH for the aircraft you're using, your "Fundamentals of Instructing" book, the FAA private pilot textbook, and most of all, your well-read copy of "Flight Instructor FAA Practical Test Prep" by Irvin Gleim! That one book was the single best preparation tool I found.

I walked in to the oral with 2 milk crates full of books. When answering a question about, say, the intricacies of minimum altitude regulations ( 91.119 ), I find it confidence-building to turn to the relevant page while reciting the facts. It was good to be able to refer to the FARs, the AIM, the POH and the PTS while answering questions during the oral. If nothing else, perhaps the inspector saw the amount of material I had with me and decided I must be well prepared.

Question 2: Do you have to know 4 different types of hypoxia? I don't think so. You need to be able to answer questions to the level of detail given in the Gleim practical test prep book; no more than that. (That's one thing I love about that book!)

For example: you need to be able to rattle off ten symptoms of hypoxia, and (while reciting them), locate the page in the AIM or the Gleim book where the list of symptoms is written. Then check the page to see if you missed anything - kind of like using a checklist after you completed the steps on it, to see if you missed anything. The examiner will see that you know your stuff AND that you know where to find the reference.

Good luck!

flyguy06

Thanks. So they let you use a commercial book ? I thought all your reference materials had to be fromthe FAA. But then if youlook at it the commercial books are taken straight fromthe FAA books. Look at jeepperson CFI manual. Its the exact wording from the Aviation Instructors manual, just with colorful pictures.

Pace

Quote from: flyguy06 on May 22, 2007, 05:36:52 AM
So they let you use a commercial book ? I thought all your reference materials had to be fromthe FAA.

Check out paragraph 2 on page 3 of the Commercial PTS:
QuoteREFERENCE identifies the publication(s) that describe(s) the TASK.
Descriptions of TASKs are not included in these standards because this
information can be found in the current issue of the listed reference.
Publications other than those listed may be used for references if their
content conveys substantially the same meaning as the referenced
publications.
Lt Col, CAP