Where do we go from here?

Daniel · May 22, 2009, 02:54:30 AM

hey guys..

curiosity killed the cat

What happens after we take and pass all 6 Aerospace Dimensions tests?

MIKE · May 22, 2009, 03:01:45 AM

You start on the big book.

P.S: I hope you aren't banking AE tests.

Daniel · May 22, 2009, 03:05:07 AM

No 80% on both I took today

MIKE · May 22, 2009, 03:07:25 AM

If they were both AE tests then that is test banking, and that is strictly verboten.

Quote from: CAPR 52-162-2. b. (3) Test Banking. Cadets may not test beyond their next achievement. For example, a C/TSgt may take Achievement 5 tests, but not Achievement 6 tests. See Figure 2-1 for the Cadet Program's path of progression.

BrandonKea · May 22, 2009, 03:33:54 AM

So, if that does happen, what is he supposed to do, retake them later?

MIKE · May 22, 2009, 03:38:11 AM

Yep.

Daniel · May 22, 2009, 03:53:46 AM

I thought you meant banking as a vernacular for fail then retake

So am I just supposed to sit here praying to god for my next promotion?

BrandonKea · May 22, 2009, 03:55:30 AM

Well I don't think we ever heard, were both of your tests in fact AE tests?

Daniel · May 22, 2009, 03:56:12 AM

Quote from: BrandonKea on May 22, 2009, 03:55:30 AM
Well I don't think we ever heard, were both of your tests in fact AE tests?

Yup, I took Module 1 and 4.

BrandonKea · May 22, 2009, 03:58:34 AM

Quote from: Daniel L on May 22, 2009, 03:56:12 AM
Quote from: BrandonKea on May 22, 2009, 03:55:30 AM
Well I don't think we ever heard, were both of your tests in fact AE tests?

Yup, I took Module 1 and 4.

Well it doesn't sound as though you intentionally broke regs here. I would put it through your chain of command that you were told you couldn't bank tests (reference the regulation if need be,) then tell them you want to use one of the module tests for your current achievement, and when it comes time for your next promotion, you'll retest.

Daniel · May 22, 2009, 04:00:45 AM

Well I'm kinda screwed.

(Just kinda.)

I'm on 21st Century Leadership Chapter 5
And I've taken two modules.

why does my Squadron Commander keep allowing me to test?

BrandonKea · May 22, 2009, 04:03:55 AM

Quote from: Daniel L on May 22, 2009, 04:00:45 AM
Well I'm kinda screwed.

(Just kinda.)

I'm on 21st Century Leadership Chapter 5
And I've taken two modules.

why does my Squadron Commander keep allowing me to test?

I'm confused.

Are you a C/TSgt testing for C/MSgt and have only taken 2 AE Mods?

Daniel · May 22, 2009, 04:05:22 AM

No I'm an Airman

I've taken five leadership tests, and two modules.

Eclipse · May 22, 2009, 04:09:17 AM

You unit's TCO and / or DCC should really know better.

BrandonKea · May 22, 2009, 04:10:03 AM

Yeeeeah, you're gonna want to stop testing...

MIKE hit the nail on the head with the 52-16 citation. You aren't supposed to test past your current acheivement. So, as a C/Amn, you should be taking Leadership Chapter 2, and ANY AE module.

Your squadron commander may be unfamiliar with these rules. Your DCC or Testing officer SHOULD know, however may also be unaware. Just let them know about the regs stating you can't test past your current achievement.

(At least you're motivated though, kudos to you on that. Nothing says you can't read ahead and still learn the stuff...)

Daniel · May 22, 2009, 04:13:13 AM

Well our squadron leader is our DCC.

It would help if he didn't try to keep the cadets together in promotion status

It feels like I spend forever waiting.

BrandonKea · May 22, 2009, 04:14:46 AM

You get held back so you all promote at once?

Daniel · May 22, 2009, 04:16:06 AM

It seems like it

LtCol057 · May 22, 2009, 04:21:41 AM

Does anyone else see a problem with this scenario? Unfortunately, I know of a squadron in my area that is allegedly doing the same thing.

BrandonKea · May 22, 2009, 04:35:29 AM

Quote from: LtCol057 on May 22, 2009, 04:21:41 AM
Does anyone else see a problem with this scenario? Unfortunately, I know of a squadron in my area that is allegedly doing the same thing.

I see the problem, but I also see it as an education issue. Remember, you used to be able to bank tests back in the day, so many DCC's and TCO's may not know that anything changed.

Daniel · May 22, 2009, 04:35:52 AM

Well what am I to do to fix this exactly?

I mean I can't exactly tell him

"I've taken too many tests, and I need promoted to take more."

Thats just wrong

Can someone volunteer to listen to me blow off some steam over private message for a few..

BrandonKea · May 22, 2009, 04:38:25 AM

Quote from: Daniel L on May 22, 2009, 04:35:52 AM
Well what am I to do to fix this exactly?

I mean I can't exactly tell him

"I've taken too many tests, and I need promoted to take more."

Thats just wrong

I wouldn't quite word it like that, but yes, you've taken too many tests, and you do need to be testing ONLY for the Achievements you're working on. Just tell him that the regulation states something contrary to what has been occurring.

NC Hokie · May 22, 2009, 04:43:17 AM

Quote from: Daniel L on May 22, 2009, 04:35:52 AM
Well what am I to do to fix this exactly?

I mean I can't exactly tell him

"I've taken too many tests, and I need promoted to take more."

Thats just wrong

Letting things stand as they are is "just wrong." Inform your CC that you have learned that regulations no longer allow test banking (be ready with the 52-16 cite given earlier in this thread) and ask to retake the tests as you progress through your future achievements.

SarDragon · May 22, 2009, 05:32:39 AM

Quote from: BrandonKea on May 22, 2009, 04:35:29 AM
Quote from: LtCol057 on May 22, 2009, 04:21:41 AM
Does anyone else see a problem with this scenario? Unfortunately, I know of a squadron in my area that is allegedly doing the same thing.

I see the problem, but I also see it as an education issue. Remember, you used to be able to bank tests back in the day, so many DCC's and TCO's may not know that anything changed.

And just exactly where did it say that? I just finished looking at the prior version and it said nothing either pro or con. Given the prevailing general policy of "if it doesn't say you can, then don't", I would say that it wasn't permitted even back then. I never allowed it in my unit prior to the latest version of the reg.

BrandonKea · May 22, 2009, 05:44:06 AM

Let me rephrase that then. It never used to be forbidden, so many squadrons (mine included) never said boo to stop it.

(I was looking for my old 52-16 too

)

USADOD · May 28, 2009, 07:50:51 AM

Quote from: Daniel L on May 22, 2009, 04:05:22 AM
No I'm an Airman

I've taken five leadership tests, and two modules.

DCC? that's a No, No.

Although I must imagine it must be nice to sit around with time in grade. I'm just curious if all the test are dated correctly or pre-dated to meet CAP Regulation Minimum promotion limits.

gistek · May 28, 2009, 07:08:34 PM

Questions of this sort should go up your chain of command, but the cadet staff is not likely to have the answers. I would start with your Flight Commander. Write down your question(s), keep a copy for yourself, and ask, "Sir, could you clarify something for me? I was looking through CAPR52-16 and on page 14, in section 2-2(b)(3) it states that cadets may not test beyond their next achievement. Does this mean I will have to take some of the Leadership and Aerospace tests again?"

Before asking this question, you might also read CAPR52-16 section 2-4a. Based on some posts, you may have been due promotions that you did not receive. OR your commander may have recorded the promotions, but has not yet awarded you the pins that go with it. You might then have two issues you would like clarified.

You can ask questions about promotion ceremony dates – after all, your parents might want to attend. You can also ask what the official date of your last promotion was, as this will help you plan for your next one. If you believe you are due for a promotion, mention it and ask what you are missing. For this, if possible, have a written list of the dates of your tests, activities, meetings attended, and any other requirements.

Be prepared for an, "I will have to look into that," type response. Offer a sincere, "Thank you, sir," and wait for an answer. This might take a week or two. Remember, your Flight Commander will have to present it to the C/DC or C/Commander who then takes it to the DCC.

It is possible that your DCC has recorded your promotions but not presented the insignia. If this is the case, you can ask your Flight Commander to relay your disappointment in the situation. Then work hard to get to C/Commander yourself where you can help make policy changes of this sort.

capchiro · May 28, 2009, 07:28:09 PM

I'm confused. Are you getting promoted every two months?? If you do testing one night a month, then a leadership test and an AE test should be about avery two months?? Are you all testing more than once a month? Are you allowed to take more than one test a night?? Are you not being promoted due to no openings in the squadron command structure?? If so, that is not right. Are you not being promoted because you are not "fit" for promotion? Somewhere somebody has a boo-boo and as a cadet, you have the right to know what is going on. The REG's are there to make the program standard from squadron to squadron and there is no wiggle room for self-interpretation. If you need, e-mail me off the board and I will see if I can figure out what is going on for you.