"RESCUE TEAM FINDS A NEW MEANS OF SEARCH: BY HORSE"

[Capt Rivera]

Another blog entry for you guys to digest:
http://muleequestrian.multiply.com/journal/item/216/Nostalgia

The founder of a CAP Mountain equestrian SAR team blogs on his experience... This one mentions both good and bad things... unfortunately bad... 

It also features this really cool picture:



I open anything he mentioned up for discussion and hope I even see some GOOD comments posted to his blog...

Edit: URL is now above... sorry

[Stonewall]

The horse needs a uniform. 

Like the one I put on my dog...



Can't see why SAR teams couldn't use horses in certain areas.  I think it'd be pretty expensive, but I guess those folks who are in CAP and happen to have horses already would be the ones to do it.

[sardak]

If the link to the blog is buried in the message, I missed it.
Thanks for posting the link.

Also, there was a CAPTalk discussion on mounted (equestrian) SAR in CAP here:

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2356.0

Maybe the blog is for one of the contributors on that thread.

Mike

[Capt Rivera]

Sorry link is now in original post

If the link to the blog is buried in the message, I missed it.

Also, there was a CAPTalk discussion on mounted (equestrian) SAR in CAP here:

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2356.0

Maybe the blog is for one of the contributors on that thread.

Mike

[jeders]

Ok, so here are a couple of questions. First, is he still a member of CAP? If he's still a member of CAP, why not try to get the program going again and learn form his mistakes from the first time around? Also, did the whole squadron fold after he was ousted, or just his MSAR program?

Now for the things that aren't really related. The blue boonie? I didn't even realize they made them. Also, the newspaper article is incorrect in saying that this is the second MSAR program. It may be the second at the time of the article, but CAP used to have a MSAR unit in Washington Wing during WWII.

In places like NC or CA where there are lots of places with mountains and such where cars are unusable and going by foot would take too long, this is a great idea. I've thought of ways to do it myself, but being in Texas have no use for it.

[Flying Pig]

I could see it in Ca.  My department has a horse mounted SAR team.

[bosshawk]

My county, which is adjacent to Flying Pig's, also has a mounted posse that is part of the SAR team.  In fact, my wife is a member of the posse while I fly for the SAR team.

Some of you folks may think that horses are only for mountains, but think of this: how much faster can a horse cover ground than a human on foot?  A whole bunch faster and with better endurance.

I don't happen to ride(personal choice), but I do feed and care for 11 of the beasts: my wife happens to raise horses.

[IceNine]

I didn't read the article so I may be saying things in there but,

There is a mounted team here in Illinois that are using horses as scent animals and teaching them air scent and (that other one??) for tracking

Seems like a good idea to me, plus I can fit a lot more donut its in a saddle bag than a ruck sack

[Capt Rivera]

Ok, so here are a couple of questions. First, is he still a member of CAP? If he's still a member of CAP, why not try to get the program going again and learn form his mistakes from the first time around? Also, did the whole squadron fold after he was ousted, or just his MSAR program?

Now for the things that aren't really related. The blue boonie? I didn't even realize they made them. Also, the newspaper article is incorrect in saying that this is the second MSAR program. It may be the second at the time of the article, but CAP used to have a MSAR unit in Washington Wing during WWII.

In places like NC or CA where there are lots of places with mountains and such where cars are unusable and going by foot would take too long, this is a great idea. I've thought of ways to do it myself, but being in Texas have no use for it.

It seems news articles have at least one inaccuracy every time when they talk about CAP.... The best written ones only mess up on the % of SAR we do... seems we can't figure that out ourselves though. I usually see 95% but often see 90% and every once and a blue moon lower....

The squadron is still in place but the MSAR portion is long gone... it folded shortly after he left... he said he wish he developed it enough that it would have stayed the course after his departure but it did not. I believe he said the person who forcefully took things over wanted to turn it into a riding club.

He is no longer a member and has been out for about 2 years. (if I remember right)

He worked with 2 squadrons in his wing that "had the good ol boy system" instead of the right person for the job system. He has given up on CAP and says he is completely closed to the idea of even checking out another squadron.

He has however offered up everything he created for the program he made and is making it open to redistribution and editing.

From my communications with him it seems we lost a valuable asset due to a cluster of bad apples in the same 2 squadrons. At least he is still willing to share his resources and probably wouldn't mind questions that arose from people trying to implement the training/program he developed. I want to say that those follow up questions etc over time might be enough to have him check into CAP again sometime in the not so near future, but of course thats speculation.

[RiverAux]

I usually see 95% but often see 90% and every once and a blue moon lower....

It does change every year depending on how the AFRCC tasked them that year. 

[Capt Rivera]

I usually see 95% but often see 90% and every once and a blue moon lower....

It does change every year depending on how the AFRCC tasked them that year. 

Haha, I know that... I mean unless it changes monthly or sometimes weekly, then one source or another is wrong. [As in where 2 or more writers have different info on us while writing about us in the same month or sometimes the same week and or day.]

[sardak]

It's not the 90 or 95% that's the problem.  The problem is that most articles state that CAP performs 9x% of the SAR in the US or something to that effect.  Not the correct statement that we perform 9x% of the SAR tasked by AFRCC, which is a lot less than 9x% of the SAR in the US.  The misstatement is even in one of the national commander's letters on the CAP website.

Now back on topic.  Many MSAR teams turn into more of a riding club than a SAR team.  Some don't get tasked that often, and practicing SAR skills instead of equestrian skills is not what many riders want to do.

Mike

[CAPrider]

Horses can be used as a wonderful tool in search...IF they are used safely and by trained persons. Just as 'the dog teams' are not THE only tool, or the planes and crews THE only tool, so the horse teams have a place and a use.

To cover the ground fast is not necessarily the best reason to use the horse. (Easy to miss clues going too fast, no?) But it is a higher platform to search from, yet lower than a plane. In addition, as a searcher on horseback IF you are working as a team with your mount, you may pick up indicators from the horse of 'things to check more thoroughly' from the horse's body language.

Yes, I am a horse person. Have worked with horses for many many years. I am also a certified NASAR SARTech II and am Ground team member and leader with CAP. Have gone through Henry County Illinois' Mounted Patrol clinic. IF and when there is a need for mounted SAR in Iowa, we are ready to 'meld' in with ground teams, etc. as needed. But truly, there is not a huge need for that resource very often.

Besides, it gives me a good excuse to ride and practice mounted search on horseback....and any horse nut like me likes that kind of excuse!

[Flying Pig]

I say aircraft and horses should just work together

[Hawk200]

I say aircraft and horses should just work together

That's funny. Reminds me of the stuff I heard about in my Guard unit about someone wanting to sling horses under a Blackhawk. The conversation degraded into some rather twisted hilarity.

[Nathan]

This isn't that new of an idea. I know my squadron has been in the process of getting together a horse SAR team for a while, but it's been stalled since only one member (the one who owns the horses) actually knows how to ride them.

[CAPrider]

You're right - horses and planes and ground teams all should (and can) work together toward the same goal! (And in some cases, helicopters and snowmobiles and ATV's and dog teams. - mostly different agencies, though) Just takes the effort, training, and know how. ("Just"?)

The idea of slings under Blackhawks reminds me of what my mom said to me when I mentioned Civil Air Patrol and horse SAR in the same sentence. "How do they get the horses into the planes?" I just about laughed hard enough to fall out of my chair, especially since all I could visualize was the Cessna 172 with hooves sticking out of the back seat.....

[Flying Pig]

Ok....now that right there sounds like a great photoshop idea!

[Hobbsh1]

I've been talking to The Mule the last couple of days.  He is going to send me his resources and material when gets into town again.  He has an excellent Blog, everyone should go and check it out.  http://muleequestrian.multiply.com/
Here is the last message I got from him today

Also, I did check out your CAPTALK link today. Although I'm no longer interested in CAP, I really do want to see MSAR take off as a program in CAP. Since I'm not a member I don't think I can post anything to that page. I don't care who gets credit for the idea, don't even care whether or not I'm even mentioned at all. If it's something you folks can use, then I'm willing to send any information to anyone who wants it. I'll have to see how much it'll cost to make copies and how much it will cost to send them to wherever they need to go. I'm not interested in selling the information either... I'll offer it to anyone who asks.
As to the question posed on how useful horse teams would be in any area outside the mountains - think of this. A human being in reasonable shape can carry about 30 lbs of gear of they weigh about 150 - 175 lbs. Anyone in CAP knows the list for a Ground Team Member can get heavy quickly. A 1000 lb horse can carry up to 200 lbs of gear if the horse is in reasonable condition. Part of the gear we used to carry was an automated defibrillator. Not for use at a crash scene so much as used for some of the search party members. It's appalling at how overweight a lot of folks are in the SAR community. I've heard of instances where a searcher overexerted himself and had cardio difficulties as a result. How many 5 gallon water cans can you put in the field as water refill points for your ground teams ? Water weighs 8 lbs to the gallon - I carried 4 on one of my pack mules.
With a mount, your eyes are suddenly 8 - 10 feet off the ground. You can see above the tall grasses for search clues. You can spread a horse team wider in open terrain as searchers in a line. Often a lost child will become frightened of a search team and hide from you, thinking they'll get in trouble with their parents because they got lost. Most children love horses and using one will increase the chance the lost child will not hide from you, rather they'll come out to see your horse.
MSAR is a powerful recruiting tool. It raises awareness of your individual unit, and can bring in folks who wouldn't normally consider CAP.

If you want to post anything I said to the CAPTALK page along with my email address, feel free to do so. I'll answer any responses I get, and do whatever I can to help you guys out.

[RRLE]

You might want to look at Mounted Search and Rescue: Unit Websites Worldwide. That is a links page to various Mounted SAR units.

This is their Home Page (MSAR).

You might also want to read the articles on Effective Use of the Mounted SAR Resource web site.