Who has been the youngest wing commander?

Started by Cindi, February 21, 2014, 10:22:03 PM

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FW

Quote from: Private Investigator on February 23, 2014, 06:21:31 PM
It depends on what is the benchmark of a good Wing Commander is. Talent is just that, talent and talent goes a long way. Some people you meet you know will be a Wing Commander and maybe a National Commander one day. Others are just that. "Others".

Two ways to approach the Wing King job, one is to continue with the staff you have and express your "Commanders Intent". Two, is fire everyone and for example if you were SQCC of SQ4, bring your SQ4 Staff in as your 'new' Wing Staff.  8)

It is difficult to do that when the typical RIWG squadron staff is two or three individuals plus the commander and deputy.  How I understand things there; everyone who has a position of responsibility in a squadron is also a member of wing staff.  80 or so members can only go so far before they get burned out.  Can it be done? of course.

I understand things are getting back on track now. 

Quote from: ZigZag911 on February 23, 2014, 08:04:47 PM
During Col Hayden's tenure as NER CC he always relied on his wing CC review board...to the best of my knowledge, in every instance he presented the board's recommendations to the National CC in the order he was given them (top 3).

He also spoke to the top 3 candidates (per the review board's ranking) personally before bringing the matter to the National CC.

All of this is public knowledge in NER, at least for those who had any reason to know or care (wing & region staff folks).

He instituted these practices when he took over in August 2009...in the immediate aftermath, as you may recall, of Pineda's shenanigans in appointing wing and region commanders.

All that the sad case of the former RI wing CC, Maj Emerick, really shows is that any system, however well intentioned, is subject to human error. Evidently Emrick really impressed the review board (or at least a majority of it)...so much so that they decided, erroneously in hindsight (which of course is 20/20!) that his youth and inexperience would be more than balanced by his energy and enthusiasm.

Unfortunately for the wing, the wing commander and CAP, it did not work out that way.

Finally, I have it on good authority that, during Emerick's tenure as wing CC, RI WG and its wing commander were repeatedly offered mentoring, including the temporary assignment of experienced personnel to guide their own people.

These offers were made by NER and several of RI's neighboring wings.

In every instance, the response was, as I understand, "No thanks, we can handle it".

In fact, they could not.

Pride goeth before a fall.

"Pineda's Shinanagins"? He was out of the picture by 2007. Selection boards were the rule for years, and region commanders ended up picking the best possible candidate, not necessarily the one picked by the selection board. "Politics" were always part of the equation. It still is!

The NER region commander made a decision; the best one at the time.  When things were going wrong, the offer of help should have been mandated; not made as a suggestion. It is the region commander's responsibility to insure wing commanders do their job. Col Hayden was in office for 2 years before appointing this individual for the job.  By then, he should have had the experience to realize what was needed, and to make the necessary changes before disaster struck.

If a wing commander does not recognize their weaknesses, shame on them; If the region commander does not take corrective action in the proper time, shame on him.  I've known wing commanders lasting just weeks.  This situation was, to say the least, a sad time for the wing, NER, and CAP.  Youth and talent are one thing; maturity and wisdom are another.  A successful wing commander does not need to be young; they do need the rest. 8).

Eclipse

Quote from: FW on February 24, 2014, 12:52:07 AM
"Pineda's Shinanagins"? He was out of the picture by 2007. Selection boards were the rule for years, and region commanders ended up picking the best possible candidate, not necessarily the one picked by the selection board. "Politics" were always part of the equation. It still is!

HWSRN was National Commander until Oct 2007.

Relieved of duty 2 Oct after being suspended in August.

"That Others May Zoom"

a2capt

Pineda was removed 2-Oct, 2007. Three years and some months, well before Boards would have met for a June 2011 appointment.

Mitchell 1969

Quote from: Eclipse on February 23, 2014, 04:12:32 AM
Correcting the corrections:

Per the 2014 Legislative Day Newsletter: http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/RI_Newsletter_12528B4C69F45.pdf

RIWG has

82 Senior Members
82 Cadets

10 vehicles
2 Planes


They could pretty much move the entire Wing in corporate vehicles in 2 trips.
_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.

Cindi

Quote
They could pretty much move the entire Wing in corporate vehicles in 2 trips.

Seems like in Rhode Island, they could pretty much walk to any place they needed to be.  >:D

Mitchell 1969

Quote from: Cindi on February 24, 2014, 02:20:44 AM
Quote
They could pretty much move the entire Wing in corporate vehicles in 2 trips.

Seems like in Rhode Island, they could pretty much walk to any place they needed to be.  >:D

Even better, then.  They can walk, use the vans for the luggage.
_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.

FW

Quote from: Eclipse on February 24, 2014, 01:12:44 AM
Quote from: FW on February 24, 2014, 12:52:07 AM
"Pineda's Shinanagins"? He was out of the picture by 2007. Selection boards were the rule for years, and region commanders ended up picking the best possible candidate, not necessarily the one picked by the selection board. "Politics" were always part of the equation. It still is!

HWSRN was National Commander until Oct 2007.

Relieved of duty 2 Oct after being suspended in August.

Thanks for giving the exact date.  I remember it quite well, however the point made is "HWSRN" had nothing to do with the selection process, or what followed with this case.  "HE" was long gone by the time the appointment, term, and resignation of Maj Emerick as RIWG/CC took place.

We really have to stop blaming long gone demons and begin to really understand the reasons why we still deal with these problems.  We should have fixed "this" years ago. I guess things are still being repeated...


Cindi

#47
Quote from: FW on February 24, 2014, 03:59:32 AM
Thanks for giving the exact date.  I remember it quite well, however the point made is "HWSRN" had nothing to do with the selection process, or what followed with this case.  "HE" was long gone by the time the appointment, term, and resignation of Maj Emerick as RIWG/CC took place.

We really have to stop blaming long gone demons and begin to really understand the reasons why we still deal with these problems.  We should have fixed "this" years ago. I guess things are still being repeated...

Speaking of dates, CAP had a chance to go in a new direction on August 18, 2011 in Louisville, Kentucky but the people that could of made it happen were just interested in some chat room postings. Sad.

Eclipse

#48
Quote from: FW on February 24, 2014, 03:59:32 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on February 24, 2014, 01:12:44 AM
Quote from: FW on February 24, 2014, 12:52:07 AM
"Pineda's Shinanagins"? He was out of the picture by 2007. Selection boards were the rule for years, and region commanders ended up picking the best possible candidate, not necessarily the one picked by the selection board. "Politics" were always part of the equation. It still is!

HWSRN was National Commander until Oct 2007.
Relieved of duty 2 Oct after being suspended in August.

Thanks for giving the exact date.  I remember it quite well, however the point made is "HWSRN" had nothing to do with the selection process, or what followed with this case.  "HE" was long gone by the time the appointment, term, and resignation of Maj Emerick as RIWG/CC took place.

We really have to stop blaming long gone demons and begin to really understand the reasons why we still deal with these problems.  We should have fixed "this" years ago. I guess things are still being repeated...

^ That may be the case, and you were certainly closer to it then most of the posters here, but
the ramifications and ripples of his tenure lived on well passed his being voted off the island.

There was chaos and disquiet in Regions and Wings all over the country as people dropped back into
factions and scores were settled, wrongs righted, and more then a few resorted to Machiavellian practices.

NHQ is still referencing issues from that time in documents as the name and legacy is sandblasted off of uniforms and regulations.

When you consider the glacial way CAP makes changes, we aren't yet quite clear of that runway yet.

"That Others May Zoom"

a2capt

Quote from: Cindi on February 24, 2014, 04:07:47 AMSpeaking of dates, CAP had a chance to go in a new direction on August 18, 2011 in Louisville, Kentucky but the people that could of made it happen were just interested in some chat room postings. Sad.
Oh, the irony.

FW

^^ The Machiavellian schemes of the last 9 years have created an environment which caused a major shift in the way we now do business. Until these new ways are really established, we won't get clear of that runway.

Cindi brings up a good point. We've had a few chances to make positive changes, some have already been made. Now the BoG will insure we continue on a successful path.  :angel:

Cindi

#51
Quote from: FW on February 24, 2014, 10:49:30 AM
^^ The Machiavellian schemes of the last 9 years have created an environment which caused a major shift in the way we now do business. Until these new ways are really established, we won't get clear of that runway.

Cindi brings up a good point. We've had a few chances to make positive changes, some have already been made. Now the BoG will insure we continue on a successful path.  :angel:

Between you an me Fred we need to put the Air Force back in charge. Civil Air Patrol should be in the Air Force chain of command with the Air Force appointing an Air Force officer to run the show. You can still have the BOG or Wing Kings handle the corporate side of things (or even better ditch the CAP Corporation).  But the actual operating side should be under the direction of an Air Force officer and his staff. I remember when Maj. Gen. Walter ""Boom Boom Benney"" Bennett Putnam 1916-2010 was the National Commander. The seniors feared "Boom Boom Benney" but the cadets loved him. If you were a cadet and lucky enough to get a ride in his DC-3, he might call you into the cockpit to take the controls. Put an Air Force guy like "Boom Boom" in charge of the hen house and the roosters will get back in line in a hurry!

RIP Benney!



Cindi

#52
It's a bird, its a plane...it's "Boom Boom Benney" flying in for a wing inspection!




Eclipse

#53
Quote from: Cindi on February 24, 2014, 06:55:58 PMYou can still have the BOG or Wing Kings handle the corporate side of things

And which parts are those, exactly?

Also, how is a military commander going to have any more success herding volunteer cats then a civilian one?

Raise the bar?  Check?

Enforce the regs as written?  Check?

Lose 1/3rd of the membership the first 6 months?  Yep.

Just because the person "in charge" is carrying a CAC isn't going to change the G-A-S-F at the unit level.

Reboot CAP? I'm there.   Said so many times.

If you can just show me where we are going to get the replacements for 1/3rd+ of the membership who
decide they "didn't join the Army", I'll start making calls.

"That Others May Zoom"

Cindi

#54
Quote from: Eclipse on February 24, 2014, 07:32:55 PM
Quote from: Cindi on February 24, 2014, 06:55:58 PMYou can still have the BOG or Wing Kings handle the corporate side of things

And which parts are those, exactly?

Also, how is a military commander going to have any more success herding volunteer cats then a civilian one?

Raise the bar?  Check?

Enforce the regs as written?  Check?

Lose 1/3rd of the membership the first 6 months.  Yep.

Just because the person "in charge" is carrying a CAC isn't going to change the G-A-S-F at the unit level.

Reboot CAP? I'm there.   Said so many times.

If you can just show me where we are going to get the replacements for 1/3rd+ of the membership who
decide they "didn't join the Army", I'll start making calls.

Its obvious I don't have all the answers. Going back to the "good ole days" is probably not a solution, just wishful thinking. But I got to sneak in some hysterical history.

FW

Before 1994, CAP was pretty much "controlled" by Ma Blue. All of the employees at NHq were AF civilians or military. The EX was AF as well.  We had a great network of CAP-USAF staff to provide oversight  and assistance to the membership. 

Times and budgets have changed significantly. We can't go back, so we must work with what we have. What we have, btw, is pretty good. We just need someone to know how to use it properly. Where that person comes from is not as important as where we can go as an Organization.  I'm an optimist about this.

a2capt

That. Yes. AF control will never happen again like it used to be.

At least the structure has a bit more protection from clowning around like Pineda was going to pull.

... and I wouldn't discount those who seemed just interested in some "chat room postings"..

Phil Hirons, Jr.

A few bullet points from someone within RI Wing (for most of it anyway)

  • I've known Maj Emerick since he was c/SSgt or c/TSgt Emerick when I rejoined CAP as a senior at the same squadron.

  • He made his Mitchell in 19 months.

  • He was given opportunities as a c/2d Lt by RI Wing that would normally be reserved for late Phase 3 or Phase 4 cadets in larger wings.

  • He worked as a Flight Instructor and later as a private pilot for an old money family in RI. (for those wondering about the 2000 hours)

  • His promotion to Capt at age 21 was based on his CFII rating. (I processed the paperwork for the Wing CC).

  • There were 4 candidates for the Wing CC position. I was 1 of the 4 but had been serving in MA then CT Wings for almost 2 years.

  • The only way I would have returned to RIWG at that point was if Maj Emerick or I had gotten the position. He asked me to return to RIWG and rebuild the non-existent IG program.

  • During his CC term his work responsibilities for that same family increased dramatically.

  • RI Wing was a mess when he took command.
Maj Emerick was an outstanding cadet and is an excellent CAP officer. I consider him a friend and I hope he finds a place to continue in CAP.

Eclipse

He made Mitchell and then stopped?

Also, some of those bullet points could be seen as negatives, especially in hindsight.

"That Others May Zoom"

Phil Hirons, Jr.

Quote from: Eclipse on February 24, 2014, 09:28:15 PM
He made Mitchell and then stopped?

Also, some of those bullet points could be seen as negatives, especially in hindsight.

That is correct about the Mitchell. I had a running joke with him and another cadet (who is now an A-10 driver) that the single pip on their collar kept telling me it was lonely.

I tried to keep that list to the facts. I assume you are mostly talking about bullet 3.