Medical squadrons

[wuthierb]

Hey guys,

I am wondering if any of your squadrons are medical squadrons. My squadron is doing this new thing where we are making everyone become CPR certified. We are also teaching EMT classes to a select group of cadets who are interested. Which is financially supported by a nearby hospital. We set aside time in our meetings to teach the squadron about the human body and we are dissecting animals during meetings.We also do this camp twice a year where we camp out for a week and do some practice for first aid and more EMT training. Do any of you guys do this stuff at your squadron too?

Thanks so much!

[Jaison009]

Be prepared for pitch fork and torches on this one...

[lordmonar]

The training is good.

The concept of becoming a medical squadron is against CAP policy.

Wish that policy would/could change.....but bottom line is that it is a legal and insurance nightmare that CAP had decided not to pursue.

[SarDragon]

First, welcome to CAP Talk.

Second, double posting is discouraged. Everybody sees all the posts, so having something two different places adds nothing to productive discussion.

Third, y'all should thoroughly read the following regulations:

para 4.c. 1) Identifying prefix - a short identifier, preferably associated with location (example: Shamrock, Dayton, Hot Springs, Midville, etc.). DO NOT use names such as "Black Sheep," "Flying Tigers," etc., or terms descriptive of major functions such as "Communications," "Jeep," or "Rescue," etc.

All units are supposed to participating in all three missions of CAP, and unit specialization is discouraged.

Health Services Officer

Operation of the CAP Health Service program, para 1-6. Medical Care Policy.
a. CAP is not a health care provider, and CAP members are not permitted to act in the role of health care providers during the performance of official CAP duties. Consequently, CAP members are not permitted to function as pharmacists, physicians, nurses, or in any other role that would permit the administration and dispensing of drugs under various federal and state laws and regulations.

[LSThiker]

we are dissecting animals during meetings.

Pretty sure that dissecting animals is not part of EMT training.  Nevertheless, make sure that all animal use laws are followed, which I can guarantee is not probably happening at a CAP squadron.

[PHall]

we are dissecting animals during meetings.

Pretty sure that dissecting animals is not part of EMT training.  Nevertheless, make sure that all animal use laws are followed, which I can guarantee is not probably happening at a CAP squadron.

Hey, maybe it's a school squadron that meets at a school and has use of the science classroom.
You never know!

[LSThiker]

Hey, maybe it's a school squadron that meets at a school and has use of the science classroom.
You never know!

That is what I am hoping.

[Pace]

Goes right in with the ES mission. We can supply our own cadavers.   

Seriously though, medical squadrons es no bueno in CAP. As a medical professional, I love the idea. Under current policy, not gonna happen. As stated, be careful about dissecting animals. Lots of laws associated with that. I am curious if your higher headquarters are aware of this and if this was approved above the squadron level.

Edited for poor spelling r/t fat fingers -Pace

[wuthierb]

Everything has to be approved by national before we can do anything remotely medical and I can guarantee that all animal use laws are being followed. 

[wuthierb]

Sorry didn't mean to cause a fight just wondering if there was any hope for it . Clearly not.

[Flying Pig]

Let me look into my crystal ball........ Your squadron suddenly found itself being run by a parent thrust into the position for lack of any other volunteers and that parent had a med background.

[Mitchell 1969]

Everything has to be approved by national before we can do anything remotely medical and I can guarantee that all animal use laws are being followed.

Which begs the question: DID NHQ approve this?

And, another question - is this in addition to, or instead of, things such as aerospace education, drill and ceremonies, character development, etc?

[abdsp51]

There is something with this entire picture that makes my spidey sense tingle....

[Holding Pattern]

My squadron is doing this new thing where we are making everyone become CPR certified.

Ignoring the rest, because everyone else has already hopped on it, I'd like to highlight this.

In my opinion, all squadrons should do this.

We've had a trainer (former CAP member) that has given us a significant training discount, and so we do annual CPR training. This is a good thing.

[whatevah]

Full-time EMT here... Sending cadets through an EMT program is pretty stupid given the costs involved ($500-1000 depending on area) and that most jurisdictions won't issue a license/certification to folks under 18. We all know that when that age happens, most cadets disappear for one reason or another. That's not even taking into account that we're not allowed to practice in the full scope by CAP regs.  If anything, give everybody a basic CPR course and put your active EMS guys through an EMR/first responder course, but a full EMT course is a huge waste of time and money.

X2 the comments about a specialized unit being a not-so-good idea. Something doesn't sound right here...

[LSThiker]

My squadron is doing this new thing where we are making everyone become CPR certified.

Ignoring the rest, because everyone else has already hopped on it, I'd like to highlight this.

In my opinion, all squadrons should do this.

I encourage those that want a bit more training than basic first aid to look into either wilderness first aid or wilderness first responder. 

[Spam]

Concur on the expense angle - but it does happen. We have one surgeon and a couple of GTL RNs, who have been very inspirational. I had a cadet officer down here complete EMT a few years ago who was motivated by her service as a GTM on actual missions, and she went on to develop herself (at her own expense). She is in med school now, second year I think (go, A-Team)!

V/R
Spam

[ALORD]

CAP has severe allergies to almost all things medical. ( I would suggest 50mg Benedryl, IM, followed by a course of Prednisone unless Epinephrine was required first, but the proper-CAP  thing to do would be to watch CAP die hideously from anaphylaxis, while clutching the CAPR's to your chest and repeating over and over " This is what the book says I should do!")

I suggest that if a Squadron as group had such an interest, they would be better served, and more free to pursue that goal, by "Dual Chartering" as a "Venturing Crew" under BSA. Most Cadets could easily manage the First Responder certification ( I would almost bet you we have a few instructors who would do the training for free if you fed them and  treated them nicely) EMT is a term that means very different things in different jurisdictions, and can range from EMT-"basic" ( About the same as a first responder) to EMT-P ( "Paramedic") with a range of various permissions and trainings in between. In California, there are "crash course" EMT-Basic classes that last two weeks. First Responder and a valid "Professional Rescuer" CPR cert are the usual prerequisites, as is passing a TB test. ( Study very hard for that test)

Even if we rounded up an institution that could certify EMTs, there are age limits ( Strangely enough, 16-year-old cadets will not be issued an Emergency Vehicle Operator's Endorsement to their driver's license. Your local National Guard group may be willing to conduct unofficial training if treated properly ( I suggest bribes with donuts and sending the prettiest CAP members to ask) Of course, if a State or County would certify a Cadet as an EMT, they could wear the badge, and cadets love flair and bling on their uniforms. Perhaps we can allow personnel who have the First Responder" to wear the EMT badge with a red circle and line through it across the Caduceus? It would be nicer than the CPR patch, which looks like it belongs on a Hippie or a Red Cross Volunteer.

[Spaceman3750]

CAP has severe allergies to almost all things medical. ( I would suggest 50mg Benedryl, IM, followed by a course of Prednisone unless Epinephrine was required first, but the proper-CAP  thing to do would be to watch CAP die hideously from anaphylaxis, while clutching the CAPR's to your chest and repeating over and over " This is what the book says I should do!")

I suggest that if a Squadron as group had such an interest, they would be better served, and more free to pursue that goal, by "Dual Chartering" as a "Venturing Crew" under BSA. Most Cadets could easily manage the First Responder certification ( I would almost bet you we have a few instructors who would do the training for free if you fed them and  treated them nicely) EMT is a term that means very different things in different jurisdictions, and can range from EMT-"basic" ( About the same as a first responder) to EMT-P ( "Paramedic") with a range of various permissions and trainings in between. In California, there are "crash course" EMT-Basic classes that last two weeks. First Responder and a valid "Professional Rescuer" CPR cert are the usual prerequisites, as is passing a TB test. ( Study very hard for that test)

Even if we rounded up an institution that could certify EMTs, there are age limits ( Strangely enough, 16-year-old cadets will not be issued an Emergency Vehicle Operator's Endorsement to their driver's license. Your local National Guard group may be willing to conduct unofficial training if treated properly ( I suggest bribes with donuts and sending the prettiest CAP members to ask) Of course, if a State or County would certify a Cadet as an EMT, they could wear the badge, and cadets love flair and bling on their uniforms. Perhaps we can allow personnel who have the First Responder" to wear the EMT badge with a red circle and line through it across the Caduceus? It would be nicer than the CPR patch, which looks like it belongs on a Hippie or a Red Cross Volunteer.

The only type of medical aid that should be administered by CAP personnel or by any other person at CAP's request is reasonable treatment deemed necessary to save a life or prevent human suffering.  This treatment must be executed by a person qualified to attempt such medical care within their skill level.

In other words, you may act up to your skill level (level of training) in order to save a life or prevent human suffering. So in your given example, assuming you are a licensed medical provider at some level (it sounds like you are), you are well within CAP regulations to provide care up to your skill level, not "clutch the regs and watch them die" as you put it. CAPR160-1 also has a similar line about "providing first aid within your level of training", and if your "level of training" happens to be EMT-P level, then that's how high you can act.

I realize that you were being silly in order to make a point, but your attitude is one that is espoused by many people and is not supported by regulation.

[JeffDG]

CAP has severe allergies to almost all things medical. ( I would suggest 50mg Benedryl, IM, followed by a course of Prednisone unless Epinephrine was required first, but the proper-CAP  thing to do would be to watch CAP die hideously from anaphylaxis, while clutching the CAPR's to your chest and repeating over and over " This is what the book says I should do!")

I suggest that if a Squadron as group had such an interest, they would be better served, and more free to pursue that goal, by "Dual Chartering" as a "Venturing Crew" under BSA. Most Cadets could easily manage the First Responder certification ( I would almost bet you we have a few instructors who would do the training for free if you fed them and  treated them nicely) EMT is a term that means very different things in different jurisdictions, and can range from EMT-"basic" ( About the same as a first responder) to EMT-P ( "Paramedic") with a range of various permissions and trainings in between. In California, there are "crash course" EMT-Basic classes that last two weeks. First Responder and a valid "Professional Rescuer" CPR cert are the usual prerequisites, as is passing a TB test. ( Study very hard for that test)

Even if we rounded up an institution that could certify EMTs, there are age limits ( Strangely enough, 16-year-old cadets will not be issued an Emergency Vehicle Operator's Endorsement to their driver's license. Your local National Guard group may be willing to conduct unofficial training if treated properly ( I suggest bribes with donuts and sending the prettiest CAP members to ask) Of course, if a State or County would certify a Cadet as an EMT, they could wear the badge, and cadets love flair and bling on their uniforms. Perhaps we can allow personnel who have the First Responder" to wear the EMT badge with a red circle and line through it across the Caduceus? It would be nicer than the CPR patch, which looks like it belongs on a Hippie or a Red Cross Volunteer.

The only type of medical aid that should be administered by CAP personnel or by any other person at CAP's request is reasonable treatment deemed necessary to save a life or prevent human suffering.  This treatment must be executed by a person qualified to attempt such medical care within their skill level.

In other words, you may act up to your skill level (level of training) in order to save a life or prevent human suffering. So in your given example, assuming you are a licensed medical provider at some level (it sounds like you are), you are well within CAP regulations to provide care up to your skill level, not "clutch the regs and watch them die" as you put it. CAPR160-1 also has a similar line about "providing first aid within your level of training", and if your "level of training" happens to be EMT-P level, then that's how high you can act.

I realize that you were being silly in order to make a point, but your attitude is one that is espoused by many people and is not supported by regulation.