Medal or Reprimand?

[C/MSgt Lunsford]

I'm going to go ahead and say Medal. Yet they entered a crash site without a Senior Member being present, they were doing their duty, and saving lives. Is that not what CAP is all about? Are we supposed to just watch and do nothing? No. We need to control the situation and try to rescue a person that has just fallen victim to an accident. Alot of time Regs are just thrown out the door, but I believe it was necessary for those Cadets to do what they did. For that I applaud them on their Heroism.  :clap: :clap: :clap: Though they should have made sure those Civilians stood back from the wreckage.

[Spike]

I know it's a bit confusing, but that's how the system works. At least that's how it works in California.

That's your problem right there.  You are from California.....but California CAP does it's own thing in regards to almost everything!

[Eclipse]

I am saying that cap is playing, as in with a mission number, so the highest cap person their goes to the incident commander to get orders

No, the people who are qualified to act in an operational command role take the orders.

Unlike the military, grade in and of itself confers zee-ro operational authority.

In the case of a large mission situation, unless you are an IC or an AL, you don't belong in the ICP taking
taskings for CAP, because for starters you don't have the authority to commit resources. (the exception maybe being, state directors or corporate officers, and then only in coordination with the NOC)

Vento has it spot-on.

[Spike]

^ State Directors can commit Corporate Resources??

[Eclipse]

^ State Directors can commit Corporate Resources??

I said "maybe".  They are nearly always involved in real mission activity on some level, and I'm hypothesizing a situation where for some reason there's no IC but CAP still needs to be involved.  Rare would be the case, and I'm not saying its a good idea, but since on the CAP side what and who can commit
our toys is up to us and CAP-USAF, no one on the receiving end of help would complain.

[Ozzy]

First off, if you are on the scene as a CAP member, then you are a resource of CAP, NOT FEMA. You do what ever CAP Mission Base tells you to do. If an IC of whatever asks you to do something, verify with Mission base before proceeding.

But if an IC needs to get something done, they go through their resources, or if out of that, through the agency Liaison officer who'll talk to your CoC to take you. Then if approved, then you do what he says as long as its within your responsibilities and training (i.e. if they ask you to run into a burning building... don't do it unless you are there as a fire-fighter, not as a CAP member)

[JayT]

First off, if you are on the scene as a CAP member, then you are a resource of CAP, NOT FEMA. You do what ever CAP Mission Base tells you to do. If an IC of whatever asks you to do something, verify with Mission base before proceeding.

But if an IC needs to get something done, they go through their resources, or if out of that, through the agency Liaison officer who'll talk to your CoC to take you. Then if approved, then you do what he says as long as its within your responsibilities and training (i.e. if they ask you to run into a burning building... don't do it unless you are there as a fire-fighter, not as a CAP member)

And that's the problem. In the real world, CAP can't be off doing it's own thing. With a true incident, there shouldn't be that extra time to communicate with our 'own' incident command.

It seems there's a lot of stories of CAP Incident Commanders contacting 'the' IC of an incident and not understanding the difference.

Maybe more interagency training is in order....

But, in regards to the orginal post, I don't know if a MoV is in order with the information we have, but maybe a ComCom?

[Майор Хаткевич]

For publicity I'd maybe throw in an achievement award, but beyond that...Need More Info!

[ol'fido]

Not going to go to deep into this one as it seems it's getting real deep around here anyway.

Until we know the real or "ground" truth let's not condemn or commend. That's for the chain of these cadet's to decide not the armchair quarterbacks.

One of the tenets of ICS as I understand is that each agency committs their personnel and resources to the incident command but each agency works under there own chain of command at THE TACTICAL LEVEL and under their own rules and regs. If there is a conflict between orders from the IC and agency rules/regs, that should be worked out the Liaison/ IC level or there should be a Unified Command.

[James Shaw]

Anything ever come of this?

[Pumbaa]

"Where were the senior leaders?"

They are fat and fuzzies in corporate grays trying to waddle, weeze and wiggle to the scene!

[flyguy06]

SO, if I were not in CAP amd went over to help those people would that be ok?

[Stonewall]

You are NOT a cadet.  The issue is that cadets did this.  Where were senior members during this event?  There are many more issues and question than just being a "Joe Citizen" vs. CAP member (cadet).

[Eclipse]

SO, if I were not in CAP amd went over to help those people would that be ok?

Don't know, don't care.  The only context that is relevant to this conversation is CAP regs and SOP. 

You can do whatever you want as a private citizen.

[flyguy06]

Whoa. Whats with the attitude? I just  asked a question. I wasnt sure.

[flyboy53]

Medals to both. Good job!