Safety Follies -- Are We Really Safe?

[lordmonar]

I don't know.....I have backed a vehicle up for the last 30 years or so....and have only hit something one or two times.

I really, really, really hate the "spotter" idea....or the concept that you are stupid if you don't use one.

It is just another one of those safety mandate that get imposed on use with no real value added.

If having a spotter is so important.....then no one should ever be able to drive a vehicle with out a shotgun to act as a spotter.

End of Rant.

It was VERY poor judgement by those seniors in that van.

BS!  No one was killed, no one was injured.  The fact that some one helped out is a non player. 

This particular circumstance where the vehicle was in relation to what was going on with the number of people walking around was dangerous.   Do we need a spotter every time, probably not BUT tell me what's the big deal if you have another competent person in the van with you to ask them to spot you while you back up

That is exactly the attitude that I hate with safety!  Instead of the safety person actually justifying his position....they fall back to the "what's the big deal"  "It only takes a second"  "don't question the reflective belt".

If you need a spotter use one.  If you don't need one don't use one.  End of story.

If the SM were operating their vehicle in a negligent/unsafe manner....then why did you not correct them on the spot and/or report them to the the appropriate commander?

[BillB]

I drove a F-350 van for several years, and never had a problem backing up. Perhaps rather than CAP requireing spotters, CAP should have a driving test and instruction on driving vans.

[sneakers]

CAP does have a test to get a CAP driver's license. The problem is, no matter what you do at the top (ORM, Intro to Safety, etc.), that doesn't fit the root problem, which is people's apathy/stupidity.

[Eclipse]

CAP does have a test to get a CAP driver's license. The problem is, no matter what you do at the top (ORM, Intro to Safety, etc.), that doesn't fit the root problem, which is people's apathy/stupidity.

There is no CAP test for a CAP driver's license.
The approval is based on a subjective review of the applicant's driver's record as provided by the respective Wing's DMV.

[jimmydeanno]

CAP does have a test to get a CAP driver's license. The problem is, no matter what you do at the top (ORM, Intro to Safety, etc.), that doesn't fit the root problem, which is people's apathy/stupidity.

There is no CAP test for a CAP driver's license.
The approval is based on a subjective review of the applicant's driver's record as provided by the respective Wing's DMV.

My last wing made all of their driver's take a driving evaluation in each type of vehicle they wanted to be able to drive.  The squadron's transportation officer would go through a briefing about the differences between their Honda Civic and a 15-pax, then go through a series of maneuvers with the driver.  If they passed, their application was sent in with the evaluation sign-off, and they'd get licensed in that type of van.

[davidsinn]

CAP does have a test to get a CAP driver's license. The problem is, no matter what you do at the top (ORM, Intro to Safety, etc.), that doesn't fit the root problem, which is people's apathy/stupidity.

There is no CAP test for a CAP driver's license.
The approval is based on a subjective review of the applicant's driver's record as provided by the respective Wing's DMV.

My last wing made all of their driver's take a driving evaluation in each type of vehicle they wanted to be able to drive.  The squadron's transportation officer would go through a briefing about the differences between their Honda Civic and a 15-pax, then go through a series of maneuvers with the driver.  If they passed, their application was sent in with the evaluation sign-off, and they'd get licensed in that type of van.

I like that..

[Eclipse]

Sounds good on paper, until you encounter a state with more than a few miles from end-to-end, and the LGT is in another part from the
rest of the population.

Be careful what you wish for...

[jimmydeanno]

Sounds good on paper, until you encounter a state with more than a few miles from end-to-end, and the LGT is in another part from the
rest of the population.

Be careful what you wish for...

I think I noted that it was each individual unit's transportation officer that did the evaluation, not the Wing's.  They'd do them at the unit meetings, then scan/mail the application and evaluation record.  It wasn't a burden at all, really.  I think the most our unit's had to do at one time was two in one night.

[Spaceman3750]

CAP does have a test to get a CAP driver's license. The problem is, no matter what you do at the top (ORM, Intro to Safety, etc.), that doesn't fit the root problem, which is people's apathy/stupidity.

There is no CAP test for a CAP driver's license.
The approval is based on a subjective review of the applicant's driver's record as provided by the respective Wing's DMV.

My last wing made all of their driver's take a driving evaluation in each type of vehicle they wanted to be able to drive.  The squadron's transportation officer would go through a briefing about the differences between their Honda Civic and a 15-pax, then go through a series of maneuvers with the driver.  If they passed, their application was sent in with the evaluation sign-off, and they'd get licensed in that type of van.

I don't think that proves you're a safe driver in a specific vehicle so much as you can drive it once without screwing up.

[Eclipse]

Not to mention who decided what was appropriate? I understand and even semi-agree with the idea, but unless there is some evidence to
show the need, one could certainly question the extra effort.

After all, despite the assertions by some people that these are somehow "different", in 99% of the cases these are standard passenger
vehicles, not exactly rocket science.  At legally posted speeds there should be no issues, even fully loaded.  Most of the mishap reports
I have read indicated a failure of common sense, which is hard to evaluate objectively.

In a wing with groups, at least three people are supposed to be subjectively evaluating someone's fitness for a CAP DL.

[jimmydeanno]

I don't think that proves you're a safe driver in a specific vehicle so much as you can drive it once without screwing up.

Maybe state DMVs should stop having drivers take the driving exam, then. 

[Spaceman3750]

I don't think that proves you're a safe driver in a specific vehicle so much as you can drive it once without screwing up.

Maybe state DMVs should stop having drivers take the driving exam, then.

In my state I won't be required to take another road test until I'm 75 (at least that's what I gather from the website). Apparently they don't take them very seriously either.

[Eclipse]

I don't think that proves you're a safe driver in a specific vehicle so much as you can drive it once without screwing up.

Maybe state DMVs should stop having drivers take the driving exam, then.

In my state I won't be required to take another road test until I'm 75 (at least that's what I gather from the website). Apparently they don't take them very seriously either.

It depends on your driving history.  You have to have some level of testing interaction every 9 years, sometimes just a written test, but if you
have accidents or tickets they raise the bar.

[davidsinn]

I don't think that proves you're a safe driver in a specific vehicle so much as you can drive it once without screwing up.

Maybe state DMVs should stop having drivers take the driving exam, then.

In my state I won't be required to take another road test until I'm 75 (at least that's what I gather from the website). Apparently they don't take them very seriously either.

It depends on your driving history.  You have to have some level of testing interaction every 9 years, sometimes just a written test, but if you
have accidents or tickets they raise the bar.

Maybe in the People's Republic of Illinois. Here in Indiana all we have to do is renew our license. That's being done online now.

[Spaceman3750]

People's Republic of Illinois.

+1 :angel:

Yeah, he meant Illinois. We're in the same wing.

[davidsinn]

People's Republic of Illinois.

+1 :angel:

Yeah, he meant Illinois. We're in the same wing.

Ah. Did not know that. I live close enough to Chicago that it has effects on my area. Mainly idiots that can't drive and high crime rates.

[Eclipse]

Indiana's online renewal appears to be about the same as Illinois.