Design a new CAP-distinctive Uniform

[Angus]

Why add another uniform or change from what exists?  The grey/white combination looks smart.  All that should be done is find a shade of grey that works best and make that uniform. 

[Strick]

 that would make sense

[SarDragon]

As noted other times in other places, just take a set of grade slide with you when you go shopping for trousers, and get a pair that matches. I get mine from Sears - the FlexSlax line. The mail order folks at Haband also carry a color that is really close. This ain't rocket surgery here.

[Eclipse]

Why add another uniform or change from what exists?  The grey/white combination looks smart.  All that should be done is find a shade of grey that works best and make that uniform.

Because the uniform does not fulfill the mission.

1) Its not uniform. (by design)

2) It has no acceptable formal option (the blazer is not the formal extension of the whites, its a separate uniform).

3) It treats those who wear it as a second class, and looks ridiculous in formal settings because it has no
headgear or jacket, and does not allow for the wear of ribbons or badges on a coat.

[Eclipse]

As noted other times in other places, just take a set of grade slide with you when you go shopping for trousers, and get a pair that matches. I get mine from Sears - the FlexSlax line. The mail order folks at Haband also carry a color that is really close. This ain't rocket surgery here.

"Close" is what we have today because there is no specification as there is with military clothing.

"Close" ≠ "uniform".

The idea behind the whites was to allow members to put together a uniform mostly from what they had in their closets already at minimal expense, even the aviator shirt owing to the "Air" in CAP.  In most cases the same pants can be worn with the golf shirt as the whites.

If you're going to specify a color, it defeats the above, so you might as well "own" it and design a gray
service-dress style uniform and spread around the pain.

A dark-gray double-breasted coat with the CAP epaulets would solve this question once and for all.

[Angus]

Why double-breasted?  Single-breasted looks much better on everyone. 

[jimmydeanno]

Why double-breasted?  Single-breasted looks much better on everyone.

Aaaaaa-greeed. 

Any tailor will tell you that single-breasted is more flattering on a variety of body types.  Double breasted on larger people makes them look like boxes, and certainly isn't flattering for our female members.

[MSG Mac]

I smella dead horse

Been flogged to death

[lordmonar]

Why add another uniform or change from what exists?  The grey/white combination looks smart.  All that should be done is find a shade of grey that works best and make that uniform.

Because the uniform does not fulfill the mission.

1) Its not uniform. (by design)

2) It has no acceptable formal option (the blazer is not the formal extension of the whites, its a separate uniform).

3) It treats those who wear it as a second class, and looks ridiculous in formal settings because it has no
headgear or jacket, and does not allow for the wear of ribbons or badges on a coat.

1.  If we found a supplier that provided us a single shade of gray....it would be.
2.  The Blazer is perfectly acceptable as a formal (i.e. mess dress)
3.  If EVERYONE wore it, there would be no second class citezens.  As for wearing ribbons and such...there are already military rules on how to wear mini-medals on civilian clothing.

[Eclipse]

^ Correct on all points, but defeating the original intent of the whites (AFAIK).

As to #2 - the blazer is not a military-style formal dress, its not even a uniform, its just a jacket with a crest on it (or worse, a *gag* pocket protector) and we are a military auxiliary.
It you are not going to allow everyone to show off their achievements and decorations, you should not allow anyone to show them off.

[RogueLeader]

I smella dead horse

Been flogged to death

For some time now, repeatedly. . .

[lordmonar]

^ Correct on all points, but defeating the original intent of the whites (AFAIK).

As to #2 - the blazer is not a military-style formal dress, its not even a uniform, its just a jacket with a crest on it (or worse, a *gag* pocket protector) and we are a military auxiliary.
It you are not going to allow everyone to show off their achievements and decorations, you should not allow anyone to show them off.

I'm confused.....My point is that we should all be in the same uniform....so if we are a formal function, you and everyone else, will be in the blazer.

If you want to show your achievement and decorations....we can write rules on how to wear them in that "uniform".  Everyone will wear them the same.

  Everyone.....same.....uniform.......that is my point....always has been.

The purpose of the whites was a compromise between those allowed to wear the USAF stle and those not allowed.   It had the effect of creating a second class/us vs them mentality withing CAP.

The two uniform sets do not promote unity and esprit de corps.....hence my efforts to move CAP to a single UNIFORM set that tries to make both the CAP members and the USAF happy.

[NCRblues]

There is no second class member; I don't know where you are getting this idea from. You must allow people to treat you like second class if you feel like you are. I guess those leadership positions that wear the white and grays are second class according to you. The national commander must be second class because I have seen her in them, plus several region and wing kings must be as well.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^^

Nobody is, or should be, a "second-class member" based on what uniform they wear.

When I first joined CAP (berry boards era), everyone in my first squadron wore the AF-type uniform.  I didn't encounter grey/white until my first Wing functions.

I was then in a senior squadron (flying unit) where I was the only one who wore the AF-type uniform, and some looked askance at me for doing so.

In my current unit, you can find about any CAP uniform combination under the sun.

Even though I don't personally like the grey/white or polo combinations, I know many do, and I'd rather somebody be in those uniforms and do the job at hand rather than try to look like Curtis LeMay and just be window dressing.

But, to flog this dead horse a little more:

Institute an "Ike" type jacket, kind of retro-looking, plus the AF doesn't have it and hasn't for a long time.  Blue shoulder marks with embroidered "CAP," blue three-line nameplate, no commissioning stripe, CAP lapel insignia, current CAP "overseas" patch on left shoulder.

Available to all members, regardless of lack of svelteness or facial fuzz status.

OK, dead horse, go back to decomposing.

Returning you to our regularly scheduled insanity...

[PhotogPilot]

My vote:



Captain Sweatpants

[Gunner C]

Sorry, won't work.  The AF owns star designs.    Can't have fat boys going around wearing AF stars.  The AF also owns T-shirts.  That will be shot down.  As far as sweat pants, I believe the AF also used sweat pants at one time for PT.  Nope - they must own that, too.

Socks, buttons, ties, zippers, belts, hats, baseball caps, sneakers, jock straps, boxers, and shoe laces.  All too much like the AF uniform, especially if you're fat.  Better come up with something else.

As disclosed on another thread, the AF didn't have the eggs to come out and tell us to our faces that they're pissed that we have anything that's blue and it makes them look bad.  These thumb-suckers need to man-up and tell us to our faces what the real deal is.  If they'd do that, then we could deal  with it.  But no, these panty-waist pencil pushers don't have the testicles to say "hey, that's our uniform (BTW, thanks for taking all of those missions you're taking off our hands).  Say it to my face, don't go into "executive session" and tell a bunch of CAP colonels that they have to change.  IMO, the new CAP-USAF command structure speaks out of both sides of their collective mouths.

[Eclipse]

There is no second class member; I don't know where you are getting this idea from. You must allow people to treat you like second class if you feel like you are. I guess those leadership positions that wear the white and grays are second class according to you. The national commander must be second class because I have seen her in them, plus several region and wing kings must be as well.

Please read the text and not your inferences.

So you're saying that there's no reason at all for those who can't wear their grade, ribbons, pins, or badges of office to formal and ceremonial occasions to feel "different"?

The only reward CAP gives its members is bling (beyond the altrusitic satisfaction).  Some can wear it some can't.

Why?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

As disclosed on another thread, the AF didn't have the eggs to come out and tell us to our faces that they're pissed that we have anything that's blue and it makes them look bad.  These thumb-suckers need to man-up and tell us to our faces what the real deal is.  If they'd do that, then we could deal  with it.  But no, these panty-waist pencil pushers don't have the testicles to say "hey, that's our uniform (BTW, thanks for taking all of those missions you're taking off our hands).  Say it to my face, don't go into "executive session" and tell a bunch of CAP colonels that they have to change.  IMO, the new CAP-USAF command structure speaks out of both sides of their collective mouths.

I think you're probably trying to be satirical, and I'm just as frustrated with this latest uniform bullcrackie as the next one, but I don't think that insulting the AF is the best approach.  You don't know who may be lurking on this board, and also remember that the public probably doesn't think much of us slagging our parent service.

Remember, there are three ways to do things: the right way, the wrong way and the military/government way.

I am going to wait until I see something in writing, officially mandating this before I believe that it's a done deal and not open to further revision (no offence intended to those who broke the news).  Even if it's yet another ICL, then I'll go on that.

$0.02 offered.

[Gunner C]

No, I was being pretty straight forward.  That's more than CAP-USAF has been with us.  They're supposed to be honest brokers but they've been doing this in the shadows.  Believe me, this didn't happen Wednesday prior to the NEC.  IOW, identify the problem, identify possible solutions, choose the best one, and fix it.  Stop the PC whispering.

There will be thousands of SMs like me who won't soon trust CAP-USAF again.  They've broken a trust.

[PHall]

No, I was being pretty straight forward.  That's more than CAP-USAF has been with us.  They're supposed to be honest brokers but they've been doing this in the shadows.  Believe me, this didn't happen Wednesday prior to the NEC.

There will be thousands of SMs like me who won't soon trust CAP-USAF again.  They've broken a trust.

Well, if you're so offended by MY Air Force, then why are you still here?