Wearing the ABU's

[Hawk200]

Multicam is being wear tested by special operations forces. There is also a test going through the Army Battle Lab in Natick. Many soldiers are buying them up on their own and trying them. Of course, multicam isn't authorized yet, so they wear it for fun in the field instead of in formation or garrison. I've heard nothing but rave reviews as far as the pattern and camouflage goes.

Did some research. The Future Combat Systems Company is wearing them. Seems like they're out in Arizona.

Anyway, a Wiki link that shows a decent photo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Force_Warrior#Headgear_Subsystem

It looks to be a satisfactory all-round pattern.

[wallport10]

If I may say so myself, being an AD member of the Air Force, I dislike the new ABU system and disagree fully with it being dropped down to the Aux level. In all honesty, it is a new "Combat" uniform and should be used solely for that purpose. In short, CAP does not fullfil any sort of combat role, and therefore has no reason to wear the uniform. BDU's still show that CAP is a military type organization that supports the Air Force (being that it is the Auxilary), but it also allows people to know that it is not a combat organization. Besides, sometimes it catches us (us being security forces) by surprise when you see a 16 y.o child wearing a uniform just like yours, with patches, rank, etc. Granted there are color differences and whatnot, but at first it can still "WHOA" us. Just my input! :-)

[mikeylikey]

hmmmm......where to start.  First thank you for your service!  Second, I agree it is a combat uniform, as are BDU's.  hell you PT clothes are combat clothing in the sense that if you were caught in them but the enemy....etc. 

However, the Auxiliary should wear what the organization wears they are supposed to be supporting.  If that means ABU's, so be it. 

I hope you can tell the difference between a 13 year old kid in ABU's and a 54 year old General in ABU's.  Heck, we will have so much "CAP" specific stuff all over the ABU, it won't even closely resemble what the AF will be wearing.

Don't sweat it!

[CadetProgramGuy]

Heck, we will have so much "CAP" specific stuff all over the ABU, it won't even closely resemble what the AF will be wearing.

While I agree that CAP specific items will be on our new uniform (whatever that may be, all I ask is that we stop looking like walking christmas trees.

Heck on my own BDU while I was in a squadron, i took off my squadron patch and ES patch.  Too much goo on the BDU.

[Stonewall]

hell your PT clothes are combat clothing in the sense that if you were caught in them but the enemy....etc. 

How right you are....

15 Dec 97, while in "Troll Village" on the Sava River, my platoon was on one of our rotations to the Sava River bridge for 7 to 20 days (we never knew how long) to protect the bridge, patrol and act as a Quick Reactionary Force (QRF) to anything bad that happened.  Just so happens this particular evening, my squad was in the makeshift gym in the tent working out when the balloon went up.  Herb the Serb decided to  hijack a NATO fuel truck in our sector and was bringing to or location in an effort to steal it.  My entire squadr was in PT gear.  We grabbed our battle-rattle and responded.  Luckily, our gore-tex was in our ruck sacks but it didn't last long enough for us to need it.  In about 20 minutes the squadr on duty took it the tanker truck down.

Just goes to show, you never know...

Me and our real deal lawyer and interpreter.  Paul, the guy on the left, graduated 1st in his class at UVA Law and decided he wanted to do his part and enlisted as an infantryman in the VA ARNG.



Doc with his aid bag and litter (he is now a Special Forces dude with Bronze Star with "V")

[lordmonar]

If I may say so myself, being an AD member of the Air Force, I dislike the new ABU system and disagree fully with it being dropped down to the Aux level. In all honesty, it is a new "Combat" uniform and should be used solely for that purpose. In short, CAP does not fullfil any sort of combat role, and therefore has no reason to wear the uniform. BDU's still show that CAP is a military type organization that supports the Air Force (being that it is the Auxilary), but it also allows people to know that it is not a combat organization. Besides, sometimes it catches us (us being security forces) by surprise when you see a 16 y.o child wearing a uniform just like yours, with patches, rank, etc. Granted there are color differences and whatnot, but at first it can still "WHOA" us. Just my input! :-)

Then let's just go with BBDUs

[CadetProgramGuy]

Then let's just go with BBDUs

And move farthur away from our Parents (USAF)?

[BillB]

I don't think I'd worry about CAP being in ABUs for several years. If it's authorized for CAP it probably won't be for five or more years. You may consider it a "battle" uniform, but it's also a work uniform. At MacDill AFB at Tampa, it's the UOD for those that have them. And I don't think there has been a battle in Tampa since the Seminole Wars of the 1830's.

[Falshrmjgr]

Now being in Korea, the consensus is generally the same.  I was in a training class with about 25 soldiers and the topic of ACUs came up.  Everyone of them said they did not like them.  They all would much rather go back to wearing BDUs.

Really.....I am surprised.  I would never go back to BDU's.  In fact, I can't stand putting my CAP BDU's on.  They just feel funny.  I never had any wash or wear problems. 

HOWEVER, the only problem I had was a small rip in the ass of my ACU's, but I traded them out and no big deal. 

Now as for aesthetics......I hate the fact that the Officer Branch Insignia was removed in the transition to the ACU.  I like to know what branch the Officer I am talking to is in.  It was easy in BDU's to see what an Officer did by looking at his or her branch insignia and then deciding whether or not to waste time talking to him or her.  Now I have to ask "what's your branch".

Mikey, It's simple EIB/CIB = Infantry/SF, No EIB/CIB = "Other"  :angel:


Of course you might also pick out an Engineer by the "Super Sapper" Tab thingie.....  (Jeez the stuff they came up with after I got out...)   

[Falshrmjgr]

If I may say so myself, being an AD member of the Air Force, I dislike the new ABU system and disagree fully with it being dropped down to the Aux level. In all honesty, it is a new "Combat" uniform and should be used solely for that purpose. In short, CAP does not fullfil any sort of combat role, and therefore has no reason to wear the uniform. BDU's still show that CAP is a military type organization that supports the Air Force (being that it is the Auxilary), but it also allows people to know that it is not a combat organization. Besides, sometimes it catches us (us being security forces) by surprise when you see a 16 y.o child wearing a uniform just like yours, with patches, rank, etc. Granted there are color differences and whatnot, but at first it can still "WHOA" us. Just my input! :-)

Yeah, well I never understood why the G1 Personnel Clerk wore a "combat" uniform either.  In fact I think the only people who should wear camouflage are the actual gunfighters.  The rest of the the support pukes should have to wear bright yellow or pink polyester jump suits so they KNOW they aren't really warfighters.  Gotta keep the pogues in their place.  Those losers aren't really part of the team, you know what I mean?

As a matter of fact, non-airborne qualified personnel (i.e. "Legs") should have to stand at parade rest in the present of their betters, regardless of rank.


</sarcasm>

[Hawk200]

There is a place for utility uniforms for everyone. Wearing a service uniform (in whole or part) is not practical for everyday wear. Considering what our cadets do during encampment, I wouldn't want them tearing up blues.

There's other places where they are just more appropriate. CAP members taking a ride on C-130 have no practical reason for wearing service dress (which I've seen photos of this being done).

Our super secret squirrel organizations tend to wear what works for them, and a large part of the time, they are wearing something that doesn't even make them look like the rest of the branch that they serve with. We don't need to dress like them, but restricting utilities for only the "working" types just isn't practical.

Now if the Air Force actually came up with a practical working garrison utility uniform, I'd be for it. But I don't think they will.

[lordmonar]

Then let's just go with BBDUs

And move farther away from our Parents (USAF)?

Don't tell me...tell Wallport10, 

My basic premise on uniforms has always been we ALL need to be in USAF style uniforms (even the fat and fuzzy types).....or.....we ALL need to be in CAP style uniforms.

If the USAF is the one not allowing us to wear THEIR uniform then it is they who are pushing us away.

We are their auxillary....even the fat and fuzzy guys....they need to either fish or cut bait....this half and half stuff is just not a very good practice.

[Stonewall]

My basic premise on uniforms has always been we ALL need to be in USAF style uniforms (even the fat and fuzzy types).....or.....we ALL need to be in CAP style uniforms.

If the USAF is the one not allowing us to wear THEIR uniform then it is they who are pushing us away.

We are their auxillary....even the fat and fuzzy guys....they need to either fish or cut bait....this half and half stuff is just not a very good practice.

Preach on, brother Patrick.  Amen ^to that^.

[PHall]

If I may say so myself, being an AD member of the Air Force, I dislike the new ABU system and disagree fully with it being dropped down to the Aux level. In all honesty, it is a new "Combat" uniform and should be used solely for that purpose. In short, CAP does not fullfil any sort of combat role, and therefore has no reason to wear the uniform. BDU's still show that CAP is a military type organization that supports the Air Force (being that it is the Auxilary), but it also allows people to know that it is not a combat organization. Besides, sometimes it catches us (us being security forces) by surprise when you see a 16 y.o child wearing a uniform just like yours, with patches, rank, etc. Granted there are color differences and whatnot, but at first it can still "WHOA" us. Just my input! :-)

Feel better now?

News flash hero. We had the exact same arguements going on when we went from the green fatigues to the BDU's.
Haven't seen any CAP members in BDU's being mistaken for "Combat Troops" yet.


Philip Hall, Lt Col, CAP / MSgt (Ret), USAFR

[Hawk200]

Besides, sometimes it catches us (us being security forces) by surprise when you see a 16 y.o child wearing a uniform just like yours, with patches, rank, etc. Granted there are color differences and whatnot, but at first it can still "WHOA" us. Just my input! :-)

Sounds like you're not informing your colleagues of what CAP is. If they're going  "Whoa!", it's a perfect opportunity to enlighten them.

Might not hurt for them to know. Wouldn't want you to go handing a kid an M-4 when he's not ready for it.

[Slim]

As I recall, we had these exact same discussions in parking lot and restaurant after-meeting meetings back in 1990, while trying to decide how long it would take us to get BDUs.  I remember hearing everything from within six months, to 3-5 years, to never.  We received authorization for BDUs on or about 1 Jan 91, IIRC.

We heard all the same things then that people are saying now:  that the surplus stocks of BDUs will carry us for years, we'll be able to get them from commercial sources, yadda yadda yadda.  I think it was about two years after the AF switched to BDUs before CAP was wearing them.  Though I will admit that the supply train for BDUs was quite a bit longer, being that every service was wearing them.

Honestly, nobody knows when the word for ABUs will come.  Could be next week, could be next year, could never come.  When/if it does, I'd be willing to be there are a few people out there who already have them in their closets, ready to go.  

[lordmonar]

Well....not in my closet....but I got the name tapes ready to sew on as soon as we get a go order!

[RogueLeader]

Well....not in my closet....but I got the name tapes ready to sew on as soon as we get a go order!

What color?

[afgeo4]

If I may say so myself, being an AD member of the Air Force, I dislike the new ABU system and disagree fully with it being dropped down to the Aux level. In all honesty, it is a new "Combat" uniform and should be used solely for that purpose. In short, CAP does not fullfil any sort of combat role, and therefore has no reason to wear the uniform. BDU's still show that CAP is a military type organization that supports the Air Force (being that it is the Auxilary), but it also allows people to know that it is not a combat organization. Besides, sometimes it catches us (us being security forces) by surprise when you see a 16 y.o child wearing a uniform just like yours, with patches, rank, etc. Granted there are color differences and whatnot, but at first it can still "WHOA" us. Just my input! :-)

Hey Nathan... welcome back to CONUS and welcome to Captalk.

Here comes the argument though... the extensive testing by battle labs and combat airmen has proven that the ABU is not a combat uniform. It is a garrison uniform. The leadership of the Air Force has claimed as such. The Air Force set out to find a new and distinctive utility uniform that would work well in garrison and in base defense conditions. Why? Because that's what almost all airmen do. That's why the pockets aren't slanted. Why there are no knee pads inserts. Why the camouflage pattern works awfully in wooded and desert conditions or at night. Why there is no IR tab and why no mandarin collar. The uniform is built for SPs and the rest of us base dwellers. It is not built for Combat Airmen or those who truly battle outside the perimeter. The true utilities of the uniform as per the Air Force is its durability of fabric, wash & wear perm press, no shine boots, distinctive from other services, and provides a few more convenience pockets to those who carry calculators and pens for a living. That, coincidentally, works quite well for CAP.

Next time you go "whoa!" at the base gate, remember that anyone can buy and wear any uniform. That's why you have 100% ID check.

[Hawk200]

The uniform is built for SPs and the rest of us base dwellers. It is not built for Combat Airmen or those who truly battle outside the perimeter.

True that the Air Force built it for garrison wear. What's ironic is that all the airmen embeded or supporting Army units that used to wear ACU's, are no longer permitted to. Even if working with the Army, they're required to wear the ABU now.