Wearing the ABU's

[WWIntel]

ACUs and ABUs share basically the same colors.  The only difference, colorwise, is the addition of "slate blue" to the ABU.

The camo colors are very similar. The uniforms themselves are drastically different.

The ABU is basically a modified BDU. The ACU is a completely different design from any other tactical uniform in existance. There are sleeve pockets, angled chest pockets, Velcro for insignia, it closes up in the front with a zipper, and the collar is a "Mandarin" type that covers the throat area.

The uniforms may look similar in color, but the patterns themselves are highly unique.

In your original post, you said that the "ACU's however, are a horse of a different color" in comparison to the ABUs.  Pattern-wise and design-wise, they are different, color-wise, not really.  I see soldiers and airmen in ACUs and ABUs every day and, at distance, it is difficult to tell the two apart.  The giveaway would probably the color of the boots.  There have even been instances on my base where AF NCOs go to chase down a soldier wearing ACUs and a woodland gore-tex parka (authorized) thinking it was an airman wearing ABUs and a woodland gore-tex parka (not authorized).

Just curious. When and where did you see AF people wearing ACU's? I have never seen this. When I deployed I wason an AF base and they all stil wore desert BDU's .

To be honest, for the military (not CAP) I like the ABU's better than the ACU's

I saw them at AUAB on the way into Iraq back in Jul 06.  An ALO and his TACPs on our chalk had them on.  The rest of us were wearing DCUs.

Ummm......in Iraq my second time and Afghanistan my first time.  You will not see them wearing ACU's in the States, and I do believe only AF personnel assigned to Army were issued ACU's before arriving in theatre.  Now they are issued ABU's.  Specifically, I worked with an Air Battle Manager advising my Battery for 7 months, and he wore ACU's everyday. 

Have you worn a set of ACU's?  Do you currently wear ABU's?  What makes the ABU better than the ACU? 

For me;
1) mandarin collar so my neck does not become irritated.
2) slanted pockets that are accessible through the armor
3) pockets that are convenient to my hands
4) fabric quality (sand does not work its way through)
5) fabric weight
6) more comfortable fit when running

I can go on, but I am tired and those are the main things I like about ACU's. 

Just about every Army soldier that I have talked to hates the ACU.  Army guys that I worked with in the desert hated them and would have rather kept their DCUs.  Almost universal among their grips was the velcro.  It wears out fast.  The sand/dirt and putting the uniforms through the wash make them just about useless.  In fact, the first piece to usually go is the velcro on the mandarin collar.  Strings hanging off the uniform are a common sight after putting them in the wash.  The slanted pockets on the ACU chest and sleeves are somewhat moot while wearing IBA.  All soldiers and airmen transiting into Iraq are now issued Interceptor OTVs with DAPs and side plates.  With the DAPs on, you can't access the sleeve pockets.  It's also tough to reach the chest pockets while you have all the battle rattle on.  In addition, the fabric weight of the ACUs is significantly heavier than the DCUs.  Guys would sweat through multiple sets of ACUs in a day in the 120 degree Baghdad heat.

Now being in Korea, the consensus is generally the same.  I was in a training class with about 25 soldiers and the topic of ACUs came up.  Everyone of them said they did not like them.  They all would much rather go back to wearing BDUs.

[SARMedTech]

Well, lets just hope that the ACU/ABU follows the legacy of the M-16, which was also considered a piece of (explative) when it was first fielded. Nobody like that little plastic red-headed step child either, but I have known many military friends who said they almost cried when, for whatever reason, their beloved M-16 was taken away and they were given an MP-5 or M-4 to play with. But now, I dont hear many (at least the friends I have in the sandbox currently) complaining about their new toys.

It seems to be a military trend that when first fielded, most equipment is considered garbage in its early stages until the kinks are worked out and some of it remains issued garbage to this day.

Granted I have no military experience, but it seems that moving away from the BDU was yet another case of something being fixed which was not broken. I have many friends who are still wearing their tri-colors and have a "they can have it when they pry it from my cold dead hands" attitude, though I remember when that switch was made and I dont think it was particularly popular at the time, though anything would have to be considered better than the oreo cookie suits.

[mikeylikey]

Now being in Korea, the consensus is generally the same.  I was in a training class with about 25 soldiers and the topic of ACUs came up.  Everyone of them said they did not like them.  They all would much rather go back to wearing BDUs.

Really.....I am surprised.  I would never go back to BDU's.  In fact, I can't stand putting my CAP BDU's on.  They just feel funny.  I never had any wash or wear problems. 

HOWEVER, the only problem I had was a small rip in the ass of my ACU's, but I traded them out and no big deal. 

Now as for aesthetics......I hate the fact that the Officer Branch Insignia was removed in the transition to the ACU.  I like to know what branch the Officer I am talking to is in.  It was easy in BDU's to see what an Officer did by looking at his or her branch insignia and then deciding whether or not to waste time talking to him or her.  Now I have to ask "what's your branch".

[Hawk200]

In your original post, you said that the "ACU's however, are a horse of a different color" in comparison to the ABUs.  Pattern-wise and design-wise, they are different, color-wise, not really. 

I'm getting the idea that you're not familiar with that old expression. The saying implies that the base concept is the same (a tactical uniform), but the application is different.

The colors are not the issue. However, many people think that because the colors are similar, then they are the same uniform. They're not, not even close.

I can look at the two uniforms and tell a difference. I can tell the difference between ACU's and A2CU's by the color. They're supposed to be the same, but the fabric makes the shades subtly different.

But you can tell by other subtle differences of the uniforms themselves. Sleeve pockets, collars, boots, insignia. All minor things that add up, and set them apart. Many people don't think it's enough to be noticed. I guarantee that any enemy force is going to take note of those differences.

ROMADs, Weather, and the others that were wearing them blended in before. Now it's a simple case of "Close enough for government work". I don't think it would take a genius to figure out that the guy with that Infantry platoon carrying the radio is subtly different than the rest of the people with the team.

As for the ACU's, I've gotten used to them. A2CU's are growing on me, if not for the simple reason that I don't have any choice, I wear them or I don't fly.

[LittleIronPilot]

Well as both former military, and a current taxpayer, I will say this:

WE NEED ONE FREAKING UNIFORM!

[0]

Well as both former military, and a current taxpayer, I will say this:

WE NEED ONE FREAKING UNIFORM!

One of the reasons for the multiple uniform options is because some people don't meet the weight or grooming standards to wear an AF uniform.  So what should we tell all the Fat and Fuzzies they can't be in the program? 

If that's the case you know what we'd loose a lot of members especially in the higher echilons.

[Eeyore]

Well as both former military, and a current taxpayer, I will say this:

WE NEED ONE FREAKING UNIFORM!

Oh, I took what he was saying to mean one uniform across the board for all the armed services. Instead of having a separate one for each branch which costs more money to design, wear test, and deploy.

[Chris Jacobs]

I haven't been on here for quite a while, but I saw this and it peaked my interest.  I am currently a cadet at West Point and one of the instructors was on the team that developed the ACU's for the Army.  Most of the complaints that you will see in the ACU are that they don't work for specific situations very well.  The army was trying to make one uniform that would work for every one.  the pixilation is the same as the marine camo pattern, which is extremely effective.  the only thing is that they army chose the color pattern that would work decent in every environment, unlike the marines that have multiple different color pallets.  The Velcro came from soldier request.  Although over time in the field i think most would rather go back to something more durable.  It is true that the Velcro wears out quickly, I have found that to be especially true on the cargo pockets.  The patches being Velcro were supposed to be cost saving over time.  maybe not in the first year, with the cost of the patch being around 10 times more expensive, but over time less sewing is needed.  also i have 5 sets of ACU's but only 2 sets of patches, more money saved.  I hate the fact that the branch was taken off and most officers that i have talked to don't like it either, but it is something that is just for looks it doesn't effect how we fight.  The big problem has been riping in the seat and crotch of the pants.  The manufacture has already addressed the issue and the reinforced ACU trousers are now available to the best of my knowledge. 

From what i know and have been told the ACU fixes a problem that didn't need to be fixed today, but what about tomorrow.  Why not stay two steps a head of the enemy.  Also while it might not be great in the visual spectrum check it out under IR.  It works great in garrison, West Point cadets being in garrison for 9 months of the year means we like it, but the field does pose some problems.  For the Army people out there be watching for some really cool new additions to the uniform, there are some great things coming down the pipe and some really cool things that are being tested right now.  The instructors and cadets have been helping the designers a lot and have been doing some wear testing.  We need to give up on going back to the BDU, and progress with the ACU and ABU.  Both will need some more work, but both are good uniforms.

[mikeylikey]

^ I have to disagree and say that ACU's work great in the field as well.

[WWIntel]

In your original post, you said that the "ACU's however, are a horse of a different color" in comparison to the ABUs.  Pattern-wise and design-wise, they are different, color-wise, not really. 

I'm getting the idea that you're not familiar with that old expression. The saying implies that the base concept is the same (a tactical uniform), but the application is different.

The colors are not the issue. However, many people think that because the colors are similar, then they are the same uniform. They're not, not even close.

I can look at the two uniforms and tell a difference. I can tell the difference between ACU's and A2CU's by the color. They're supposed to be the same, but the fabric makes the shades subtly different.

But you can tell by other subtle differences of the uniforms themselves. Sleeve pockets, collars, boots, insignia. All minor things that add up, and set them apart. Many people don't think it's enough to be noticed. I guarantee that any enemy force is going to take note of those differences.

ROMADs, Weather, and the others that were wearing them blended in before. Now it's a simple case of "Close enough for government work". I don't think it would take a genius to figure out that the guy with that Infantry platoon carrying the radio is subtly different than the rest of the people with the team.

As for the ACU's, I've gotten used to them. A2CU's are growing on me, if not for the simple reason that I don't have any choice, I wear them or I don't fly.

You're right, I'm not familiar with that expression and I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.  I also agree with you in that they are not the same uniform.  In terms of blending in, do you think it's still an issue if an individual wearing ABUs had on ACU gear (i.e. IBA w/ DAPs, MICH/ACH, etc.)?  The only thing visually different would be the pants and maybe the boots if the person decided to wear the green suede boots.  Also, an unrelated question, but what do you fly?

[Hawk200]

You're right, I'm not familiar with that expression and I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. 

No worries. It's a pretty old expression, and apparently has fallen into disuse. Just me showing my age, I guess.

I also agree with you in that they are not the same uniform.  In terms of blending in, do you think it's still an issue if an individual wearing ABUs had on ACU gear (i.e. IBA w/ DAPs, MICH/ACH, etc.)?  The only thing visually different would be the pants and maybe the boots if the person decided to wear the green suede boots. 

I can tell subtle differences between a lot shades, but if you go putting two different camo patterns on a single body, it's gonna be a little obvious to more people. They're just different.

Not one I normally think about, but another issue was that whenever Airmen were provided (such as ILO's) or directly supported (such as ROMAD's, Weather, and I think CCT's and PJ's) the Army, then the Army was responsible for all logistics for those personnel. That means they had to supply everything from what that airman wore, where they slept, and what they ate. For the Army, it was a simple matter of "We had  to order the special rank insignia, but here's your ACU's." It made much of the logistics much simpler. Now the Air Force personnel supporting the Army have some more hassles when it comes to service specific uniforms. And potentially some non-availability of items issues.

Also, an unrelated question, but what do you fly?

I'm not a pilot, if that's what you're asking, but I fly on Blackhawks as aircrew. As aircrew, I have to wear the same Nomex and survival gear as the pilots (Actually, I have to wear another hard plate in my body armor, as my seat backs aren't ballistic.) The A2CU's are a wierd meld of the flightsuit and ACU's, and they don't wear like either one. They've taken a little getting used to.

[afgeo4]

I'm all for this uniform for USA and USAF:

General shape and cut of the current ACU with slanted pockets on breast, cargo pockets on arms and 4 cargo pockets on legs. Mandarin Collar (buttoned) with zipper replaced by buttons. Sew on nametapes and branch tapes. Velcro patches on shoulders and IR pocket. Multicam pattern. Current fabric with reinforced seat and crotch. Sage green boots. Interior chest pocket like in ABU. Pen/flashlight pockets on both arms. No lower pockets on blouse. Current ABU sizing chart with male and female sizes for better fit.

Having said that, here are my primary reasons to spend money on ABUs:
1. No ironing
2. No shining boots

Nothing else changes with the new uniform, but those two reasons are pretty darn good to me, especially during encampment where ironing isn't accessible and there just isn't enough time to shine boots every day.

[RiverAux]

I have every confidence that at some point ironing will become expected for these uniforms just like every other. 

[JarakMaldon]

I have every confidence that at some point ironing will become expected for these uniforms just like every other. 

Having worn the ABU for a few months now, I disagree.  I can honestly say that the uniform looks outstanding right out of the dryer.  The permanent press creases stay in despite several washings.   

[LittleIronPilot]

Well as both former military, and a current taxpayer, I will say this:

WE NEED ONE FREAKING UNIFORM!

Oh, I took what he was saying to mean one uniform across the board for all the armed services. Instead of having a separate one for each branch which costs more money to design, wear test, and deploy.

I was...not a singular CAP uniform, but one across all of the armed forces (for daily/combat wear, we can allow the Marines to keep their bellhop uniforms! )

[lordmonar]

I have every confidence that at some point ironing will become expected for these uniforms just like every other. 

Having worn the ABU for a few months now, I disagree.  I can honestly say that the uniform looks outstanding right out of the dryer.  The permanent press creases stay in despite several washings.   

I've gone TDY with the ABU a couple of times....I rolled it up in my carry one luggage, pulled it out and it looked great.

Yes it is hotter than BDUs, yes pens in the arm poke poke me in the bicep, yes it's not at "cool" as the ACU/MARPAT but the zero maintenance of the uniform out weights these factors 10 to 1.

[Hawk200]

I'm all for this uniform for USA and USAF:

General shape and cut of the current ACU with slanted pockets on breast, cargo pockets on arms and 4 cargo pockets on legs. Mandarin Collar (buttoned) with zipper replaced by buttons. Sew on nametapes and branch tapes. Velcro patches on shoulders and IR pocket. Multicam pattern. Current fabric with reinforced seat and crotch. Sage green boots. Interior chest pocket like in ABU. Pen/flashlight pockets on both arms. No lower pockets on blouse. Current ABU sizing chart with male and female sizes for better fit.

Having said that, here are my primary reasons to spend money on ABUs:
1. No ironing
2. No shining boots

Nothing else changes with the new uniform, but those two reasons are pretty darn good to me, especially during encampment where ironing isn't accessible and there just isn't enough time to shine boots every day.

I'd agree with just about everything, except the sage green boots. Until the AF came up with it, there was no sage green leather. Tan boots are easily made, and don't require a dye job.

Gender specific sizes would be a very smart and practical thing. I always thought there should be a men's small regular, medium regular, etc; and a women's small regular, medium regular, and so on. Wouldn't be too hard, and wouldn't increase the uniform stock like the 200+ sizes that the AF decided to go to.

As for Multicam, I've seen it in many photos in various environments, and it actually seems to be fairly effective, except for pure urban environments.

As far as Multicam is concerned, there's this: http://www.1800nametape.com/multicam.htm

Seems like the accoutrements are already available. Just wondering who in the Army is wearing it. There wouldn't be a supply if there wasn't some kind of demand.

[WWIntel]

Also, an unrelated question, but what do you fly?

I'm not a pilot, if that's what you're asking, but I fly on Blackhawks as aircrew. As aircrew, I have to wear the same Nomex and survival gear as the pilots (Actually, I have to wear another hard plate in my body armor, as my seat backs aren't ballistic.) The A2CU's are a wierd meld of the flightsuit and ACU's, and they don't wear like either one. They've taken a little getting used to.

I haven't seen A2CUs in person yet.  I flew on a few Army UH-60s about a year or so ago and IIRC they were still wearing the 1-piece nomex suits.  Here's another question for you...what's up with the "Darth Vader" masks that the aircrew wear?

[Hawk200]

I haven't seen A2CUs in person yet.  I flew on a few Army UH-60s about a year or so ago and IIRC they were still wearing the 1-piece nomex suits.  Here's another question for you...what's up with the "Darth Vader" masks that the aircrew wear?

The Maxillo Facial shield. Here's a link to the manufacturer:

http://www.gentexcorp.com/default.aspx?pageid=931

Most of what I would have to say would simply be repeating their info.

They do cut down on noise while on the intercom. That's a particular annoyance to most of us. I haven't gotten my shield yet, they're backordered.

Here's a link on the A2CU: http://peosoldier.army.mil/factsheets/SEQ_CIE_A2CU.pdf

[afgeo4]

I'm all for this uniform for USA and USAF:

General shape and cut of the current ACU with slanted pockets on breast, cargo pockets on arms and 4 cargo pockets on legs. Mandarin Collar (buttoned) with zipper replaced by buttons. Sew on nametapes and branch tapes. Velcro patches on shoulders and IR pocket. Multicam pattern. Current fabric with reinforced seat and crotch. Sage green boots. Interior chest pocket like in ABU. Pen/flashlight pockets on both arms. No lower pockets on blouse. Current ABU sizing chart with male and female sizes for better fit.

Having said that, here are my primary reasons to spend money on ABUs:
1. No ironing
2. No shining boots

Nothing else changes with the new uniform, but those two reasons are pretty darn good to me, especially during encampment where ironing isn't accessible and there just isn't enough time to shine boots every day.

I'd agree with just about everything, except the sage green boots. Until the AF came up with it, there was no sage green leather. Tan boots are easily made, and don't require a dye job.

Gender specific sizes would be a very smart and practical thing. I always thought there should be a men's small regular, medium regular, etc; and a women's small regular, medium regular, and so on. Wouldn't be too hard, and wouldn't increase the uniform stock like the 200+ sizes that the AF decided to go to.

As for Multicam, I've seen it in many photos in various environments, and it actually seems to be fairly effective, except for pure urban environments.

As far as Multicam is concerned, there's this: http://www.1800nametape.com/multicam.htm

Seems like the accoutrements are already available. Just wondering who in the Army is wearing it. There wouldn't be a supply if there wasn't some kind of demand.

Multicam is being wear tested by special operations forces. There is also a test going through the Army Battle Lab in Natick. Many soldiers are buying them up on their own and trying them. Of course, multicam isn't authorized yet, so they wear it for fun in the field instead of in formation or garrison. I've heard nothing but rave reviews as far as the pattern and camouflage goes.