Better get used to the BDU - and some thoughts (rant?)

[Eclipse]

Yes.  we're all very excited for you.

Making something "Required", doesn't make it "necessary".

Most of CAP, NESA, many flight academies, and the vast majority of the GA community fly in
goldf shirts, and even shorts (CAP too), but CAWG wing apparently needs to be different.

[Luis R. Ramos]

...gold shirts...

Is that why their uniforms are so expensive?

[Eclipse]

...gold shirts...

Is that why their uniforms are so expensive?

Weirdest thing - when I type, "golf" is almost always "gold" and "you" is almost always "yo".

[Alaric]

The much hated / exalted golf shirt / tactical pants combo fulfills 95% of the need for 95% of CAP missions, including
95% or SAR, including, but not limited to:

Everything AE.

>ALL FLYING< ALL. Every flight, in every wing.

All unit meetings, staff meetings, round tables, drill practices, IACE, flight academies, SLS/CLS/UCC/TLC/RSC/NSC, National board meetings, commanders calls, planning meetings.

99% of NCSAs

99% of encampment activities.

It is also the preferred dress for a significant number of other agencies that CAP works with on
even a semi-regular basis, especially most EMAs, FDs, and a lot of LEAs.

Anything more is affectation, or clothing worn outside of its intended purpose, which is the antithesis
of a mission-focused uniform.  This isn't going to change, because form is clearly more important then
function, but the sooner this is understood and accepted, the better for everyone's mental health.

You need to get out more and preface your absolute statements with they are just your opinion.

Eclipse is not wrong.  It annoys me that the regulations require I own, at a minimum, the white shirt uniform.  I never wear it, and I have never seen a need beyond the golf shirt

[umpirecali]

Nothing above is disputable.

Listen up CAP world Eclipse has spoken. Thanks for making my case.  With your absolute, black and white, linear thinking you must be a joy to work with.  Carry on with your bullying bluster.

Yet you didn't present one example of how he is wrong.  Name one thing we do on a regular basis that can't or shouldn't be done in tac pants and a polo ... Granted i wish our polls were made out of a more modern lighter mesh or wicking fabric

[PA Guy]

Nothing above is disputable.

Listen up CAP world Eclipse has spoken. Thanks for making my case.  With your absolute, black and white, linear thinking you must be a joy to work with.  Carry on with your bullying bluster.

Yet you didn't present one example of how he is wrong.  Name one thing we do on a regular basis that can't or shouldn't be done in tac pants and a polo ... Granted i wish our polls were made out of a more modern lighter mesh or wicking fabric

Well the fact he stated nothing he said was disputable might have influenced me. But for you I will offer my opinion.

IACE participants wear slacks and polos but also have a formal uniform. Somehow being introduced to the Chief of Staff of the Belgian Air Force or other country at a formal dinner wearing tac pants just doesn't cut it.

COS is conducted on Maxwell AFB at the Sqdn Officers College. The AF UOD is short sleeve shirts. While this activity is for cadets seniors should as close as possible to the cadets they are working with.

NSC. See above for location and UOD.

RSC.  See above for those held on a military base.

Graduation ceremonies for the above

Encampment.  Seniors should be in the same uniform AF/Corp as the cadets.  Seniors standing on the reviewing stand or receiving an award would be insulting the cadets who busted their butts for a week to look squared away and a senior wanders up in tac pants and a polo or even slacks and a polo.

National Board Banquet.  It is clearly inappropriate to wear tac pants and a polo to that.  The only thing that could make it worse would be blousing one's boots. A coat and tie would suffice.

Wing Conf. Banquet.  See above.

Any senior who works regularly with cadets should be in the AF/Corp version of what the cadets are wearing.  As I said just my opinion

[SarDragon]

I think that about covers the tower fly-by.

[lordmonar]

Nothing above is disputable.

Listen up CAP world Eclipse has spoken. Thanks for making my case.  With your absolute, black and white, linear thinking you must be a joy to work with.  Carry on with your bullying bluster.

Yet you didn't present one example of how he is wrong.  Name one thing we do on a regular basis that can't or shouldn't be done in tac pants and a polo ... Granted i wish our polls were made out of a more modern lighter mesh or wicking fabric

IMHO ground teams should not be done in tac pants and polo.  You should have a long sleeve and durable shirt for ground team operations and the polo shirt just does not cover it.

So...other then that.....Eclipses statements are true......but his assessment and his judgmental attitude about it being an affection or antithesis of a mission focus uniform is just wrong.

a) No one has ever said that "mission focus" was the only or even the main purpose of any of the uniforms.
b) All "uniforms" are an affection........if all we really cared about was getting the job done.....we would not care what you wore.
c) His judgmental attitude is counter productive to the discussion of "fixing" the uniform problem....which I think was PA Guy's point.   

[Eclipse]

Nothing above is disputable.

Listen up CAP world Eclipse has spoken. Thanks for making my case.  With your absolute, black and white, linear thinking you must be a joy to work with.  Carry on with your bullying bluster.

Yet you didn't present one example of how he is wrong.  Name one thing we do on a regular basis that can't or shouldn't be done in tac pants and a polo ... Granted i wish our polls were made out of a more modern lighter mesh or wicking fabric

Well the fact he stated nothing he said was disputable might have influenced me. But for you I will offer my opinion.

IACE participants wear slacks and polos but also have a formal uniform. Somehow being introduced to the Chief of Staff of the Belgian Air Force or other country at a formal dinner wearing tac pants just doesn't cut it.

COS is conducted on Maxwell AFB at the Sqdn Officers College. The AF UOD is short sleeve shirts. While this activity is for cadets seniors should as close as possible to the cadets they are working with.

NSC. See above for location and UOD.

RSC.  See above for those held on a military base.

Graduation ceremonies for the above

Encampment.  Seniors should be in the same uniform AF/Corp as the cadets.  Seniors standing on the reviewing stand or receiving an award would be insulting the cadets who busted their butts for a week to look squared away and a senior wanders up in tac pants and a polo or even slacks and a polo.

National Board Banquet.  It is clearly inappropriate to wear tac pants and a polo to that.  The only thing that could make it worse would be blousing one's boots. A coat and tie would suffice.

Wing Conf. Banquet.  See above.

Any senior who works regularly with cadets should be in the AF/Corp version of what the cadets are wearing.  As I said just my opinion

I said 95%.

The above concurs with my assertion.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Impress the Belgian Air Force commander...

Lets see, according to the Wikipedia, the total personnel of the BAF is 8,600.

According to National Headquarters, we number Cadet, 24513 and Senior, 34473 (as of 31 May 2014).

Nope, I do not want to impress a force we outnumber in personnel and about match in size of airplanes (even if among those airplanes there are a few F-16s).

[Garibaldi]

The long and the short of it is, Eclipse is a very, very opinionated man.

Most of what he says here is based on his experience.

A lot of people here disagree with his opinions, myself included at times.

However, I see a lot of merit in his posts, and I agree with a few of them. Most don't.

It's like trying to give an explanation of why the sky is blue. Some give reasons, such as "It is the reflection of the oceans" and while it sounds good, it just ain't right. Yet others say "The sky is blue because when the light wave hits out atmosphere, the blue wave moves the slowest, and that is why." but that doesn't explain why the sun is still orange or the moon appears white when we see it during the day. Others simply don't care, it is what it is, that's it, let's move on. And an even smaller group says "God/The FSM/The Great Pumpkin made it that way" and won't listen to any other viewpoints.

Eclipse is the way he is, either right or wrong, but he defends his points with fact and reason, while some respond to him with invective and vitriol. Who looks more foolish, the man with the facts and figures on his side and has done the research, or the man who sneers and says "you're out of your mind?"

Personally, right or wrong, I usually side with the rational minds.

[LSThiker]

Granted i wish our polls were made out of a more modern lighter mesh or wicking fabric

Well cotton is a terrible fabric now that we have synthetic blends.  Have you considered creating a proposal to change the fabric of the polo shirt?  It is not like we are limited on choices for that uniform.

Although I do not agree with dropping the BDUs, but I could see a lot of seniors getting behind just wearing the polo shirts or having a polo shirt and a dress uniform.  Echoing a similar question, has any one ever proposed this idea?  A lot of ideas, some good and some bad, are discussed on forums, but they usually go no where beyond the cyber world.  Yet people get upset about CAP not changing. 

[Luis R. Ramos]

Lets see how many will start arguing we will need a change in regs to use that new version of the polo!

[JoeTomasone]

The much hated / exalted golf shirt / tactical pants combo fulfills 95% of the need for 95% of CAP missions, including
95% or SAR, including, but not limited to:

Everything AE.

>ALL FLYING< ALL. Every flight, in every wing.

All unit meetings, staff meetings, round tables, drill practices, IACE, flight academies, SLS/CLS/UCC/TLC/RSC/NSC, National board meetings, commanders calls, planning meetings.

99% of NCSAs

99% of encampment activities.

It is also the preferred dress for a significant number of other agencies that CAP works with on
even a semi-regular basis, especially most EMAs, FDs, and a lot of LEAs.

Anything more is affectation, or clothing worn outside of its intended purpose, which is the antithesis
of a mission-focused uniform.  This isn't going to change, because form is clearly more important then
function, but the sooner this is understood and accepted, the better for everyone's mental health.

So you are saying that the other uniforms are only suited for ES?

Well, at least we'd save a lot of money..  No need to buy grade insignia or ribbons, and we can just trash the PD structure since you'll never wear the fruits of it on your golf shirt.   Eliminates CAPR 39-3 as well!

[Devil Doc]

Just buy a Blue Golf Shirt and get the CAP logo imprinted on it. I would, that way you can have your "Synthetic" fabric

[PHall]

Just buy a Blue Golf Shirt and get the CAP logo imprinted on it. I would, that way you can have your "Synthetic" fabric

You DARE to try to cut Vanguard out of the loop so they can't get their cut?

Keep an eye out for those black vans...

[Eclipse]

So you are saying that the other uniforms are only suited for ES?

No, that is not what I said.

What I said was that 95% of the missions and activities CAP is involved in, including 95% of SAR
and 100% of flying, can be done in the golf shirt and tac pants.

And as a mater of fact, for a fair amount of members, 100% of their CAP activities already occurs in that uniform, including
the formal events (not saying that's "right") because that is all they own.

Further to that, many of the organizations we aspire to, work with, or compare ourselves to,
wear nothing but a similar uniform, some ever, some regularly.

So if CAP is going to raise the bar on uniform expectations, add-in expensive combinations, and generally
spend people's money, the emphasis should be on mission performance, not affectation and affinity, it should
be a uniform, not a fashion show, there should be prescriptions, not "choices" (i.e. "you will", not "you should"),
and the rules should be the same for all and not treated like a suggestion, especially leaders in visible
positions of influence.

Well, at least we'd save a lot of money..  No need to buy grade insignia or ribbons, and we can just trash the PD structure since you'll never wear the fruits of it on your golf shirt.   Eliminates CAPR 39-3 as well!

Where do I sign?

[Eclipse]

Just buy a Blue Golf Shirt and get the CAP logo imprinted on it. I would, that way you can have your "Synthetic" fabric

My kids and wife have the BSA Microfiber shirts - this type of thing is the result
of people caring about function over form, without sacrificing either.

It's super-light, dries from full-soaked in about ten minutes just hanging up,
and it has a vent panel on the back for hot days.  It's admittedly more difficult
to sew, but only if you don't take your time.

That and the cargo pants with the zip-off shorts.

What do CAP cadets wear in the summer, regardless of the weather and during most
activities that don't have a uniform waiver? 

Dark-colored camo and black t-shirts.

The math is yours to do.

[Garibaldi]

Just buy a Blue Golf Shirt and get the CAP logo imprinted on it. I would, that way you can have your "Synthetic" fabric

My kids and wife have the BSA Microfiber shirts - this type of thing is the result
of people carrying about function over form, without sacrificing either.

Agreed.

It's super-light, dries from full-soaked in about ten minutes just hanging up,
and it has a vent panel on the back for hot days.  It's admittedly more difficult
to sew, but only if you don't take your time.

That and the cargo pants with the zip-off shorts.

Shorts? SIGN ME UP!

What do CAP cadets wear in the summer, regardless of the weather and during most
activities that don't have a uniform waiver? 

Dark-colored camo and black t-shirts.

The math is yours to do.

Done and dusted. I would LOVE to have a shorts option with the Polo.

[JoeTomasone]

activities that don't have a uniform waiver? 

"Uniform waiver"?  What does that mean?