New 39-1

[TexasCadet]

Look at the colors.

The blouse is bluer than the hat!

Flyer

Very similar color.

[Panache]

Does this mean Godwin's Law has been invoked?

[ol'fido]

I don't believe so. The German Air Force is currently called the Luftwaffe. No Godwin issues there.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Direct copy from Post #188:

...like something the WWII Luftwaffe would wear.

Emphasis mine, of his written words. Now, can I invoke Godwin's Law?

Flyer

[TexasCadet]

Okay, I'll say this again. I never said that West Point cadets look like the Luftwaffe. I said that hat looked like a hat the Luftwaffe might wear. The colors for the hat and the Luftwaffe uniform look similar. I might have been wrong. However, I will repeat myself:  I NEVER SAID WEST POINT CADETS LOOK LIKE THE LUFTWAFFE.

My quote:

That looks like something the WWII Luftwaffe would wear.

^This is what I said. No more, no less.

[NIN]

So, yeah, how about them photographs?

[TexasCadet]

The photographs for the new 39-1? I hope they are better. For lack of a better term, the ones in the current 39-1 look like crap.

My personal hope for the new 39-1 is that they allow ABUs (I know I'm a minority about this on this forum). At least allow us to wear Velcro patches. Easy on, easy off. (Again, I am a minority.)

[Eclipse]

So, yeah, how about them photographs?

Still looking for a Fotomat...

[The Infamous Meerkat]

The photographs for the new 39-1? I hope they are better. For lack of a better term, the ones in the current 39-1 look like crap.

My personal hope for the new 39-1 is that they allow ABUs (I know I'm a minority about this on this forum). At least allow us to wear Velcro patches. Easy on, easy off. (Again, I am a minority.)

Not crap, just way too outdated to be of anything but very selective use.

And you're the minority for good reason my friend, you want us to switch to a uniform that looks 'cooler' in your opinion, but is of little use to us any way. There is no supply for us to leech off of like we do the BDU's, it isn't any safer for us to use, and velcro doesn't offer us any useful purpose either. Our patches have set locations and once sewn on, rarely need to be taken off again. Unless you change wings every month or go to twenty special activities per year, there isn't any good reason to use velcro.

Not bashing your opinions, cadet, merely showing you the other side of the fence. 

[TexasCadet]

The photographs for the new 39-1? I hope they are better. For lack of a better term, the ones in the current 39-1 look like crap.

My personal hope for the new 39-1 is that they allow ABUs (I know I'm a minority about this on this forum). At least allow us to wear Velcro patches. Easy on, easy off. (Again, I am a minority.)

Not crap, just way too outdated to be of anything but very selective use.

And you're the minority for good reason my friend, you want us to switch to a uniform that looks 'cooler' in your opinion, but is of little use to us any way. There is no supply for us to leech off of like we do the BDU's, it isn't any safer for us to use, and velcro doesn't offer us any useful purpose either. Our patches have set locations and once sewn on, rarely need to be taken off again. Unless you change wings every month or go to twenty special activities per year, there isn't any good reason to use velcro.

Not bashing your opinions, cadet, merely showing you the other side of the fence. 

I didn't think you were bashing my opinion. There's always more than one side.

Okay, so skip the Velcro. ABUs are pratical for SAR. We aren't hiding, so why not wear something so we stand out against [insert terrain]?

[Patterson]

And you're the minority for good reason my friend, you want us to switch to a uniform that looks 'cooler' in your opinion, but is of little use to us any way. There is no supply for us to leech off of like we do the BDU's, it isn't any safer for us to use, and velcro doesn't offer us any useful purpose either. Our patches have set locations and once sewn on, rarely need to be taken off again. Unless you change wings every month or go to twenty special activities per year, there isn't any good reason to use velcro.

Not bashing your opinions, cadet, merely showing you the other side of the fence. 

Your side of the fence differs from reality a little.  Who said there is no supply for CAP to leech off of?  Have you walked into a DLA Reutilization activity lately?  I have been in two during the past five months and have seen thousands of ABUs sitting on pallets waiting to be disposed of.  BDUs are dead, the local stock your unit may have might be an exception, but the DoD has not processed BDUs through Reutilization or disposition facilities for over a year. Eventually the BDU stock will dry up and members will be forced to purchase BDU style uniforms at prices higher than currently offered.

Supply and demand my friend, it's all about economics in regard to the upcoming decision to begin transitioning to the ABU.

I would also like to address your "safer" statement. The temperature at which ABUs burn/ melt is considerably higher than the temperature BDUs burn/ melt.  Technology is a fantastic thing, and the ABU was created with knowledge and technologies 30 years after the BDU was undergoing R&D.

Please explain how the ABU is of little prospective use to the CAP? 

[arajca]

DLA may have pallets of ABUs, but CAP cannot - at this time - draw them. CAP is not authorized, per DoD policy, to use the ABU. Therefore, there is no supply for CAP to leech off. There's a whole 'nother discussion about this.

[Eclipse]

By far the vast majority of members, including cadets, purchase their uniforms from commercial sources.  Sources which are no
more, or less, plentiful or expensive today then they have been in the recent past.

DLA and DRMO are not currently allowed for CAP in regards to any field uniforms, and even if that restriction were lifted,
would still be a non-factor for the majority of units because they aren't anywhere near those facilities.  Even those states
which are able to take advantage of DRMO / DLA cast-offs have their own logistical issues.  A pallet of used uniforms
6-8 hours away is functionally useless to a member who needs a uniform in a reasonable amount of time, and there's
no guarantee of size, etc.  Those opportunities are a nice-have which may or may never return.

Fire?  Seriously?  That's like the nomex argument for GA flying.  Technically correct, and irrelevant.  And in this case "less flammable does
not equal innonflammable".

The only purpose that ABUs would serve is service affinity, and at the sacrifice of safety in regards to field use for GTs (which isn't
even he majority of embers, so why do they need field uniforms to start with).

[TexasCadet]

Flammable and inflammable mean the same thing.

[Eclipse]

!@#$%! Latin!

[SARDOC]

DLA may have pallets of ABUs, but CAP cannot - at this time - draw them.

Very True

CAP is not authorized, per DoD policy, to use the ABU.

Not exactly.  DOD is Prohibited from supplying them to us under the current interpretation of the Memo that is being cited.  We aren't restricted from using them.  We could get them from a NON-DoD source (or at least an undistiguishable replica.)  The only thing that restricts us from using them is CAP's current uniform policy and CAP/USAF approval procedure.

Technical difference, but yes, has the same overall impact.

[Panache]

...and velcro doesn't offer us any useful purpose either. Our patches have set locations and once sewn on, rarely need to be taken off again. Unless you change wings every month or go to twenty special activities per year, there isn't any good reason to use velcro.

Well, it's handy to be able to remove all identifying patches on our uniforms when a CAP plane is shot down and the pilot and crew are taken prisoner.

{closed captions for the humor-impaired:  }

[Eclipse]

Well, it's handy to be able to remove all identifying patches on our uniforms when a CAP plane is shot down and the pilot and crew are taken prisoner.

Or their Rascal Scooter runs out of batteries and they find themselves in a hostile environment (like a Dunkin with an empty gift card).

[MSG Mac]

...and velcro doesn't offer us any useful purpose either. Our patches have set locations and once sewn on, rarely need to be taken off again. Unless you change wings every month or go to twenty special activities per year, there isn't any good reason to use velcro.

Well, it's handy to be able to remove all identifying patches on our uniforms when a CAP plane is shot down and the pilot and crew are taken prisoner.

{closed captions for the humor-impaired:  }

You don't want to remove the patches, they're what makes the difference between a POW/Internee and an unaccredited guerrilla, who can be shot on capture.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

As someone fluent auf Deutsch, the Luftwaffe Uniformenfarben is not grey...not in WWII, and not in today's Bundesluftwaffe.

The Bundesluftwaffe uniform is Graublau (grey-blue), very similar in cut and colour to their WWII counterparts, de-Nazified of course.

This is a close-up photo of a Bundesluftwaffe service dress of an Oberstleutnant (Lieutenant Colonel), with de-Nazified WWII ribbons.



This Deutsche Demokratische Republik Luftstreitkräfte Oberstleutnant's Dienstuniform is Steingrau (stone grey), with the only "air force"element being the piping and collar devices.



The Schiffchen currently worn by the Luftwaffe is clearly Graublau as well.



How does all this relate to CAP?

Well, the East Germans, as illustrated, were equally enamoured with grey as CAP seems to be.

A CAP service dress could roughly follow the East German model (in colours only, NOT insignia) in being grey with blue accoutrements...though I wonder if even that would be too much for the "low-light" fundamentalists.

Of course, we know that will not happen.

As for "getting away" with wearing the West Point cap...one would probably do better at getting an East German flight cap (dirt cheap on Evilbay), removing the national insignia and wearing that.  The grey is almost identical to our rank slides and nameplate.