My BBDU experiment: after two years, I be done with this nonsense

[Shuman 14]

Too much Turkey last night Dave I see. 

[Storm Chaser]

I hope we never go back to wearing khakis. I'm glad the majority of our active members probably agree.

[TexasCadet]

What's wrong with a khaki uniform (outside the fact that none of the services wear it)?

[Private Investigator]

I do not think anything is wrong with the khaki uniform. It will be specific to CAP.

The downside to the USAF blues is the overweight Senior Members who insists on wearing it. 

[Storm Chaser]

What's wrong with a khaki uniform (outside the fact that none of the services wear it)?

The Navy has a khaki uniform combination and the Marines have another one with a khaki shirt. That said, there's nothing wrong with the uniform per se. As the U.S. Air Force Auxiliary, we've been wearing blue uniforms for a long time. Unfortunately, not everyone of our members can wear it. We definitely need to find a better option for these folks, but I'm not sure khaki is the way to go. Some may like it; others, myself included, definitely not.

I would prefer the Air Force to make some concessions or CAP to find a uniform solution that provides true uniformity throughout the organization, without completely turning it's back on our Air Force affiliation and heritage. I don't the see the Air Force ever going back to a khaki uniform and don't think CAP should either. Of course, this is just my opinion.

[Shuman 14]

What's wrong with a khaki uniform (outside the fact that none of the services wear it)?

The Navy has a khaki uniform combination and the Marines have another one with a khaki shirt. That said, there's nothing wrong with the uniform per se. As the U.S. Air Force Auxiliary, we've been wearing blue uniforms for a long time. Unfortunately, not everyone of our members can wear it. We definitely need to find a better option for these folks, but I'm not sure khaki is the way to go. Some may like it; others, myself included, definitely not.

I would prefer the Air Force to make some concessions or CAP to find a uniform solution that provides true uniformity throughout the organization, without completely turning it's back on our Air Force affiliation and heritage. I don't the see the Air Force ever going back to a khaki uniform and don't think CAP should either. Of course, this is just my opinion.

While I like khaki, and I see the historical link to CAP's very beginning in it, I'm open to suggestions.

If you don't like khaki, and you recognize that the USAF style will not work for everyone... what do you suggest CAP adopt as a single corporate uniform that keeps it's USAF link, recognizes it's history and would be acceptable to all members?

[SarDragon]

What's wrong with a khaki uniform (outside the fact that none of the services wear it)?

I wore khaki uniforms as a cadet, and didn't like them. The fabrics were hard to care for, and as a cadet uniform, got dirty far to easily, especially the trousers. Even with modern fabrics, the dirt factor still exists. Most of the Navy folks I know dislike khakis for the same reason.

[Private Investigator]

What's wrong with a khaki uniform (outside the fact that none of the services wear it)?

I wore khaki uniforms as a cadet, and didn't like them. The fabrics were hard to care for, and as a cadet uniform, got dirty far to easily, especially the trousers. Even with modern fabrics, the dirt factor still exists. Most of the Navy folks I know dislike khakis for the same reason.

I wore a khaki uniform in the Army Guard and my first police academy we wore khakis. No different from any other uniform, JMHO. 

[SarDragon]

Diff strokes, diff folks. YMMV.

[SARDOC]

I've also worn Khaki's and they were easier to maintain than the Current White/Grey combo.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

So an alternative must be found. I personally liked your Corporate Blue Service Uniform, I didn't agree with rule that said no Military decorations and badges on it, but other than that I thought it was a sharp uniform.

Martial but not military.

But the Air Force didn't like it, to close to comfort for them, so back to the drawing board you go.

Actually, we were never told why the CSU was killed...only that we could not wear it any more, and our then-national CC, Major General Amy Courter, released a PowerPoint at the time that contained a statement saying "corporate uniforms do not exist to provide a military-style alternative," or words to that effect.  I do not remember the exact wording.  However, my belief is that it was killed solely because of its connection to a former (dismissed) CAP National Commander who designed it, and the powers that be at National were trying to remove all vestiges of his tenure.

The Air Force accepted it.  They made suggestions about what they did not want (metal rank on flight cap, U.S. cutouts), and CAP complied.  They could have said right then and there "you cannot wear this, it is too close to ours," but they did not.

We were never told, nor are we ever likely to find out, the real reason, beyond rumour, hearsay and Bravo Sierra on CT.

I do not believe that there will ever be a universal, throughout-CAP uniform other than the current grey/white kit, which I thoroughly loathe.  It is monochromatic, has no kind of aviation stylistic connection and has a very wide appeal based on its cheapness, ease to acquire (since it is not standardised, one can cobble the components together at your local Salvation Army, St. Vince's, etc., badge it correctly and be in compliance), the fact that virtually anyone in CAP can wear it (including cadets over 18) regardless of hirsuteness or lack of svelteness.

Try making suggestions for even smallish changes to that uniform here on CT and watch the knives come out.  I personally have suggested adding a small bit of colour viz. a civilian blue airline shirt (available at Sporty's Pilot Shop and the like), and accoutrements like a pullover dark-blue civilian "wooly pully" jumper and immediately it goes onto the "oh, no, it will make the Air Force mad!"  Civilian, off-the-rack available...and it will make the Air Force mad.



Even suggesting a cap (usually a flight cap, or, less so, a beret) for this combo usually elicits reactions like "we don't need no steeenking hats!"

So, to suggest that CAP propose this or that as an alternative uniform is an exercise in academia only.  The status quo is too far entrenched, and the status quo is grey.

As I said in another post, I once had a complete proposal ready to go up the chain, but I gave it up simply because it was much more likely to end up in a File 13 somewhere between Squadron and Maxwell.

[Panache]

Oddly enough, that's just what I was thinking today.

Okay, fine, I completely get that Ma Blue doesn't want the fatties and the furries to be seen wearing "official" USAF uniforms.  I get that.

And a significant number of folks chafe at the idea of khakis.

But how about just making the shirt a different shade of blue?  Maybe a darker shade, like cerulean blue or sapphire blue.  Pair it with navy blue trousers and the flight cap and now you have a single uniform that all the members can wear.

[The Infamous Meerkat]

To be honest, I would not be insulted in the slightest if they put us in 50' era pinks and greens that are on that previous photo.... That was a beautiful uniform combo.

My 2 cents...

[Panache]

All I want for Christmas is a new 39-1....

[a2capt]

So you want to go from something that's not horribly hard to get, and for all considerations .. mainstream, to something that's hardly available at all, and would be a niche of niches.

..and you all complain about the prices of ABUs.

That's a hoot.

[Panache]

I am assuming you're speaking to CyBorg, since I never complained about the price of ABU's.  But I am confused none the less.

Current scheme: About half of the Senior membership is barred from wearing the AF blue uniform for whatever reason.  I hesitate to use the word "uniform" because there's nothing that signifies a unified membership at all other than gray grade slides and some pins.

Suggestion: All Senior Members transition to khakis.  Answer: Horrible idea because (fill in the blank).

Suggestion: Uniform shirt changes from official USAF blue to different shade of blue that all members can wear.  Answer: Horrible idea because (fill in the blank... in this case "because it's too much of a niche product").

So... what do you suggest?

I don't mean this as a personal comment, a2capt, but I'm strongly starting to suspect that the "haves" are quite happy with the way things are, and would much rather keep their privileged status intact.  Of course, they'll deny this.  But it's hard not to make this conclusion based on what I'm observing.

My suggestion: get rid of the uniforms, except maybe the polos.  Period.  Done.  Over.  Problem solved.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

So you want to go from something that's not horribly hard to get, and for all considerations .. mainstream, to something that's hardly available at all, and would be a niche of niches.

..and you all complain about the prices of ABUs.

That's a hoot.

Fallacy of hasty generalisation.

Define "mainstream."  How are white and grey more "mainstream" than different shades of blue?

And I have said nothing about the price of ABU's.  It is irrelevant to me if we ever get them.

Suggestion: All Senior Members transition to khakis.  Answer: Horrible idea because (fill in the blank).

Suggestion: Uniform shirt changes from official USAF blue to different shade of blue that all members can wear.  Answer: Horrible idea because (fill in the blank... in this case "because it's too much of a niche product").

Horrible idea because it is a change from the status quo...and the status quo is grey.

Those who scream blue murder about someone suggesting metal grade insignia or blue rank slides either forget or choose not to remember that we had those, with full AF approval, until the early 1990s.

[spaatzmom]

What's wrong with a khaki uniform (outside the fact that none of the services wear it)?

The Navy has a khaki uniform combination and the Marines have another one with a khaki shirt. That said, there's nothing wrong with the uniform per se. As the U.S. Air Force Auxiliary, we've been wearing blue uniforms for a long time. Unfortunately, not everyone of our members can wear it. We definitely need to find a better option for these folks, but I'm not sure khaki is the way to go. Some may like it; others, myself included, definitely not.

I would prefer the Air Force to make some concessions or CAP to find a uniform solution that provides true uniformity throughout the organization, without completely turning it's back on our Air Force affiliation and heritage. I don't the see the Air Force ever going back to a khaki uniform and don't think CAP should either. Of course, this is just my opinion.

While I like khaki, and I see the historical link to CAP's very beginning in it, I'm open to suggestions.

If you don't like khaki, and you recognize that the USAF style will not work for everyone... what do you suggest CAP adopt as a single corporate uniform that keeps it's USAF link, recognizes it's history and would be acceptable to all members?

I would like to ask you a question.  Since you are a Patron status member, why are you getting your tighty whities in such a knot about a uniform that you cannot wear?  I am not being insulting in any way, but it strikes me as though you want the general membership to bow to your beliefs and not the current regulations.  You are a new, this year, member with the most restrictions being a patron. Patron members may not participate in any activities, duty assignments, or in CAP professional development.  Patrons are not permitted to wear the CAP uniform at any time nor can they be promoted while a Patron.   So what is the real motive here?

[Eclipse]

I would like to ask you a question.  Since you are a Patron status member, why are you getting your tighty whities in such a knot about a uniform that you cannot wear?  I am not being insulting in any way, but it strikes me as though you want the general membership to bow to your beliefs and not the current regulations.  You are a new, this year, member with the most restrictions being a patron. Patron members may not participate in any activities, duty assignments, or in CAP professional development.  Patrons are not permitted to wear the CAP uniform at any time nor can they be promoted while a Patron.   So what is the real motive here?

Bandwidth intersecting boredom.

[Storm Chaser]

I would like to ask you a question.  Since you are a Patron status member, why are you getting your tighty whities in such a knot about a uniform that you cannot wear?  I am not being insulting in any way, but it strikes me as though you want the general membership to bow to your beliefs and not the current regulations.  You are a new, this year, member with the most restrictions being a patron. Patron members may not participate in any activities, duty assignments, or in CAP professional development.  Patrons are not permitted to wear the CAP uniform at any time nor can they be promoted while a Patron.   So what is the real motive here?

Bandwidth intersecting boredom.

And that's why I didn't bother answering his question.